Avodah Mailing List

Volume 26: Number 144

Fri, 24 Jul 2009

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Zelig...@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:43:11 EDT
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Tznius and Gender Roles


FWIW, one can find many Minhjagim that also have at least a tangential  
relationship to Tznius that we don't even think because  they occur on  a 
regular basis and we either don't think about or disregard the rationale of  the 
same. The Sefer Torah, to whom man is compared, is maintained in its own  
private room ,  taken out of and returned without anyone seeing its letters  
and not revealed except for the sole purpose of reading a portion. The Shofar 
 and the Challah knife are also hidden until the last possible  minute  
-for  the performance of a mitzvah. Tzitis, according to many Rishonim and  
Poskim , are also not to be revealed. There is a strong custom to cover the  
Tefilin Shel Rosh and many women have a custom to cover their eyes for a 
private  Tefilah or Techinah at the time of Hadlakas Neros. Many men also wear a 
Talis  over their head so that their kavanah is enhanced without any 
distractions. The  chasan and kallah both spend their first minutes as a couple 
after the the last  of the Sheva Brachos in the Cheder Yichud. The Kohen Gadol 
was able to achieve  his objectives out of the presence of the entirety of 
the Jewish People on Yom  HaKippurim. 
 
WADR, one can find many distinctions between the public and private realm  
in Halacha and Minhagim that have been practiced long before the rise of the 
 issues raised by the feminist critique of halacha and its obvious 
rejection of  gender based differences and the similarly based  critique of  Tznius.
 
 
 
Steve Brizel
_Zeliglaw@aol.com_ (mailto:Zelig...@aol.com) 
**************Dell Deals: Treat yourself to a sweet deal on popular 
laptops! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223096155x1201715982/aol?
redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629
%2D6)
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Message: 2
From: Celejar <cele...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:48:35 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Tzeni'us and gender roles


[Modified from original as per moderator request.]

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:54:48 EDT
T6...@aol.com wrote:

...

> RYG wrote:
>
> "she'ain ha'nashim be'toras edus, she'ha'edus zarich kivun  ve'yishuv
> ha'da'as harbeh" (Hinuch #37). 
>  
> >>>>>
> That is only the Chinuch's opinion -- his personal understanding of the  
> reason for the halacha that women can't be witnesses in court.  His  
> understanding fits with the common beliefs (or prejudices) of his time and place  -- 
> 13th century Spain -- but I don't know if the Gemara's own words suggest  
> any reason. 

I wonder why RnTK seems to consider it legitimate to
casually dismiss statements of Rishonim on no other grounds than that
they are incompatible with modern, progressive sensibilities.  This
is exactly what the liberal denominations of Judaism often argue, that
they concede the authority of Halachah and the Talmud while asserting
the right to reject various opinions of "the Rabbis" as "common beliefs
(or prejudices) of [their] time[s] and place[s]" ...

While I of course mean to cast no aspersions on RnTK's Orthodoxy, she
is basically lending legitimacy here to Open Orthodoxy and its
innovation of the Maharat.  After all, it's pretty clear that there's
no technical infraction of Halachah involved, and the primary objection
of the opponents is that it is contrary to to the traditional Jewish
Hashkafah of gender roles.  But RnTK seems to have no problem with
rejecting Hashkafos of Rishonim that can be attributed to their
particular cultures.

If she feels that the Hinuch is a minority opinion, she can provide
sources for the alternative view, but she has heretofore cited no
dissenting view earlier than her father's.

In fairness, I should note that I am not categorically opposed to the
possibility that particular statements of Rishonim are influenced by
their host cultures - I myself have made such a suggestion here:

http://bdld.info/2008/09/07/abravanel-and-dumas-on-honor/

I am merely protesting what seems to me to be the overly glib manner of
RnTK's remarks.

Yitzhak
--
Bein Din Le'din - http://bdld.info - *** Note change of address ***
http://bdld.info/2009/07/19/by-any-other-url/
A discussion of Hoshen Mishpat, Even Ha'Ezer and other matters



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Message: 3
From: rabbirichwol...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:23:31 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] Tzeni'us and gender roles


Dr. Meir Shinnar
> I would add one thing - that RHS's and your analysis reflect a growing
> trend - the emphasis on the importance of personal perfection rather
> than the needs of the community - which has many other manifestations
> in current haredi society (and reflects RHS"s haredi bent), What is
> unique about this analysis that it is the first that I know off that,
> in viewing the conflict between the needs of the community and that of
> personal perfection - views communal service as intrinsically detrimental
> to the individual - even if, under some circumstances, it becomes muttar -
> rather than potentially posing dangers, depending on the invididual and
> the nature of the service. It is therefore highly morally problematic.

