Avodah Mailing List
Volume 03 : Number 061
Sunday, May 23 1999
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:06:36 +0300 (IDT)
From: Eli Turkel <turkel@math.tau.ac.il>
Subject: [none]
Subject: israeli elections
Working in Tel Aviv University, one of the bastions of secularism
and anti-dati feelings in israel I wanted to give the readers an idea
of the depth of hatred that exists here and there reasons.
Please NO FLAMES these are not my opinions and I am currently involved
in a nasty fight against the anti-shas crowd here. I present their side
for information only not because I agree with it.
Furthermore, in a panel session of advertising specialists on election
eve the charedi representative admitted that from the PR viewpoint the
recent activities of the charedim have been a disaster.
The general push of the chardei political parties is what would be
described as power politics. They get things done by threatening to
resign from a narrow coalition - not by trying to justify their demands.
All israelis are used to the fact that the budget demands are not discussed
all year round based on their needs but are presented the last night before
the vote with the statement either we get what we demand or the government
falls. Similarly, Netanyahu announced a compromize on the Reform issue
only to publically retract the next day after receiving threats to bring down
the government.
I further stress that these issues have been discussed ad nauseum
in the Israeli press as has the statement that Charedim lied at exit
polls as so there is no question of lashon hara.
1. The biggest fight I get is about budgets for yeshivot, kollelim
and various fictitious instituitons.
There complaints fall into 2 categories
a) basic - why should the State pay for ten of thousands of people
to sit and learn. If it is important enough they should do it on
their own. Most would not object to certain top students being funded
but why everyone who wants?
b) practical - The budget is finite. Every shekel paid to a kollel
comes from other budgets. The health system is a disaster and
Netanyahu kept on insisting their was no money to fix it. Same thing
for roads etc. A touchy topic on campus is university fees - why
should university students who went through the army have to pay
while kollel boys who did not serve get a stipend?
2. Army service - My personal opinion is that this is less of an issue
then it seems. Very few secularists really want to see thousands of
charedim in the army. There are already complaints of too many
kipot serugot in the officer corp and the last thing they really
want are charedi officers. The one Charedi nachal group that exists
has all sorts of special "deals" and the army is not anxious to expand it.
On the other hand some rabbanim (according to reports lead by R. S.
Auerbach) are fighting to eliminate the concept of the charedi nachal.
How this squares with the push of army service for charedim is another
PR problem. It is especially acute since Shas does not see this as
a fighting issue.
3. Reform/Conservative movements - Again this is not an issue that concerns
the Israeli on the street - It is one that Meretz pushes.
On the other hand it seems clear that some sort of compromize along
the Neeman commission will this time be approved.
4. Supreme Court
Again within the campus this is a hot issue. There was a conference
in Tel Aviv University several months ago including many major law
professors and other public people. Almost all agreed that the
Supremem Court was too activist and had gone well beyond its bounds.
On the other hand each started his speech that he disagreed with
the charedi approach. Again it comes down to PR. When R Ovadiah
Yosef talks he calls the judges names. It has become a fight of
Charedim versus the court rather than specifics that the court is
wrong. The end result is that all secularists whether they agree or
not are forced to defend the court even when they dont want to.
5. Religious laws - this has almost become a nonissue as the charedim
have basically lost. The shops are open on shabbat. The one change will
be to legitimize it.
Other minor irritants to the chilonim are symbols like the Agudah
minister being a vice-minister rather a minister. In the unlikely
cicumstance that Agudah (yahadut haTorah) enters the coalition and get a
ministerial position I can guarantee that Barak will not agree to this
game.
I again plead that I not receive flames as these do not represent my
personal beliefs. I am already getting enough flames within the university
for objecting to the anti-shas campaign of hate being waged here.
Kol Tuv,
Eli Turkel
Go to top.
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 08:49:11 EDT
From: Joelirich@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Yeshivat har etzion-virtual bet medrash-Summer Session 5759
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A List of shiurim follows- delete if you're not interested but I thought some
might not be aware of this valuable resource
Kol Tuv,
Joel Rich
n a message dated 5/23/99 7:00:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
office@etzion.org.il writes:
<< Dear Subscriber,
This week is inter-session in the VBM. The summer session
will begin next week.
NEW COURSES FOR THE SUMMER:
YHE-Kings
Jewish Political Theory, by Rav Mosheh Lichtenstein.
This is a repeat of the shiur offered in 97-98.
NEW SESSIONS FOR EXISTING COURSES:
We will begin new sessions - starting from the introductory
shiur - for the following courses:
YHE-Develop
Developing a Torah Personality, Coordinated by Rav
Ronnie Ziegler.
