Avodah Mailing List

Volume 40: Number 14

Sun, 27 Feb 2022

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: David Riceman
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 13:05:42 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Copper and Silver Adanim


RMB:

> When people design a building, if they aren't being symmetric, they put
> most of the aesthetics in the facade. The fanciest columns, nice doors,
> window frames, etc...
> 
> So it struck me when being maavir sedra that the adanim on the walls
> are silver, but the ones on the pillars in front were copper.



It's a trope.  See Tanhuma BaMidbar 3:1

https://www.sefaria.org/Midrash_Tanchuma%2C_Bamidbar.3?ven=Townsend_1989_translation_of_Midrash_Tanhuma,_S._Buber_Recension,_edited_and_supplemented_by_R._Francis_Nataf&;vhe=Midrash_Tanchuma_--_Torat_Emet&lang=bi

David Riceman

Sent from my iPad

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Message: 2
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 07:54:10 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] [Areivim] Kosher Supermarkets


At 11:50 PM 2/24/2022, Marty Bluke wrote to me. 
(I am moving this discussion to Avodah.):

>Your gift of the food to your gentile cleaning 
>lady may be a violation of lo sechanem. The 
>Gemara learns out from lo sechanem that it is 
>prohibited to give a gift to a non Jew. So your 
>actions may be a case of a chumra that leads to a kula.?

Let's put the Gemara you referred to in proper 
context.  From what I have posted below:

"If you have a relationship with the non-Jew and 
may receive something in return, one is permitted to give gifts."

I certainly have a relationship with my cleaning 
given that she cleans my house, and a clean house is what I receive in return!

Yitzchok Levine

From

https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews


Source

    * One is forbidden to give a free gift to a 
non-Jew.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-1>[1] 

        * Some explain that this by all non-Jews 
except for a ger 
toshav.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-2>[2] 

        * Others explain that this only applies 
to 
idolaters<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-3>[3] 

        * Others explain that this only applied 
to the seven nations that inhabited the land of 
Israel in the days of 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Joshua.4?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Yehoshua.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-4>[4] 

    * The prohibition is not about the act of 
giving, but the non-Jew benefiting. Therefore, it 
only applies if the non-Jew receives the 
benefit.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-5>[5] 

    * One is permitted to accept a gift from a 
non-Jew.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-6>[6] 

    * Some prohibit one from donating blood in a 
country that is mostly 
non-Jews.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-7>[7] 
Nowadays many permit donating 
blood.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-8>[8] 



Exceptions

    * If you have a relationship with the non-Jew 
and may receive something in return, one is 
permitted to give 
gifts.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-9>[9] 

    * It is permitted to give a gift for an 
ulterior 
motive.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-10>[10] 

    * If you are giving a gift in order to 
maintain a peaceful environment, it is 
permissible.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-11>[11] 
Therefore, one 
may<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-12>[12]: 

        * Give charity to a non-Jew.
        * Visit a non-Jew who is ill.
        * Bury and eulogize non-Jew.
        * Comfort a non-Jewish mourner.
    * One may tip a taxi driver, even though 
you'll never see him 
again.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-13>[13] 

    * Some allow giving a gift if it is out of 
compassion for a non-Jew 
struggling.<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-14>[14] 



Sources

<https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.20b?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Avoda 
Zara 20b quoting 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.7.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Devarim 
7:2. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 151:11 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Choshen_Mishpat.249.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>C.M. 
249:2 Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igros Moshe 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Orach_Chayim.2.51?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>O.C. 
2:51) says this is specifically by non-Jews, but 
does not apply to irreligious Jews. Tosfos 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.20a?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Avoda 
Zara 20a s.v. d'amar. Beis Yosef 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Choshen_Mishpat.249?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>C.M. 
249. Shach Y.D. 151:18. Sma 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Choshen_Mishpat.249.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>C.M. 
249:2 explains that a ger toshav is a person who 
accepts the sheva mitzvos bnei noach and we are 
therefore obligated to provide for him if he 
doesn't have and are allowed to give him gifts. 
However, one who doesn't abide by the sheva 
mitzvos can only be sold to Meiri 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.20a?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Avoda 
Zara 20a, Shut HaRashba 1:8, and Sefer HaChinuch 
Mitzvah 426. Shut Titz Eliezer 15:47:5 Torah 
Temimah in 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.7.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Devarim 
7:2. Titz Eliezer 15:47 says this is not accepted 
as it is against the rishonim Avoda Berura 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.20?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Avoda 
Zara 20 Yad Rama 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Batra.6?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Bava 
Batra 6 Rav Menashe Klein (Mishneh Halachos 
4:245) says this would be an issue of giving a 
free gift and healing non-Jews Rabbi Aryeh 
Lebowitz in a 
<https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/750344/rabbi-aryeh-lebowitz/ten-minute-halacha-donating-blood/>shiur 
strongly encourages donating blood. He explains 
that you are donating to a system (just like 
paying taxes), so there is a reciprocity. It 
helps when everyone donates and this is similar 
to the Taz Y.D. 151:8. Additionally, your blood 
may be going to a Jew and he may need it 
immediately. Finally, many poskim including Rav 
Heinkin say that the prohibition only applies to 
idolaters. Rabbi Lebowitz quoted from Rabbi 
Mordechai Willig and Rabbi Tzvi Sobolofsky that 
it is permissible to give blood Taz Y.D. 151:8. 
Rosh 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Avodah_Zarah.1.19?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Avoda 
Zara 1:19 explains that it is not a free gift, 
but an exchange, similar to a sale. Ran 
(<https://www.sefaria.org/Gittin.38b?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>Gittin 
38b) uses this rationale to explain how Rabbi 
Eliezer freed his slave in order to complete a 
minyan. Although this was a gift to the slave, it 
is permissible if the givers benefit. Shut 
HaRashbash 468 says it would be prohibited to 
give a vessel to a non-Jew as a present on Yom 
Tov if you forgot to do tevilas keilim. Shulchan 
Aruch 
<https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Choshen_Mishpat.249.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>C.M. 
249:2 Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 151:12 The Debreciner 
Rav (Beer Moshe 3:117) explains that if you don?t 
he (and his friends) will no longer stop and pick 
up Jews. Shut Divrei Yatziv 10:43
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Message: 3
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:33:38 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] [Areivim] Kosher Supermarkets


