Volume 33: Number 164
Sun, 20 Dec 2015
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:57:25 +0000
Subject: Re: [Avodah] women's learning
> http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial-opini
> on/opinion/women-studying-torah-facts-ground
> setup -- woman attending daf yomi, told can't come certain days because
> of the viewpoint of the teacher.
It sounded to me like the maggid shiur felt it was assur. To me the
question was what is the shul's policy? -- if they disagree, they should
get another maggid shiur. As to shul davening practices, I would say
the same thing. I might not agree with certain shul practices, but if
it's a judgment call (which I think this is), it is up to them.
> sounds you mean it's not a befeirush halacha [either inyan], but rather
> cultural/sectional.
Not exactly. I think each party may believe it is a bfeirush Halacha
but disagree on what the Halacha is. It is then up to the specific
kahal/rav in question to make a determination (e.g. our Ashkenazi shul
does't allow an eidah hamizrahi individual to use his nussach when he
davens for the amud)
KT
Joel Rich
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Message: 2
From: Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:09:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Is it Musar to Buy Chocolate?
When I saw the title, I thought this conversation would be about whether
there is a heter al pi mussar to eat chocolate, which is an indulgence,
other than on rare occasions. A similar question may be applied to
certain cuts of steak - which have recently become available to retail
consumers - etc.
KT, GS,
YGB
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Message: 3
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:34:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Is it Musar to Buy Chocolate?
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 01:09:52PM -0500, Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer via Avodah wrote:
: When I saw the title, I thought this conversation would be about
: whether there is a heter al pi mussar to eat chocolate, which is an
: indulgence, other than on rare occasions. A similar question may be
: applied to certain cuts of steak - which have recently become
: available to retail consumers - etc.
I tend to write "mussar" the way you did -- with two "s"-es. This was
just a fortuitous typo for "mutar".
Wouldn't Rav Shimon Shkop (and others) argue that any oneg that is
used for the sake of avodas Hashem is not a mussar issue? IOW, enjoy
your chocolate until you realized you are eating chocolate for its own
sake, rather than because the pick-me-up would be useful in order to
face / continue facing <fill in the blank>.
Want to discuss the mussar of eating white veal?
:-)BBii!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Feeling grateful to or appreciative of someone
mi...@aishdas.org or something in your life actually attracts more
http://www.aishdas.org of the things that you appreciate and value into
Fax: (270) 514-1507 your life. - Christiane Northrup, M.D.
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Message: 4
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:40:08 +0000
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Is it Musar to Buy Chocolate?
Wouldn't Rav Shimon Shkop (and others) argue that any oneg that is
used for the sake of avodas Hashem is not a mussar issue? IOW, enjoy
your chocolate until you realized you are eating chocolate for its own
sake, rather than because the pick-me-up would be useful in order to
face / continue facing <fill in the blank>.
Want to discuss the mussar of eating white veal?
:-)BBii!
-Micha
--
I wonder whether there is a concept that just because you can afford to do
something, and it is not specifically forbidden, it doesn't mean it is
preferred to do it? A Kosher trip I recently saw advertised "The Best, No
Matter What The Cost", should this be considered appropriate?
KT
Joel Rich
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Message: 5
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 14:17:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Is it Musar to Buy Chocolate?
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:40pm GMT, Rich, R Joel wrote:
: I wonder whether there is a concept that just because you can afford to
: do something, and it is not specifically forbidden, it doesn't mean it is
: preferred to do it? A Kosher trip I recently saw advertised "The Best,
: No Matter What The Cost", should this be considered appropriate?
Are you talking about the medrash on Qedoshim Tihyu "perushim tihyu"
and what's likely the most famous comment by the Ramban?
Available in English in a blog quote within
<http://hitzeiyehonatan.blogspot.com/2013/04/aharei-mot-kedoshim-ram
ban.html>
My comment about RSS's position was based on his discussion of just
that Ramban? Too much is being defined as when it becomes an end in
itself, a distraction from life's real goals.
In fact, RSS holds that holiness is defined by that commitment. This is
ki Qadosh Ani. Hashem had not indulgences to be poreish from! He
simply has One Purpose. We, in order to emulate His Qedushah need
to separate from other purrposes. So, the mitzvah of becoming holy will
require perishus, but holy itself isn't perishus.
