Avodah Mailing List

Volume 40: Number 13

Thu, 24 Feb 2022

< Previous Next >
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Prof. L. Levine
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 23:04:10 +0000
[Avodah] 21 Rulings of Rav Elyashiv zt?l on Kol Isha

From https://vinnews.com/2022/02/20/20-rulings-of-rav-elyashiv-ztl-on-kol-isha/?utm_source=feedburner&;utm_medium=email
21 Rulings of Rav Elyashiv zt?l on Kol Isha - VINnews<https://vinnews.com/2022/02/20/20-rulings-of-rav-elyashiv-ztl-on-kol-isha/?utm_source=feedburner&;utm_medium=email>
By Rabbi Yair Hoffman for 5tjt.com In a new sefer that was just released
entitled ?Yevakshu MiPihu- Hilchos Tefillah Vol. III? there are hundreds of
new rulings from Rav Elyashiv zt?l that have never been printed.  The
author is Rav Zelig Kosovsky who was present with Rav Elyashiv for over 20
years.	The sefer has [?]

In a new sefer that was just released entitled ?Yevakshu MiPihu- Hilchos
Tefillah Vol. III? there are hundreds of new rulings from Rav Elyashiv zt?l
that have never been printed.  The author is Rav Zelig Kosovsky who was
present with Rav Elyashiv for over 20 years.  The sefer has the backing of
Rav Elyashiv?s family members.	What follows are some highlights from
chapter twenty-nine in the sefer.  Some of the questions were combined
together and re-organized by this author (RYH).

  1.  It is permitted to hear the voice of a woman who is speaking.
  2.  It is not permitted to hear the voice of a woman singing unless two
  factors are present: 1] He is accustomed to hear her singing and 2] He
  became accustomed to hear her singing in a permitted manner. In other
  words if he only became accustomed to her voice by hearing it in a
  forbidden manner it is still forbidden for him to hear it.  It is
  forbidden even regarding a Baal Teshuvah who became accustomed to hear a
  voice b?issur.
  3.  He may hear his daughter?s voice or his sister?s voice if he was
  accustomed to hear it. This is permitted lechatchilah. Even if she is
  sixteen and he is twenty.
  4.  Even though he may hear his daughter or his sister singing ? he may
  not recite the shaim Hashem, psukim, or dvarim sheb?kedusha while hearing
  them sing. He may, however, sing zmiros with them as long as he sings
  ?Hashem? instead of Hashem?s actual Name.
  5.  A sister is permitted to sing while cleaning even if her brother is unaccustomed to hearing his sister?s voice since he does not pay attention to it.
  6.  If a sister is married, however, it is proper to avoid hearing her sing.
  7.  He may not hear his wife singing if she is Niddah.
  8.  Regarding an adult daughter, one can assume that the father is used to her voice.
  9.  In regard to the reading of the Ramah in OC 75:3 ? that if he is used
  to her voice it is not considered an ervah ? the reference is to her
  singing voice not her speaking voice.  When Rav Chaim Kanievsky (Shoneh
  Halachos 75:25) writes that it is her speaking voice, this is for chumrah
  but not for halacha.
  10. Singing in front of a brother-in-law is forbidden. At age seven it is forbidden ? between four and seven there is a hiddur not to do so.
  11. The age in which a girl?s voice should be considered ervah is
  unclear. Certainly, three or four would be permitted.  It would appear
  that by age seven or eight there may be a concern that it may lead to
  improper thoughts.  In terms of chinuch it is not proper for girls of
  such an age to be singing in front of men.
  12. When one is (forced to be) present when a woman is singing he should
  focus on other matters so that he will not be hearing her voice. If a man
  lives next to a playgroup or Gan ? and the teacher or Morah is singing ?
  he should not focus on her singing and there is no prohibition.
  13. An alef-bais Rebbe who enters a playgroup where a woman is singing to
  other children in the other corner, and he has no other place to go, may
  teach ? he should not focus on her singing and there is no prohibition.
  14. Someone who lives next to a girls? seminary where there is singing
  and he needs to bentch ? he should not focus on the singing and there is
  no prohibition.
  15. Someone whose wife is singing while putting the kids to bed and she
  is in a state of Niddah ? he should not focus on her singing and there is
  no prohibition of him hearing her.
  16. A husband may not even listen to a tape of his own wife singing if
  she is in a state of Niddah ? even if it was recorded when she was
  tehorah, as this can bring one to hirhur.
  17. An adopted boy may not hear the singing of a sister unrelated to him biologically.
  18. Even old men are forbidden to hear a woman sing.
  19. A taped female voice is technically not considered kol isha, however, if it can come to cause the listener to have improper thoughts it is forbidden.
  20. A Kiruv organization may create a tape of daughters singing in order to be mekarev their irreligious fathers since this is technically not Kol Isha.
  21. A woman may sing, record, and sell songs in a store for girls or
  women. She need not concern herself that men might listen since this is
  technically not kol isha.


