Avodah Mailing List

Volume 35: Number 7

Fri, 13 Jan 2017

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Zev Sero
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 08:27:15 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Davening at the Kosel (was Need for a Mehitza)


On 09/01/17 05:10, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
>>
> Let me raise another issue about davening at the Kosel,  namely,  the
> fact that the entire Kosel Plaza is outside.

We've already covered this.  As *your own source* says, there is no 
problem davening outdoors, so long as it isn't an open area.   The kosel 
plaza is not an open area, therefore there is no problem.

-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all



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Message: 2
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 11:16:09 -0500
Subject:
[Avodah] Rabbi Y. Y. Jacobson's Speech at Recent Torah u


The entertaining, scholarly, and interesting talk given recently by 
Rabbi Jacobson dealing with Chinuch HaBonim at


https://vimeo.com/197826165


is, IMO, one of the most moving that I have heard in many years. It 
is well-worth watching.


YL



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Message: 3
From: Adar Jay
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 09:37:30 -0700
Subject:
[Avodah] M. Cohen


Couldn't access  r.Moshe Shapiro's thoughts on "eilu v'eilu, etc. "





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Message: 4
From: Joshua Meisner
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 10:01:48 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] The challenge of Torah U' Madda for our time


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Message: 5
From: saul newman
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 12:10:22 -0800
Subject:
[Avodah] The challenge of Torah U' Madda for our time


r Micha  ,  could  you please  explain  what  is  'post-Modern' O  ?  is
that anything that developed in the O world in the last 30 years?
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Message: 6
From: Zev Sero
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 08:23:44 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Possibly the first film of the Kotel, 1911


On 08/01/17 13:04, Prof. Levine via Areivim wrote:
> Truth be told there was no mechitza at the Kosel until after 1967 as far
> as I know.  However,  there apparently were no minyanim there then, at
> least this is what I was told.  People davened privately.

Certainly not true.  There were minyanim, and there was a constant fight 
to erect a mechitzah, but unfortunately the government forcibly 
prevented it.  B'leis breirah people davened without one.  As soon as it 
was possible to put one up, it was done.  Ein donin efshar mishe'i efshar.

-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all




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Message: 7
From: Harry Maryles
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2017 18:34:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Possibly the first film of the Kotel, 1911


On Sunday, January 8, 2017 12:04 PM, Prof. Levine <larry62...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Truth be told there was no mechitza at the Kosel until after 1967 as
> far as I know. However, there apparently were nominyanim there then,
> at least this is what I was told. People davened privately.

> Can anyone verify this?

You don't need a Mechitza if you are not in a Shul. Kedushas Beis
Hakenesses does not apply. There are for exampe no Mechitzos in hotels or
catering halls -?when?at a wedding the men will gather to Daven Mincha or
Maariv. There are women in the same room walking about all over in those
circumstances.

The question is whether the Kotel Plaza is a Shul or not. At least whether
that part of it on that is on the outside That is still unresolved in my
mind.?(Not that part that is on the inside - that apparently IS a shul).

HM



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Message: 8
From: Saul Guberman
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 16:59:54 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Prayer for the Government


>
> On Mon, Jan 09, 2017 at 07:49:47AM -0500, Akiva Miller via Areivim wrote:
> : I have never understood the objection to these tefilos. Even under the
> most
> : hostile of governments - or *especially* under the most hostile -
> shouldn't
> : we ask Hashem to guide them and turn their hearts to be good, so that
> they
> : will be deserving of our thanks and and allegiance? Is it really so
> : difficult to understand these tefilos in that manner?
> :
> : Akiva Miller
>

 I have heard a few different objections to the prayer that is in the
Artscroll siddur:

1) It is really for monarchies with klutzy lines thrown in for the
President and other officials.
2) In a democracy there is no reason for chanifa of the officials.
3) In a democracy, if the elected official is harming our interests, there
is no reason to pray for their welfare, it is praying contrary to our
interests.