If was from his discussion of that that I was drawing from. See
<http://www.aishdas.org/asp/ShaareiYosher.pdf#page=2>
:-)BBii!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger A person lives with himself for seventy years,
mi...@aishdas.org and after it is all over, he still does not
http://www.aishdas.org know himself.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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Message: 6
From: Zev Sero
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 14:10:16 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The Many Facets of Asarah B'Teves
On 12/17/2015 11:13 PM, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> On 12/18/2015 3:08 AM, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
>> Not true. Tisha B'av can't be on Friday. If it were possible for
>> it to fall on a Friday, there is no reason to believe we would delay it.
> I think that they mean in a theoretical, eidut determining the
> chodesh, type situation.
Once again, AFAIK there is no reason at all to believe that if it any
other fast fell on a Friday it would be delayed. The only fast that
*is* delayed if it falls on a Friday is Yom Kippur, not because it's
a fast (since it's delayed to Shabbos!) but because of the issur
melacha. (Of course, since the Torah specifies Yom Kippur's date,
the only way to delay it is to delay Rosh Hashana, so that is what we do.)
There *is* an opinion that in the hypothetical case that Asara B'Tevet
were to fall on Shabbos we would fast, but I believe the only reason
this opinion gets the play that it does is because it's only hypothetical.
If it were possible for it to actually happen we would not give this
opinion any consideration, and in fact it might never have been advanced
at all, since its originator would have known that we don't do that.
--
Zev Sero All around myself I will wave the green willow
z...@sero.name The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
I'll explain it to you".
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Message: 7
From: Zev Sero
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 14:13:53 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Is it Musar to Buy Chocolate?
On 12/18/2015 01:09 PM, Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer via Avodah wrote:
> When I saw the title, I thought this conversation would be about
> whether there is a heter al pi mussar to eat chocolate, which is an
> indulgence, other than on rare occasions.
On the contrary, chocolate is very good for you (though the sugar that
it comes with is not, so if you're eating it leshem shamayim go for as
high a percentage of cacao, and as low a percentage of sugar, as you
can bear).
--
Zev Sero All around myself I will wave the green willow
z...@sero.name The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
I'll explain it to you".
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Message: 8
From: Micha Berger
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:48:06 -0500
Subject: [Avodah] Anthropic Principle
SciAm ran this article last month on 5 of the really finely tuned
aspects of physics without which we wouldn't be here.
<http://j.mp/1QRZqyY>
(Shrunk from
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article
/5-reasons-to-thank-your-lucky-constants-this-thanksgiving )
Gut Voch!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger When we are no longer able to change a situation
mi...@aishdas.org -- just think of an incurable disease such as
http://www.aishdas.org inoperable cancer -- we are challenged to change
Fax: (270) 514-1507 ourselves. - Victor Frankl (MSfM)
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Message: 9
From: Akiva Miller
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:55:08 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The Many Facets of Asarah B'Teves
R' Zev Sero wrote:
> Not true. Tisha B'av can't be on Friday. If it were possible
> for it to fall on a Friday, there is no reason to believe we
> would delay it.
RZS is correct that in our current calendar, Tish'a B'Av does not fall on
Friday. But one might ask: Why?
From what I see, if TbA *would* fall on Friday, then two months later,
Hoshana Raba would fall on Shabbos. It is well-known that Chazal disallowed
that situation because they wanted to make sure that Shabbos would not
prevent us from beating the arava. But *perhaps* they had Friday Tisha B'Av
in mind as well.
Akiva Miller
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Message: 10
From: elazar teitz
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:03:02 +0200
Subject: Re: [Avodah] the many facets of Asarah b'Teves
RZev Sero quoted RDYitzchok Levine:
>>unique to this fast is that it is the only one that we do actually
>>observe as a fast on a Friday. Even Tisha BAv, which commemorates the
>>actual destructions of our Batei HaMikdash, gets pushed off.
and responded:
>Not true. Tisha B'av can't be on Friday. If it were possible for
>it to fall on a Friday, there is no reason to believe we would delay it.
The original quote was cited by RDYL, not authored by him. I assume
that the author was referring to the fact that even the fast of Tisha b'Av
is not always celebrated on its proper day, since it is pushed off when it
comes on Shabbos.
However, the remark about no fast other than Asara b'Teves being
observed on Friday is incorrect. When Erev Pesach is on Friday, Ta'anis
B'chorim is observed then (for anyone who does not rely on a siyum to avoid
the fast).
EMT
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Message: 11
From: Akiva Miller
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:57:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] halachah and history
R' Eli Turkel wrote:
> This comes back to an old historical debate. It is fairly clear
> that for many years the Sanhedrin was run by Sadducees. If so
> who are the zugot mentioned in Pirkei avot as Nasi and Av Bet din.