Listen to the VINnews podcast on:

| Spotify<https://open.spotify.com/show/5EuH8BLLp0ocYUDcqZRWYq>
| Google Podcasts<https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly92MS5qZXdpc2hwb2RjYXN0cy5mbS9yc3MvMjU0>
| Stitcher<https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/jewish-podcasts/vos-iz-neias-with-rabbi-yair-hoffman>
| Podbean<https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/cv2ze-178314/Vos-Iz-Neias-with-Rabbi-Yair-Hoffman-Podcast>
| Amazon<https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/57e69ab1-08f5-4e27-9cb0-2c75b25158f6/Vos-Iz-Neias-with-Rabbi-Yair-Hoffman>

Follow VosIzNeias For Breaking News Updates
Join The Email List

Comment Login with

Most Voted
[Just asking]
Just asking
16 hours ago

What about all the YouTube song videos of women singing? It is not in a separate store for women.

View Replies (2)
11 hours ago

it seems that the problem is focusing on the singing voice, not the mere hearing it.

8 hours ago

This is about Rav Elyashiv?s psak. But the most famous teshuva on Kol Isha
is from the Sridei Aish. The isur is only one woman singing, but more than
one together is Trei kolei ainom nishmoyim. Furthermore, in general, here
in America, the cut off age is not 4 or 7 but Bas Mitzva, below that age is
considered mutar.

View Replies (1)

  *   [https://vinnews.com/wp-content/uploads/wordpress-popular-posts/443360-featured-85x85.jpg]
  Ponzi Schemer Bernie Madoff?s Sister, Husband Found Dead<https://vinnews.com/2022/02/20/ponzi-schemer-bernie-madoffs-sister-husband-found-dead/>
  *   [https://vinnews.com/wp-content/uploads/wordpress-popular-posts/443396-featured-85x85.jpg]
  After Significant Price Hike, Rabbi Aviner Says: Don?t Buy Hamantaschen
  This Year<https://vinnews.com/2022/02/21/rabbi-aviner-dont-buy-hamantaschen-this-year/>
  *   [https://vinnews.com/wp-content/uploads/wordpress-popular-posts/443403-featured-85x85.jpg]
  Watch: Israeli Rabbi Visits Tehran?s Bazaar, Taking Selfies While Talking
  *   [https://vinnews.com/wp-content/uploads/wordpress-popular-posts/443386-featured-85x85.jpg]
  US Says Russia Closer To Invading Ukraine, Agrees To Meeting<https://vinnews.com/2022/02/20/us-says-russia-closer-to-invading-ukraine-agrees-to-meeting/>
  *   [https://vinnews.com/wp-content/uploads/wordpress-popular-posts/443447-featured-85x85.jpg]
  Trump?s Social Media App Launches Year After Twitter Ban<https://vinnews.com/2022/02/21/trumps-social-media-app-launches-year-after-twitter-ban/>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20220221/255ff8ef/attachment-0001.html>

Go to top.

Message: 2
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:39:42 -0500
Re: [Avodah] [Areivim] What is the proper procedure for

On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 05:33:16PM +0000, Prof. L. Levine via Areivim wrote:
> From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis
>> Q. What is the proper procedure for putting on shoes?

Since he posted to Areivim, I will include the answer in full before
    A. The Gemara (Shabbos 61a) records a dispute about the proper order
    for putting on shoes. Rebbi Yochanan said the left shoe is put on
    first. However, a Beraisa states that the right shoe should be put on
    first. Therefore, Rav Yosef said, one may do it either way. Rav Nachman
    Bar Yitzchok said that a God-fearing person should follow both opinions
    by putting on the right shoe first but tying the left shoe first. Rav
    Ashi reported that he saw Rav Kahana putting on his shoes and he was not
    careful. The Rishonim dispute which opinion we follow. The Rif, Rambam,
    Rosh and most Rishonim omit this halacha. Apparently, they follow the
    ruling of Rav Yosef and Rav Ashi, that you may put on your shoes whichever
    way you want. However, the Tur and Shulchan Aruch follow the opinion of
    Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchok that you should put on your right shoe first
    but tie your left shoe first, and we follow the opinion of the Shulchan
    Aruch. The Taz (2:3) writes that fundamentally the Tur and Shulchan Aruch
    also agree that the halacha follows the majority of Rishonim. However,
    since it is possible to avoid all uncertainty by tying your left shoe
    first, it is proper for a God-fearing person to do so. Therefore, the
    Taz concludes that if there is a difficulty, one may put on their shoes
    in any order.