I concur with Dr. Shinar in that I find this trend disturbing

However, one may serve the Tzibbur w/o being highly visible. A classic
example is the Chevra Kadisha that serve with relative anonymity.

-------------------------


the community. True women yoatzot can be very valuable in guiding women
in very touchy issues. And that is the point; it promotes male tzenius.

But how do Maharats improve the community at large -outside of this
specific function?

KT
RRW
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile



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Message: 4
From: "kennethgmil...@juno.com" <kennethgmil...@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:29:17 GMT
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Shabbos Hazzon, Lecha Dodi


R' Rich Wolpoe posted five excellent reasons why it is okay to sing Lecha Dodi to the tune of Eli Tzion on Shabbos Chazon.

For several other reasons, I refer interested readers to R' Baruch
Schwartz's 1997 post in Mail-Jewish, available at http://www.ottm
all.com/mj_ht_arch/v25/mj_v25i64.html

Akiva Miller


____________________________________________________________
Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features.
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Message: 5
From: "kennethgmil...@juno.com" <kennethgmil...@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:10:02 GMT
Subject:
[Avodah] Re A 9 Days Shower - The Navy to the Rescue?


R' Rich Wolpoe wrote:
> Given Bathing for pleasure is restricted before Av 9, either all
> 9 days or at least shavua shehol bo...
> The dilemma - how to stay "clean" w/o stepping on this
> restrction?
[He then describes a certain procedure]
> Thus we have a shower technique that effectively cleans
> while minimizing "hana'ah"

Where is the "dilemma"? Do you see "bathing for pleasure" and "staying clean" as one and the same thing?

Why do you perceive a need to "minimize hana'ah"? As long as one is not
going out of his way to do more than what is needed for effective cleaning,
where do we see a need to also minimize the hanaah?

On a related note, I once asked a certain rav about how to do havdala
during the nine days when there is no child around to drink the wine. The
rav showed me the Rama 551:10 which sanctions drinking the wine oneself,
and does not suggest using chamar medina. I asked, if one is drinking
actual wine, should he limit himself to the minimum shiur (whatever that
might be)? The rav noted that the poskim do not make such a suggestion.

Halevai we should fulfill the halacha as instructed. We don't need to invent new ones.

Akiva Miller


____________________________________________________________
Compete with the big boys.  Click here to find products to benefit your business.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL21
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Message: 6
From: "Rich, Joel" <JR...@sibson.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:03:19 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Brisk - Gerus




An interesting exchange on the "truth" of the Brisker Torah

http://www.hakirah.org/Vol%208%20Forum.pdf

===================================
I don't claim to be on the level of understanding this stuff, but I read
this and come away with the impression of people with different axioms
trying to convince each other of the correctness of their proofs? 
Question: If we were to construct a method of gaining information about the
past (e.g. superman flies far enough away from earth faster than the speed
of light and is able to gather the light rays of earlier events) and found
the Rambam articulating a different explanation than the one that Brisk
articulated of how he understood an issue, would that have any halachic
impact?


She-nir'eh et nehamat Yerushalayim u-binyanah bi-mherah ve-yamenu

KT
Joel Rich
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Message: 7
From: Arie Folger <arie.fol...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:33:59 +0200
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Tzni'us and gender roles


RMB asked:
> Is the benefit a Maharat over a Yoetzet bring to the table the public's
> or in her opportunity to serve G-d in the way the contemporary world
> told her was more valuable? Or the benefit of being at the amud for
> Pesuqei Dezimara rather than behind the mechitzah that of the
> community?

Again, I am not desirous of engaging in this debate, seeing as you
guys are doing a fantastic job of analyzing all the most relevant
angles. However, thanks to RMMakovi, I came accross the following
translated quote from Rav Kook, that matches remarkably what RMB
writes, whithout the tzniut lomdut. One could say that it anticipates
one possible resolution of your debate.