YHE-18
The Meaning of the Shemona Esrei, by Rav Ezra Bick.
THOSE WHO ARE ALREADY SUBSCRIBED TO YHE-18 AND
YHE-DEVELOP NEED NOT DO ANYTHING; THE COURSE
WILL RECOMMENCE IN THE FALL.
WE ARE CONTINUING THE FOLLOWING SHIURIM
THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER:
YHE-Parsha
YHE-Intparsha
YHE-Pesachim
YHE-Bavakama
YHE-Shabbat
YHE-Sichot
YHE-Kitzur
This is a good time to recommend the VBM to your friends or
find a virtual chavruta (study-partner). Please send this
announcement to someone who has not yet had the opportunity
to join in our international Torah community.
Subscription Instructions:
1. An automatic webform is available. Please see
http://www.vbm-torah.org/howto.htm
2. By e-mail
Write to lists@vbm-torah.org
[that's L I S T S]
with the message
subscribe <listname>
Example: To subscribe to yhe-kings, send the message:
subscribe yhe-kings
A full description of our shiurim follows:
TORAH TEXT STUDY:
PARASHAT HASHAVUA - THE WEEKLY TORAH PORTION
List name: YHE-Parsha
Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
Coordinator: R. Ezra Bick
An analysis of the parasha, incorporating innovative
approaches as well as traditional commentaries. The course
has an associated moderated discussion list - YHE-Par.D -
for comments, questions, and discussion of each shiur.
This list must be subscribed to separately.
INTRODUCTION TO PARASHAT HASHAVUA
List name: YHE-IntParsha
Instructors: R. Jonathan Mishkin and R. Alex Israel
A weekly examination of selected portions of the
week's Torah reading with an emphasis on understanding the
textual problems and the underlying meaning. The course is
geared for beginners but is open to all levels.
THEMES AND STRUCTURE IN PARASHAT HASHAVUA
List name: YHE-Parsha.ML
Instructor: R. Menachem Leibtag
A revised version of our original Parashat Ha-shavua
series, with special attention to issues of structure in
parshiot and the overall theme of each sefer.
TEHILLIM - THE BOOK OF PSALMS
List name: YHE-Tehillim
Instructor: R. Avi Baumol
Each installment in this series attempts to examine
the thematic unity and literary techniques of one mizmor.
Its goal is to present a message embedded in each psalm
which can help us understand our relationship with our
Creator.
TALMUDIC METHODOLOGY
List name: YHE-Metho
Instructor: R. Moshe Taragin
A shiur using a different talmudic topic each week to
illustrate the nature of rabbinic legal thinking,
emphasizing the analytic methods practiced in modern
Yeshivot.
GEMARA PESACHIM
List name: YHE-Pesachim
Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
Coordinator: R. Yair Kahn
Designed for students studying Talmud on their own,
devoting a number of hours a week, the shiur will include
sources, assistance in preparation and a yeshiva-level
analysis of what has been learned during the week. A
faculty member is available for questions. Level: Beginner
GEMARA BAVA KAMA
List name: YHE-BavaKama
Instructors: R. Moshe Taragin
Designed for students studying Talmud on their own,
devoting a number of hours a week, the shiur will include
sources for preparation and a yeshiva-level analysis of
what has been learned during the week. A faculty member is
available for questions. Level: Advanced
TOPICS IN HALAKHA
List name: YHE-Halak
Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
Coordinator: R. Mordechai Friedman
A weekly shiur analyzing a specific halakhic question
or a broad halakhic topic.
MISHNA BERURA
List name: YHE-MB
Instructor: R. Asher Meir
Designed for students who wish to study Halakha
independently, devoting a number of hours a week, the shiur
accompanies the study of the Mishna Berura by providing
background, explanations, expansion of select points, and
applications to new questions.
THE LAWS OF SHABBAT
List name: YHE-Shabbat
Instructor: R. Doniel Schreiber
Guided introduction to the laws of Shabbat,
emphasizing practical ramifications together with
understanding the underlying principles. This series will
cover the 39 categories of forbidden labor as well as
positive commandments such as kiddush, candlelighting, and
meals. Appropriate for veteran Shabbat observers as well as
newcomers.
JEWISH POLITICAL THEORY: HILKHOT MELAKHIM
List name: YHE-Kings
Instructor: R. Mosheh Lichtenstein
An investigation of the ideal Jewish political system,
focusing on the Biblical and Talmudic debates, medieval
halakha and philosophy, and questions surrounding the
establishment of the State of Israel.