I'm very disturbed by this claim. That doesn't mean I'm arguing against it,
only that I wonder about it's implications: Can we identify which rulings
came from those years? Should we consider ourselves obligated to follow the
rulings of kofrim?
Akiva Miller
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Message: 12
From: Micha Berger
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 20:33:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] halachah and history
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 03:57:05PM -0500, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: I'm very disturbed by this claim. That doesn't mean I'm arguing against it,
: only that I wonder about it's implications: Can we identify which rulings
: came from those years? Should we consider ourselves obligated to follow the
: rulings of kofrim?
I assume the tannaim simply ignored them.
See the scolium on Megillas Taanis, Teves 28 (par 24)
<http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/toshba/makor/megilat-2.htm>
One the 8th of Teves the Keneses sat in judgment
Scolium: Because there were Tzeduqim sitting in Sanhedrin, King
Yanai and Queen Shalminon sitting with him, and there was no
one in Israel sitting with them except Shim'on ben Shetach.
However, this should come as no surprise. The gemara discuses when
Alexander Yannai murdered the Sanhedrin, leaving only his brother-in-law
Shimon ben Shetach alive -- but in hiding. It would have been outrageous
as eliminating the branch of gov't, so the politically more logical
conclusion from the gemara would be that the Tzeduqim ran it themselves.
Anyay, 28 Teves was a holiday of the restoration of the Sanhedrin.
Gut Voch!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger I thank God for my handicaps, for, through them,
mi...@aishdas.org I have found myself, my work, and my God.
http://www.aishdas.org - Helen Keller
Fax: (270) 514-1507
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Message: 13
From: Zev Sero
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 20:23:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The Many Facets of Asarah B'Teves
On 12/18/2015 03:55 PM, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> R' Zev Sero wrote:
>
>> Not true. Tisha B'av can't be on Friday. If it were possible
>> for it to fall on a Friday, there is no reason to believe we
>> would delay it.
> RZS is correct that in our current calendar, Tish'a B'Av does not
> fall on Friday. But one might ask: Why?
>
> From what I see, if TbA *would* fall on Friday, then two months
> later, Hoshana Raba would fall on Shabbos. It is well-known that
> Chazal disallowed that situation because they wanted to make sure
> that Shabbos would not prevent us from beating the arava. But
> *perhaps* they had Friday Tisha B'Av in mind as well.
There is no reason to suppose so. The claim that fasts other than Asara
B'Tevet would be delayed if they fell on Friday simply has no basis.
The only fast that is delayed if it's on Friday is Yom Kippur, and that
is not because it's not as important as Asara B'Tevet(!) but becuse we
don't want two days in a row with issur melacha. The reason given for
this calendar rule, that Hoshana Rabba should not be on Shabbat, is
completely sufficient to explain it, and there's no reason to invent
new and utterly foundationless explanations.
--
Zev Sero All around myself I will wave the green willow
z...@sero.name The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
I'll explain it to you".
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Message: 14
From: Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:29:19 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Is it Musar to Buy Chocolate?
On 12/18/2015 02:13 PM, Zev Sero wrote:
> On 12/18/2015 01:09 PM, Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer via Avodah wrote:
>> When I saw the title, I thought this conversation would be about
>> whether there is a heter al pi mussar to eat chocolate, which is an
>> indulgence, other than on rare occasions.
> On the contrary, chocolate is very good for you (though the sugar that
> it comes with is not, so if you're eating it leshem shamayim go for as
> high a percentage of cacao, and as low a percentage of sugar, as you
> can bear).
That is not the "sinfully" or "decadently" delicious chocolate that I
had in mind...
KT, GS,
YGB
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Message: 15
From: Zev Sero
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 16:02:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Is it Musar to Buy Chocolate?
On 12/18/2015 03:29 PM, Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer wrote:
> That is not the "sinfully" or "decadently" delicious chocolate that I
> had in mind...
70% is quite delicious. 90% is a taste one can acquire, and then enjoy
without qualms.
--
Zev Sero All around myself I will wave the green willow
z...@sero.name The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
I'll explain it to you".
Go to top.
Message: 16
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 15:50:35 +0200
Subject: [Avodah] matityahu kohen gadol
I saw the following today in Minchat Chinuch 107.
He brings from Yossipon that Yehudah Hamakabbi son of Matityahu Kohen Gadol
was Kohen Mashuach Milchamah. He asks that this position requires being
anointed which didn't exist in the second Temple. He answers that the
position was not an official position but was just an honorary title
--
Eli Turkel
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