> The great religious Zionist rabbi, A.I. Kook, was certainly no
> egalitarian towards women, but at least he remained cognizant
> of the ethical costs and dangers entailed by traditional inter-
> gender relations:
>
>> The virtue of modesty effects many benefits in the world, and
>> therefore it is deemed important enough to negate other virtues,
>> desirable in themselves, but which, because of man?s passions
>> and weakness of character, might result in a breach of modesty
>> on which the spiritual and material worlds depend. The virtues
>> of love and friendship, in all their expressions, should have been
>> the same for both sexes, but because of the high value of modesty
>> is the virtue of good manners superseded so that the sages once
>> advised a man not to extend a greeting to a married woman
>> (Kiddushin 70b).
>> The modest person recognizes that this is not because of hostility
>> to the feminine sex that he keeps his distance and establishes
>> restraints, but because of a general rule that is sound.

(from: http://tinyurl.com/10curses )

While the above does not deal with tzniut-as-privacy, not even with
tzniut-insofar-as-it-is-gender-neutral, it does state that there are
conflicting values, and that sometimes we sacrifice valid personal
values for the sake of valid public values. Applied here it would
validate the intent and the values behind the intent of, say, a
Maharat, while giving overarching conflicting values to block that
particular avenue.

IOW, Rav Kook tends to deal with the latest twist in your respective
analyses, namely, the possible tension between personal development
and societal contribution. Quietism vs. activism. Some flavors of
Mussar vs. public service.

Disclaimer: I am not at all knowledgeable in Rav Kook's writings,
knowing only a little of it and only third hand, so don0t think I
claim this is Rav Kook's definitive quote on the matter - frankly, I
have no idea. Furthermore, I am not trying to argue for one position
or another. In this debate, I just try to contribute some sources, and
otherwise watch from the sidelines. It is really fascinating. Yasher
koach!

[Email #2. -mi]


Haha, I end up criticizing my own post ... (feels like having some egg
on own face)...

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Arie Folger<arie.fol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> While the above does not deal with tzniut-as-privacy, not even with
> tzniut-insofar-as-it-is-gender-neutral, it does state that there are
> conflicting values, and that sometimes we sacrifice valid personal
> values for the sake of valid public values. Applied here it would
> validate the intent and the values behind the intent of, say, a
> Maharat, while giving overarching conflicting values to block that
> particular avenue.

RMB, a little later in his post I was pegging mine to, states:
> Think of how ironic your description is. If I came in to the conversation
> at this point, I would think that you're saying I want to accomodate the
> individual women's desire for religiosity, and you're the one trying to
> preserve the social structure.

And of course, that was a possible solution I was proposing based on
Rav Kook's statement, a solution RMB rejected. Nonetheless, Rav Kook's
attitude remains interesting. Somehow, I think that acknowledging the
validity of one's aims is considered as more important and supportive
than supoprting the particular way in which these aims are carried
out. So, despite RMB's rejection of such an approach, it may be worth
considering (by him, too). I'd love to see his take on the Rav Kook
quote.

Kol tuv,
-- 
Arie Folger,
Latest blog posts on http://ariefolger.wordpress.com/
* Barukh She-Amar Elucidated
* The Anatomy of a Beracha
* Basic Building Blocks of Jewish Prayer




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Message: 8
From: Meir Shinnar <chide...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:29:19 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Tznius and Gender Roles