SICHOT OF THE ROSHEI YESHIVA
List name: YHE-Sichot
Instructors: Harav Yehuda Amital and Harav Aharon
Lichtenstein
Coordinator: R. Ronnie Ziegler
Addresses (sichot) on the weekly parasha by the Roshei
Yeshiva of Yeshivat Har Etzion. The sichot examine
fundamental principles of Judaism and issues of modern
Jewish society, and their application to daily life.
(Repeat from 1996).
DEVELOPING A TORAH PERSONALITY
List name: YHE-Develop
Instructor: HaRav Aharon Lichtenstein
Adapted by: R. Ronnie Ziegler
Addresses by one of the intellectual leaders of Modern
Orthodoxy, dealing with a variety of fundamental issues
such as: religion and ethics, faith, contributing to
society, secular studies, the concept of commandment, Torah
study, repentance, and determining objectives in spiritual
growth.
INTRODUCTION TO THE THOUGHT OF RAV J. B. SOLOVEITCHIK
List name: YHE-Rav
Instructor: R. Ronnie Ziegler
An analysis of the writings of one of the most
creative and influential Jewish thinkers of our time.
Topics covered include the role of religion in the modern
world, the philosophy of Halakha, man's crisis and
redemption, and a deeper understanding of such familiar
concepts as prayer, Torah study, repentance and Zionism.
UNDERSTANDING THE PRACTICE AND MEANING OF HALAKHA
List name: YHE-UndHalakha
Instructor: R. Ezra Bick
The course will examine the practice of halakhic
Judaism, explicating the meaning and significance of select
laws, such as Shabbat, prayer, kashrut, holidays, charity,
etc. Appropriate for all levels.
THE MEANING OF SHEMONA ESREI
List name: YHE-18
Instructor: R. Ezra Bick
The course will closely examine the text of the
central daily prayer, the "Shemona Esrei," in order to
extract the basic philosophic ideas embedded in each
section.
MEANING IN MITZVOT
List name: YHE-Kitzur
Instructor: R. Asher Meir
The course will follow the sequence of laws in the
popular halakhic digest, the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch,
explaining the inner meaning and significance of the
practices of daily Jewish observance.
JEWISH PHILOSOPHY CONFRONTS THE MODERN WORLD
List name: YHE-JewPhi
Instructor: Prof. Shalom Rosenberg
This course analyzes major issues of modern culture
and philosophy against the backdrop of the Jewish
philosophical tradition, using the 11th-century
masterpiece, The Kuzari of R. Yehuda HaLevi, as its
starting point.
HOLIDAY SPECIALS
List name: YHE-Holiday
Coordinator: R. Ronnie Ziegler
Special packages sent out before each holiday, with
lectures and sichot on various topics, to enhance the
appreciation of the holiday.
>>
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From: office@etzion.org.il
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Subject: Summer Session 5759
Reply-to: office@etzion.org.il
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d)
X-ListMember: Joelirich@aol.com
Dear Subscriber,
This week is inter-session in the VBM. The summer session
will begin next week.
NEW COURSES FOR THE SUMMER:
YHE-Kings
Jewish Political Theory, by Rav Mosheh Lichtenstein.
This is a repeat of the shiur offered in 97-98.
NEW SESSIONS FOR EXISTING COURSES:
We will begin new sessions - starting from the introductory
shiur - for the following courses:
YHE-Develop
Developing a Torah Personality, Coordinated by Rav
Ronnie Ziegler.
YHE-18
The Meaning of the Shemona Esrei, by Rav Ezra Bick.
THOSE WHO ARE ALREADY SUBSCRIBED TO YHE-18 AND
YHE-DEVELOP NEED NOT DO ANYTHING; THE COURSE
WILL RECOMMENCE IN THE FALL.
WE ARE CONTINUING THE FOLLOWING SHIURIM
THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER:
YHE-Parsha
YHE-Intparsha
YHE-Pesachim
YHE-Bavakama
YHE-Shabbat
YHE-Sichot
YHE-Kitzur
This is a good time to recommend the VBM to your friends or
find a virtual chavruta (study-partner). Please send this
announcement to someone who has not yet had the opportunity
to join in our international Torah community.
Subscription Instructions:
1. An automatic webform is available. Please see
http://www.vbm-torah.org/howto.htm
2. By e-mail
Write to lists@vbm-torah.org
[that's L I S T S]
with the message
subscribe <listname>
Example: To subscribe to yhe-kings, send the message:
subscribe yhe-kings
A full description of our shiurim follows:
TORAH TEXT STUDY:
PARASHAT HASHAVUA - THE WEEKLY TORAH PORTION
List name: YHE-Parsha
Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
Coordinator: R. Ezra Bick
An analysis of the parasha, incorporating innovative
approaches as well as traditional commentaries. The course
has an associated moderated discussion list - YHE-Par.D -
for comments, questions, and discussion of each shiur.