>               However, the Tur and Shulchan Aruch follow the opinion of
> Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchok that you should put on your right shoe first
> but tie your left shoe first, and we follow the opinion of the Shulchan
> Aruch...

But to answer as to what to actually do (assuming you aren't from an Edah
that favors the Rambam over these sources), they add that for an itur
yad, our left hand is our "yemin". So, you put on the shoe on your more
coordinated side first, but tie the other shoe first (if it needs tying).

Or: you put on the shoe on the side that does more mitzvos first, and
you tie the one on the side where you tie your tefillin first (if you
are male or if otherwise were to wear tefillin).

> Indeed, when did shoes start having laces?

Greeks and Roman sandals were nearly all sole and straps. Archeologists
found shoes with laces they dated back to over 7,000 years ago at
Areni-1 and when they found Otzi the iceman. Tying one's shoes is older
than Yiddishkeit, for sure.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger                 Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
Author: Widen Your Tent      and it flies away.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                          - Rav Yisrael Salanter

I note that this message does not deal with case when one is putting on shoes that have straps, or are slipons or have velcro instead of laces.

Indeed, when did shoes start having laces?

A google search for "When did shoes start having laces out?" yielded

Shoe laces as we know them today did not exist. In 1889, American producers
created the hard edged laces that we use today. Metal eyelets for shoes and
boots were introduced in 1889.

-- MIME section 1 END --------------------
-- MIME section 2 text/plain --------------------
Areivim mailing list
-- MIME section 2 END --------------------
-- MIME email END --------------------

Go to top.

Message: 3
From: Joel Rich
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 22:56:16 -0500
[Avodah] measures

As part of the Gruss Kollel shiur with Rav Bednarsh, I asked about his
statement concerning why measures (in gzeirot) don?t change with changing
reality. He articulated three possible approaches:
The first was an extension of the Chazon Ish, who held that the definition
of treifa was fixed by the state of veterinary medicine at the end of the
200 years of Torah (Chazon Ish E"H Hilchot Ishut 27:20). I would add the
possibility that this approach could be a subset of a theory that even when
there are reasons given, a legal system may choose to decouple the reason
from the measure and therefore, even if the reason changes, the measure

The second approach is that when the rabbis gave a nigleh reason for the
measure there were also other nistar reasons that we?re not privy to,
therefore the measures don?t change

The third approach was that a properly constituted Sanhedrin would change
the measure. They wouldn?t frequently change because legal systems tend to
be conservative but when the reason changes the measures should change.

Guess which he likes, which I like and tell me which you like?

Joel Rich
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20220222/23883a6c/attachment-0001.html>

Go to top.

Message: 4
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 11:16:48 -0500
[Avodah] Copper and Silver Adanim

Something I noticed on the train while being maavir sedra. (Yes,
I should have seen it a couple of weeks ago. But then, there were
numerous years I have been missing this as well.)

When people design a building, if they aren't being symmetric, they put
most of the aesthetics in the facade. The fanciest columns, nice doors,
window frames, etc...

So it struck me when being maavir sedra that the adanim on the walls
are silver, but the ones on the pillars in front were copper.

Was there a simple aethetic reason, like what matched the masach fabric?

Was it a message being made by the contrarian-ness, such as the point of
the aesthetic was how it looks from the inside, not to a third party. Like
the way the pretty yeri'os were covered from the outside by oros eilim
me'adamim. Even if there was yet tachash on top, the sides were red and
the keruvim on most of the yerios were only visible from the inside. (A
bit must have hung over the masach in the front.)

And if so, what's the message? Being moved by aethetics is a human
thing. According to the Rambam, a consequence of the eitz hada'as is that
we can confuse pretty with good or important. "Ki tov ha'eitz lemaakhal,
veta'avah hu le'einayim, vevenchmad ha'eitz lehaskil" (from Bereishis 3:6)


Micha Berger                 "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
http://www.aishdas.org/asp    'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
Author: Widen Your Tent       'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                   - Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l


Avodah mailing list



Send Avodah mailing list submissions to

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

You can reach the person managing the list at

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."

A list of common acronyms is available at
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)

< Previous Next >