> m betzorche
> : tzibbur - the only requirement is that it is be'emunah.
>
> And that it be tzorkhei tzibbur, which is a "good that the particular
> public service brings".
>
> Is the benefit a Maharat over a Yoetzet bring to the table the  
> public's
> or in her opportunity to serve G-d in the way the contemporary world
> told her was more valuable? Or the benefit of being at the amud for
> Pesuqei Dezimara rather than behind the mechitzah that of the  
> community?
>
> : I would add one thing - that RHS's and your analysis reflect a  
> growing
> : trend - the emphasis on the importance of personal perfection rather
> : than the needs of the community...
>
> Think of how ironic your description is. If I came in to the  
> conversation
> at this point, I would think that you're saying I want to accomodate  
> the
> individual women's desire for religiosity, and you're the one trying  
> to
> preserve the social structure.
>
>
> I'm objecting to your choosing one over the other, as though having a
> good reason to be in the public eye means that one isn't workiing  
> against
> one's own hatznei'ah lekhes. Therefore you are advocating going ahead
> with this change without needing to make a real argument that the  
> change
> is worth the cost.
>
> All halachic or mussar terms aside, the Maharat who gets a rabbi-like
> role leading a shul and its congregation will have a harder time  
> walking
> privately with G-d. It's straight psychology, if not the Chinukh's
> constant refrain.
>
> I would also argue (as R Dr Haym Soloveitchik did) that the growing  
> trend,
> outside various forms of neo-Chassidus (be they Carlebachite or Aish
> Kodesh in Woodmere) is toward hyperlegalism and an ignoring of values
> or personal development. You appear to be describing a world so  
> overrun
> with erev Shabbos Jews, they want to ban melakhah on Friday afternoon.
>
> It's not that public service is detrimental even if sometimes muttar,
> it's that it is detrimental in one way even if it can be more  
> constructive
> in another. You are casting a mussar argument into halachic terms. I
> apologized for doing so, and returned to the hutrah-dechuyah  
> distinction
> only to show why it doesn't apply to mussar.
>
> In short, I would argue that the Maharat as an insitution violates
> qadeish es atzmekha bema shemutar lakh (cast into lashon neqeivah).  
> It's
> not assur by the letter of the law, but it's not stepping back from
> something whose middos negatives far outweigh the benefit.
>
1.  The discussion started with a discussion of RHS's psak (not mussar  
schmooz) that a public role inherently required a violation of  
tzeniut, and required a mattir in the form that someone had to to do  
it - and only someone obligated could violate his tzeniut.  We are now  
told that we shouldn't focus on halacha - this is hyperlegalism - this  
is a matter of mussar.  I take it that you are not willing to defend  
the halachic nature of this psak any more.

2.  WRT mussar - there are different values.  Yes, there is a large  
mussar literature on the danger of being seduced by honor and power -  
and the need to train oneself against them.  What there isn't in  
mainstream Jewish literature is the implication that public service is  
something to be avoided unless there is a particular requirement.  The  
danger in this approach is that many aspects of public service - the  
need, and whether one is truly the one who is obligated or only able  
to fulfill that, are not so clear at the beginning - only when it is  
accomplished do we realize how necessary that aspect is, and what a  
loss it would have been if the individual had not stepped forward.   
Your approach, which places individual self fulfillment ahead of the  
needs of the community, is problematic - and without precedent.  I  
would add that while there may be halachot for mussar, the issue of  
who is the appropriate posek for those is not that simple- and the  
rules of psak are not so clear.

3.  You emphasize that the issue is the accomodation of the individual  
women's desire for religiosity, and focus on the maharat as violating  
kadesh et atzmech bema shemutar lakh - viewing it as a form of self  
expression and realization.  This reflects (IMHO) a complete  
misunderstanding of the issue - and reflects, again a bias for the  
individual self perfection over the community.  The issue is quite  
different - and is intrinsically a communal issue - and one of tzorche  
tzibbur (properly understood).  The issue is that we are now dealing  
with a community (which reflects all of its members) which has  
undergone major structural changes - and the issue is of addressing  
the spiritual/religious/halachic needs of that community - where many  
of the women today routinely live, outside the shul, a very public  
life.  Again, what the appropriate response to this may be argued, and  
there are legitimate halachic issues with many of the proposed  
solutions - but not the ones that you are pushing.  The issue of the  
maharat is not the religious expression of the maharat - but giving  
voice to the religious needs of her community.

Meir Shinnar








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Message: 9
From: Meir Shinnar <chide...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:42:32 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Tyni'us and gender roles



On Jul 23, 2009, at 6:33 AM, Arie Folger wrote:

> RMB asked:
>> Is the benefit a Maharat over a Yoetzet bring to the table the  
>> public's
>> or in her opportunity to serve G-d in the way the contemporary world
>> told her was more valuable? Or the benefit of being at the amud for
>> Pesuqei Dezimara rather than behind the mechitzah that of the
>> community?
>
> Again, I am not desirous of engaging in this debate, seeing as you
> guys are doing a fantastic job of analyzing all the most relevant
> angles. However, thanks to RMMakovi, I came accross the following
> translated quote from Rav Kook, that matches remarkably what RMB
> writes, whithout the tzniut lomdut. One could say that it anticipates
> one possible resolution of your debate.
>
>> The great religious Zionist rabbi, A.I. Kook, was certainly no
>> egalitarian towards women, but at least he remained cognizant
>> of the ethical costs and dangers entailed by traditional inter-
>> gender relations:
>>
>>> The virtue of modesty effects many benefits in the world, and
>>> therefore it is deemed important enough to negate other virtues,
>>> desirable in themselves, but which, because of man?s passions
>>> and weakness of character, might result in a breach of modesty
>>> on which the spiritual and material worlds depend. The virtues
>>> of love and friendship, in all their expressions, should have been
>>> the same for both sexes, but because of the high value of modesty
>>> is the virtue of good manners superseded so that the sages once
>>> advised a man not to extend a greeting to a married woman
>>> (Kiddushin 70b).
>>> The modest person recognizes that this is not because of hostility
>>> to the feminine sex that he keeps his distance and establishes
>>> restraints, but because of a general rule that is sound.
>
> (from: http://tinyurl.com/10curses )
>
> While the above does not deal with tzniut-as-privacy, not even with
> tzniut-insofar-as-it-is-gender-neutral, it does state that there are
> conflicting values, and that sometimes we sacrifice valid personal
> values for the sake of valid public values. Applied here it would
> validate the intent and the values behind the intent of, say, a
> Maharat, while giving overarching conflicting values to block that
> particular avenue.
>
> IOW, Rav Kook tends to deal with the latest twist in your respective
> analyses, namely, the possible tension between personal development
> and societal contribution. Quietism vs. activism. Some flavors of
> Mussar vs. public service.
In this case,Rav Kook's issue of tzniut is one that follows RCL's  
category of pritzut - the issue of modesty being because of man's  
passions and weakness of character, rather than the public/private  
nature that RMB is advocating.

In my discussion with RMB, the issue has not been whether one could  
formulate a theoretical basis of opposition between tzniut and being a  
public servant - clearly one can - nor whether there is a literature  
on the dangers of public service.  The issue of conflicting values of  
the individual needs and communal needs can be easilty stated.  The  
question is whether that theoretical basis of opposition has actually  
been expressed into the form that RMB and RHS have expressed - and I  
(and others) have argued that it hasn't, and that RMB and RHS's  
formulation is an innovation with dangerous consequences, and against  
the traditional literature.

One could formulate an opposition to public roles for women on the  
basis of tzniut as representing the pritzut category - which would be  
more of what RAY Kook is doing - but then the issue becomes the  
general social role of the woman in the MO community.

Meir Shinnar


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Message: 10
From: Yitzchok Levine <Larry.Lev...@stevens.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:45:42 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] The "TIDE" of Samson Raphael Hirsch


I have posted  Dr. Mordechai Breuer's pamphlet The 
"Torah-Im-Derekh-Eretz" of Samson Raphael Hirsch that appeared in 1970 at

http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/rsrh/m_breuer_tide.pdf

This pamphlet is out of print. However, Mrs. Meta Bechhofer, a 
daughter of Rav Dr. Yosef Breuer, ZT"L, was kind enough to let me 
borrow her copy.

I have not as yet had a chance to carefully read this 60 page 
document. However, based on what I have looked at, this is a must 
read for anyone who wants to really understand what TIDE is.
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Message: 11
From: rabbirichwol...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:20:59 +0000
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Re A 9 Days Shower - The Navy to the Rescue?



Plz post

Akiva

"Why do you perceive a need to "minimize hana'ah"? As long as one is not
going out of his way to do more than what is needed for effective cleaning,
where do we see a need to also minimize the hanaah?"

Why do you suppose that posqim are makpid to not wash negel vasser on tisha b'av and yom kippur?

Either not at all (rambam)

Or
Not beyond the knuckles (rov posqim)?

If the extra hana'ah is deminumus then why bother?

Shma mina that the hana'ah (ideally) should be minimal
Shma minah

KT
RRW



Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile



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Message: 12
From: Eli Turkel <elitur...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:15:01 +0300
Subject:
[Avodah] we live in good times


From an article by R. Aharon Katz R. Kollel in ar Ilan U and Rav of a
shul in Ramat Gan

One of the worst disasters in Jewish history is the massacres of
Chelminiski tach-tat 1648-1649.
The stories of the Cossack atrocities can compete even with the Shoah.
In this case there
are stories of women who killed themselves rather than marrying
Cossacks. One "interesting"
story is of a woman who convinced her groom to be that she could not
be harmed by bullets.
So to test her out he shot her in the head.