This list must be subscribed to separately.
INTRODUCTION TO PARASHAT HASHAVUA
List name: YHE-IntParsha
Instructors: R. Jonathan Mishkin and R. Alex Israel
A weekly examination of selected portions of the
week's Torah reading with an emphasis on understanding the
textual problems and the underlying meaning. The course is
geared for beginners but is open to all levels.
THEMES AND STRUCTURE IN PARASHAT HASHAVUA
List name: YHE-Parsha.ML
Instructor: R. Menachem Leibtag
A revised version of our original Parashat Ha-shavua
series, with special attention to issues of structure in
parshiot and the overall theme of each sefer.
TEHILLIM - THE BOOK OF PSALMS
List name: YHE-Tehillim
Instructor: R. Avi Baumol
Each installment in this series attempts to examine
the thematic unity and literary techniques of one mizmor.
Its goal is to present a message embedded in each psalm
which can help us understand our relationship with our
Creator.
TALMUDIC METHODOLOGY
List name: YHE-Metho
Instructor: R. Moshe Taragin
A shiur using a different talmudic topic each week to
illustrate the nature of rabbinic legal thinking,
emphasizing the analytic methods practiced in modern
Yeshivot.
GEMARA PESACHIM
List name: YHE-Pesachim
Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
Coordinator: R. Yair Kahn
Designed for students studying Talmud on their own,
devoting a number of hours a week, the shiur will include
sources, assistance in preparation and a yeshiva-level
analysis of what has been learned during the week. A
faculty member is available for questions. Level: Beginner
GEMARA BAVA KAMA
List name: YHE-BavaKama
Instructors: R. Moshe Taragin
Designed for students studying Talmud on their own,
devoting a number of hours a week, the shiur will include
sources for preparation and a yeshiva-level analysis of
what has been learned during the week. A faculty member is
available for questions. Level: Advanced
TOPICS IN HALAKHA
List name: YHE-Halak
Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
Coordinator: R. Mordechai Friedman
A weekly shiur analyzing a specific halakhic question
or a broad halakhic topic.
MISHNA BERURA
List name: YHE-MB
Instructor: R. Asher Meir
Designed for students who wish to study Halakha
independently, devoting a number of hours a week, the shiur
accompanies the study of the Mishna Berura by providing
background, explanations, expansion of select points, and
applications to new questions.
THE LAWS OF SHABBAT
List name: YHE-Shabbat
Instructor: R. Doniel Schreiber
Guided introduction to the laws of Shabbat,
emphasizing practical ramifications together with
understanding the underlying principles. This series will
cover the 39 categories of forbidden labor as well as
positive commandments such as kiddush, candlelighting, and
meals. Appropriate for veteran Shabbat observers as well as
newcomers.
JEWISH POLITICAL THEORY: HILKHOT MELAKHIM
List name: YHE-Kings
Instructor: R. Mosheh Lichtenstein
An investigation of the ideal Jewish political system,
focusing on the Biblical and Talmudic debates, medieval
halakha and philosophy, and questions surrounding the
establishment of the State of Israel.
SICHOT OF THE ROSHEI YESHIVA
List name: YHE-Sichot
Instructors: Harav Yehuda Amital and Harav Aharon
Lichtenstein
Coordinator: R. Ronnie Ziegler
Addresses (sichot) on the weekly parasha by the Roshei
Yeshiva of Yeshivat Har Etzion. The sichot examine
fundamental principles of Judaism and issues of modern
Jewish society, and their application to daily life.
(Repeat from 1996).
DEVELOPING A TORAH PERSONALITY
List name: YHE-Develop
Instructor: HaRav Aharon Lichtenstein
Adapted by: R. Ronnie Ziegler
Addresses by one of the intellectual leaders of Modern
Orthodoxy, dealing with a variety of fundamental issues
such as: religion and ethics, faith, contributing to
society, secular studies, the concept of commandment, Torah
study, repentance, and determining objectives in spiritual
growth.
INTRODUCTION TO THE THOUGHT OF RAV J. B. SOLOVEITCHIK
List name: YHE-Rav
Instructor: R. Ronnie Ziegler
An analysis of the writings of one of the most
creative and influential Jewish thinkers of our time.
Topics covered include the role of religion in the modern
world, the philosophy of Halakha, man's crisis and
redemption, and a deeper understanding of such familiar
concepts as prayer, Torah study, repentance and Zionism.