At 08:05 AM 2/25/2022, Marty Bluke wrote:
>It is fascinating how here in this Halacha ? you 
>are willing to rely on various kulos etc. but 
>when it comes to food you are super strict. This 
>is a fascinating phenomenon in general that 
>needs to be studied, people who only eat 
>specific hashgachas and are super machmir when 
>it comes to food, when it comes to money will 
>rely on all kinds of kulos and daas yachid etc.

>How dare you imply that "when it comes to money 
>(I) will rely on all kinds of kulos and daas yachid, etc"?

I am a big fan of Rav Shimon Schwab, 
ZT"L.  Please take the time to read carefully

<http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/rsrh/chillul_hashem_r_schwab.pdf>Chillul 
Hashem

Here you will get an indication of my approach to 
money matters. It does not rely upon kulos.

IMO since you have lost your argument with me, 
you are now resorting to (implied) character

assassination. For shame!

Yitzchok Levine

.


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Message: 4
From: Marty Bluke
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 15:05:46 +0200
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] [Areivim] Kosher Supermarkets


It is fascinating how here in this Halacha  you are willing to rely on
various kulos etc. but when it comes to food you are super strict. This is
a fascinating phenomenon in general that needs to be studied, people who
only eat specific hashgachas and are super machmir when it comes to food,
when it comes to money will rely on all kinds of kulos and daas yachid etc.

On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 2:57 PM Prof. Levine <larry62...@optonline.net>
wrote:

> At 11:50 PM 2/24/2022, Marty Bluke wrote to me. (I am moving this
> discussion to Avodah.):
>
> Your gift of the food to your gentile cleaning lady may be a violation of
> lo sechanem. The Gemara learns out from lo sechanem that it is prohibited
> to give a gift to a non Jew. So your actions may be a case of a chumra that
> leads to a kula.?
>
>
> Let's put the Gemara you referred to in proper context.  From what I have
> posted below:
>
> "If you have a relationship with the non-Jew and may receive something in
> return, one is permitted to give gifts."
>
> I certainly have a relationship with my cleaning given that she cleans my
> house, and a clean house is what I receive in return!
>
> Yitzchok Levine
>
> From
>
> https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews
>
> *Source*
>
>    1. One is forbidden to give a free gift to a non-Jew. [1]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-1>
>       1. Some explain that this by all non-Jews except for a *ger toshav*
>       . [2]
>	   <https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-2>
>       2. Others explain that this only applies to idolaters [3]
>	   <https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-3>
>       3. Others explain that this only applied to the seven nations that
>       inhabited the land of Israel in the days of Yehoshua.
>	   <https://www.sefaria.org/Joshua.4?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>
>       [4]
>	   <https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-4>
>    2. The prohibition is not about the act of giving, but the non-Jew
>    benefiting. Therefore, it only applies if the non-Jew receives the benefit.
>    [5]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-5>
>    3. One is permitted to accept a gift from a non-Jew. [6]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-6>
>    4. Some prohibit one from donating blood in a country that is mostly
>    non-Jews. [7]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-7>
>    Nowadays many permit donating blood. [8]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-8>
>
>
> *Exceptions*
>
>    1. If you have a relationship with the non-Jew and may receive
>    something in return, one is permitted to give gifts. [9]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-9>
>    2. It is permitted to give a gift for an ulterior motive. [10]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-10>
>    3. If you are giving a gift in order to maintain a peaceful
>    environment, it is permissible. [11]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-11>
>    Therefore, one may [12]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-12>:
>
>       1. Give charity to a non-Jew.
>       2. Visit a non-Jew who is ill.
>       3. Bury and eulogize non-Jew.
>       4. Comfort a non-Jewish mourner.
>    4. One may tip a taxi driver, even though you'll never see him again.
>    [13]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-13>
>    5. Some allow giving a gift if it is out of compassion for a non-Jew
>    struggling. [14]
>	<https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Giving_Gifts_to_Non-Jews#cite_note-14>
>
>
> *Sources* Avoda Zara 20b
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.20b?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>
> quoting Devarim 7:2
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.7.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>.
> Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 151:11 C.M. 249:2
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Choshen_Mishpat.249.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>
> Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igros Moshe O.C. 2:51
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Orach_Chayim.2.51?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>)
> says this is specifically by non-Jews, but does not apply to irreligious
> Jews. Tosfos Avoda Zara 20a
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.20a?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>
> s.v. d'amar. Beis Yosef C.M. 249
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Choshen_Mishpat.249?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>.
> Shach Y.D. 151:18. Sma C.M. 249:2
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Choshen_Mishpat.249.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>
> explains that a ger toshav is a person who accepts the sheva mitzvos bnei
> noach and we are therefore obligated to provide for him if he doesn't have
> and are allowed to give him gifts. However, one who doesn't abide by the
> sheva mitzvos can only be sold to Meiri Avoda Zara 20a
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.20a?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>,
> Shut HaRashba 1:8, and Sefer HaChinuch Mitzvah 426. Shut Titz Eliezer
> 15:47:5 Torah Temimah in Devarim 7:2
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.7.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>.
> Titz Eliezer 15:47 says this is not accepted as it is against the rishonim
> Avoda Berura Avoda Zara 20
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.20?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>
> Yad Rama Bava Batra 6
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Batra.6?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>
> Rav Menashe Klein (Mishneh Halachos 4:245) says this would be an issue of
> giving a free gift and healing non-Jews Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz in a shiur
> <https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/750344/rabbi-aryeh-lebowitz/ten-minute-halacha-donating-blood/>
> strongly encourages donating blood. He explains that you are donating to a
> system (just like paying taxes), so there is a reciprocity. It helps when
> everyone donates and this is similar to the Taz Y.D. 151:8. Additionally,
> your blood may be going to a Jew and he may need it immediately. Finally,
> many poskim including Rav Heinkin say that the prohibition only applies to
> idolaters. Rabbi Lebowitz quoted from Rabbi Mordechai Willig and Rabbi Tzvi
> Sobolofsky that it is permissible to give blood Taz Y.D. 151:8. Rosh Avoda
> Zara 1:19
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Avodah_Zarah.1.19?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>
> explains that it is not a free gift, but an exchange, similar to a sale.
> Ran ( Gittin 38b
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Gittin.38b?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>)
> uses this rationale to explain how Rabbi Eliezer freed his slave in order
> to complete a minyan. Although this was a gift to the slave, it is
> permissible if the givers benefit. Shut HaRashbash 468 says it would be
> prohibited to give a vessel to a non-Jew as a present on Yom Tov if you
> forgot to do tevilas keilim. Shulchan Aruch C.M. 249:2
> <https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Choshen_Mishpat.249.2?lang=he-en&;utm_source=halachipedia.com&utm_medium=sefaria_linker>
> Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 151:12 The Debreciner Rav (Beer Moshe 3:117) explains
> that if you don?t he (and his friends) will no longer stop and pick up
> Jews. Shut Divrei Yatziv 10:43
>
>
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Message: 5
From: Michael Poppers
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:24:03 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] [Areivim] What is the proper procedure for


R'Micha in Avodah V40n13:
> But to answer as to what to actually do (assuming you aren't from an Edah
that favors the Rambam over these sources), they add that for an itur
yad, our left hand is our "yemin". So, you put on the shoe on your more
coordinated side first, but tie the other shoe first (if it needs tying).

Or: you put on the shoe on the side that does more mitzvos first, and
you tie the one on the side where you tie your tefillin first (if you
are male or if otherwise were to wear tefillin). <
Last week, RPMTeitz z'l' was quoted (by a magid shiur in Elizabeth, NJ) as
using one's feet to determine which side was "stronger": when you kick a
ball, which foot do you prefer kicking with?

--Michael via phone
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Message: 6
From: Zev Sero
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 14:55:16 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] [Areivim] What is the proper procedure for


On 27/2/22 09:24, Michael Poppers via Avodah wrote:
> Last week, RPMTeitz z'l' was quoted (by a magid shiur in Elizabeth, NJ) 
> as using one's feet to determine which side was "stronger": when you 
> kick a ball, which foot do you prefer kicking with?

That's not for tefillin, that's for chalitza.  For tying shoes it 
doesn't matter which foot is dominant, what matters is where you put 
tefillin, which depends on the dominant hand.   And IIRC determining the 
dominant hand follows writing in preference to

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone health, wealth, and
z...@sero.name       happiness in 2022


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