There is an old machkloket rishonim if one is allowed to die for
kiddush hashem when according
to halakha one should commit the sin and not die. This debate is
continued by early
rishonim like the Bach and Schach. R. Yoseph Dahan in Yoef Ometz (a
generation before
Chelminiski) recommends learning the halachot of kiddush hashem since
they are only theoretical
like korbanot. A contemporary was the Shelah who introduced a bracha
for dying on kiddush hashem.
His major discussion however is that one should think that he is ready
to die al kiddush hashem
and it counts as if he did. The general tenor is that this is
atheoretical discussion.
More explicit is the Maharal from Prague (same time period ) in
derashot on the Torah. He divides
 the world into three time periods. The first period ended with the
destruction of the Temple.
The second period "doro shel shmad" follows the destruction with the
decrees of thwe Romans.
His own generation (again shortly before Chelminski) is the third
period where there are no
longer any antisemitic decrees. The nations of the world treat us like
a husband and wif who have
no secrets between them and a disagreement leads only to a divorce.

A generation later the Jews of Poland were decimated and after the
rabbis introduced several
decrees including a fast on the 20th of Sivan. This did not extend to
Lithuania. Nevertheless the Schach
from Vilna writes that he personally undertook to fast. There was also
a decree to never return
to the Ukraine which was later lifted.

Some have a custom to read about the various disasters of the first
crusade, Chelminiski and the Shoah during the 9 days.

A lesson to all those who think it can never happen again


-- 
Eli Turkel



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Message: 13
From: rabbirichwol...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:17:04 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] Daf BM 91 Rav Ashi's Pesaq


In preparing for giving the DAF this Shabbos, I found an interesting
passage ...

Bavli: Bava Metzia 91B
Re: mating diverse species - kilayim.

Rav Ashi said: ...Inquired of me regarding this Matter:

What about placing a species of its own kind and with a different kind
in the same animal pen.

Do we say that it is drawn to its own kind (implying permitted)
OR
Perhaps even then it is NOT permitted?

Rav Ashi's Pesaq:
I ruled for them prohibited - which is not according to the halachah -
because of the lax observances of slaves .."

Thus, Rav Ashi tailored his pesaq - even against the Halachah - in order
to deal with the particular people involved.

Shabbat Shalom
RRW
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile




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Message: 14
From: Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:46:24 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] we live in good times


Eli Turkel wrote:

> A generation later the Jews of Poland were decimated and after the
> rabbis introduced several
> decrees including a fast on the 20th of Sivan. This did not extend to
> Lithuania. Nevertheless the Schach
> from Vilna writes that he personally undertook to fast.

The Shach was not personally affected?  I realise that the story about
his daughter is fictional, but I assumed that at least the background
facts, that he survived the massacres but was made homeless and lost
family members, was true.  Wasn't it?


-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
z...@sero.name                 eventually run out of other people?s money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher



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Message: 15
From: rabbirichwol...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:34:40 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] Honest Weights and Amaleik


Background:
My former Congregation in Washington Heights Inwood consisted of
German-Jewish survivors. In fact it was proverbially "built upon the
rubble of Krystalnach". Amaleik and Naziism was a very sensitive topic
3 times a year:
    Parshat Zachor
    Beshalach
And
    Ki Teitze

Note in Devarim (mishneh Torah) we darshan "semuchot" (juxta-positions)

This "mini-catechism" below is derived from my drashot on Ki Teitze or
Parshot Zachor over the years.

This is certainly something to ponder for this Shabbat Hazzon!


------------------------



Q: In Ki Teitze, Why does the parsha of Amaleik follow the mitzva of
honest weights and measures?

A: To teach us that when Israel practices its business dishonestly,
Amaleik (anti-Semites) may come out and attack us.

Q: This sounds fairly harsh! Does this mean that Dishonest Jewish
Businessmen create "anti-Semitism"?

A: Not as I see it. Rather, the anti-Semites always lurk in the
"woodwork". And then, if/when Israel is dishonest in business,
God's Divine protection is thereby withdrawn. This in turn triggers
anti-Semitic "action.". IOW the anti-Semites always exist in an inert
state - until Israel violates Honest Weights and Measures. Only then
Amaleik (or Nazis) rear their ugly heads and attack us.

------------------------



May we do Teshuva so as to merit the restoration of the Divine Magen
Avraham and the Divine Magen David.

GS
RRW
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile


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