UNDERSTANDING THE PRACTICE AND MEANING OF HALAKHA
List name: YHE-UndHalakha
Instructor: R. Ezra Bick
The course will examine the practice of halakhic
Judaism, explicating the meaning and significance of select
laws, such as Shabbat, prayer, kashrut, holidays, charity,
etc. Appropriate for all levels.
THE MEANING OF SHEMONA ESREI
List name: YHE-18
Instructor: R. Ezra Bick
The course will closely examine the text of the
central daily prayer, the "Shemona Esrei," in order to
extract the basic philosophic ideas embedded in each
section.
MEANING IN MITZVOT
List name: YHE-Kitzur
Instructor: R. Asher Meir
The course will follow the sequence of laws in the
popular halakhic digest, the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch,
explaining the inner meaning and significance of the
practices of daily Jewish observance.
JEWISH PHILOSOPHY CONFRONTS THE MODERN WORLD
List name: YHE-JewPhi
Instructor: Prof. Shalom Rosenberg
This course analyzes major issues of modern culture
and philosophy against the backdrop of the Jewish
philosophical tradition, using the 11th-century
masterpiece, The Kuzari of R. Yehuda HaLevi, as its
starting point.
HOLIDAY SPECIALS
List name: YHE-Holiday
Coordinator: R. Ronnie Ziegler
Special packages sent out before each holiday, with
lectures and sichot on various topics, to enhance the
appreciation of the holiday.
--part1_bf4def22.24795347_boundary--
Go to top.
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:39:03 EDT
From: C1A1Brown@aol.com
Subject: Ma'akeh
I few weeks ago the topic of ma'akeh was discussed on the list. It is
interesting that although a beit haknesset is patur from ma'akeh, the beit
hamikdash had a ma'akeh of 3 amot (Middot 4:6). Don't have a good hesber
yet...
-CB
Go to top.
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 14:20:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: EUREKA! etc... (fwd)
From Remy Landau...
YGB
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 14:07:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Remy Landau <rlandau@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
To: "Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: EUREKA! etc...
Dear YGB,
The problem with your hypothesis is that it raises many unanswered
questions which would have to be addressed in order to gain more
acceptability.
Off the top of my head, is there any historical evidence to substantiate
any known contact between the Jewish community(ies) of Palestine and
China of 920g (4681H)?
Is there any historical evidence that Ben Meir had any knowledge of such
communities in China?
It is known that medieval astronomers had difficulties measuring the
distance between proximate points on the globe. In fact, Albiruni
overestimates the distance between Bagdad and Jerusalem by as much as 11
minutes. So how could a lesser astronomer, Ben Meir, possibly figure out
the distance from Palestine to any point in China at that time?
These are significant hurdles in trying cope with the acceptability of
the conclusions in your hypothesis.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\|
|/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Regards From Remy Landau /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|
|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Downsview, Ontario, Canada \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\|
|/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Go to top.
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 15:48:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@ymail.yu.edu>
Subject: R. Soloveitchik and Golda Meir
>
> This reminds me of a quip quoted in the name of R. Soloveitchik. After
> the election of Golda Meir as Prime Minister, some talmidim asked the
> Rav if this was assur to vote for her, on the basis of the halakahah of
> melekh, ve-lo malkah. The Rav replied, "And it was muttar to vote for
> Ben Gurion?"
My own recollection of this incident: The question was raised in the
Gemara shiur, as we were learning the sugya in Yevamot about
qualifications for malkhut. Someone interjected as to how Mrs Meir could
serve as Prime Minister. The Rav responded that the same question would
apply to Ben Gurion and continued the shiur.
Go to top.
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:27:33 -0400
From: "sweinr1@icarus.cc.uic.edu" <sweinr1@icarus.cc.uic.edu>
Subject: hallel on Yom Haatzmaut
I would like to give Reb Moshe Feldman a yasher Koach on his wonderful post
regarding the history of Chanukah and its comparison to Yom Haatzmaut. I
sometimes really learn new things from this list, and this is one great
example. While I do not personally say hallel on the fifth of iyar, I do
believe that the debate should be based on intellectually and factually honest
arguments, not on sevaros shel shtus. Your post has emphasized that in order
to claim something about a historical fact, one must first research to the best
of one's ability to determine if in fact this is the truth. I'm not really
sure anymore why I don't say hallel on Yom Haatzmaut, because I used to use
many of the arguments you brought besheim Rav Ovadiah Yosef SHLITA. Especially
when it comes to history this is difficult, but all the more necessary.
May HKB'H grant all of us the wisdom to base our decisions on the Emes.
-Shaul Weinreb
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