I don't think anyone objects to praying for Hashem to guide them.  Those
who object do not see that sentiment as the ikar of the current iteration
of the prayer.

Saul
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Message: 9
From: Isaac Balbin
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 09:00:35 +1100
Subject:
[Avodah] Sous-vide cooking on Shabbos


We have one. They are very useful. A Rav I know sent me a message asking if
I knew of any Psak Din. This is in relation to Shabbos where it may have
been going from Friday morning, say, only to be ready for the Shabbos Meal.

The two things that immediately came into my head were Hatmono and Shehiya.
In regards Hatmono I thought a hetter might be that the hot water (Yad
Soledes) could be used for a cup of tea, or perhaps putting in a soup stock
cube would give you a side effect.

I then went to the internet and found a very recent short Shiur from Rav
Aryeh Leibowitz on the issue. It was not conclusive but informative. It
appeared that Rav Belsky zl considered Shehiya and Mori VRabbi Rav
Schachter *appeared* to be Meikel.

I rang Rav Schachter but there was no answer. I will ring again soon.

Does anyone have any responses to this question from Poskim of note?

Thanks in advance.

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Message: 10
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 17:45:08 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Prayer for the Government


On Mon, Jan 09, 2017 at 04:59:54PM -0500, Saul Guberman via Avodah wrote:
: I don't think anyone objects to praying for Hashem to guide them.  Those
: who object do not see that sentiment as the ikar of the current iteration
: of the prayer.

But since the current iteration is a child of Chazal's, and Chazal
saw the requirement in terms of needing some source of law-and-order,
I would think that this common perception is simply in error.

After all, we already noted R' Chanina segan hakohanim lived during
Malkhus Edom, a/k/a Malkhus haRecha'ah when he said the words quoted in
Avos 3:2.

We have traditions of tefillos for the state that date back to Worms
11th cent and the Cairo Geniza, and then the Kol Bo and the Avudraham
(both late 13th cent). Although it does not appear in Seder Rav Amram
Gaon nor Machzor Vitri.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha



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Message: 11
From: Saul Guberman
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 18:45:05 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Prayer for the Government


On Jan 9, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:
> But since the current iteration is a child of Chazal's, and Chazal
> saw the requirement in terms of needing some source of law-and-order,
> I would think that this common perception is simply in error.

> After all, we already noted R' Chanina segan hakohanim lived during
> Malkhus Edom, a/k/a Malkhus haRecha'ah when he said the words quoted in
> Avos 3:2.

I agree. I find that these sentiments for change coincide with the current
election cycle. I do not recall this happening for other Presidents
who were not good for our interests. I have called people out on both
sides about this. It reminds me of when Israel gave away Gaza. People
stopped saying the prayer for the medinah. Not that the medina does not
need prayers. They could not deal with the fact that they were praying
for officials that they hated. It is the hatred that comes through. The
smoke screen, legitimatization, is the excuses of Chanifah and malchut.

Saul



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Message: 12
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:23 -0500
Subject:
[Avodah] Archeological Evidence -- The Maximalists Win Again


From the Weekly Standard
<http://www.weeklystandard.com/in-hezekiahs-tunnel/article/2006193>

    ... The bible refers to the despoiling of a shrine to Ba'al: the
    King (not Hezekiah but Jehu, a slightly earlier king of Israel)
    "broke down the house of Ba'al, and made it a draught-house"--i.e.,
    made it a bathroom.

    This was assumed by many to have been a metaphor. But a few weeks
    ago, excavations at Lacish found remnants of a pagan altar room, and
    inside it, a smashed altar, and beside that, seals of Hezekiah, and
    beside those, in perfect condition, an unmistakable stone-hewn privy.
    ...

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The same boiling water
mi...@aishdas.org        that softens the potato, hardens the egg.
http://www.aishdas.org   It's not about the circumstance,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      but rather what you are made of.


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