Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 87

Fri, 15 Oct 2021

< Previous Next >
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: cantorwolberg
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:38:30 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Mar Cheshvan


I?m well aware of the explanation for why we say Mar before announcing Cheshvan.
Here is my question:  After a marathon of chagim you would think there
would be some relief from the demands and requirements surrounding the
holidays. Of course, a true tzaddik might feel a certain bitterness in a
month of no holidays, but the average person would welcome a rest, so to
speak.


Go to top.

Message: 2
From: Michael Poppers
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 19:44:02 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Languages


RAMiller et al. may be interested in RJG's d'var Torah in the most-recent
Toras Aish (URL https://www.aishdas.org/ta/5782/noach.pdf).

--Michael via phone
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20211011/fc07cb03/attachment-0001.html>


Go to top.

Message: 3
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 12:21:59 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] What is a Shuk


On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 08:59:06PM -0400, Akiva Miller wrote:
> The ArtScroll Onkelos on that pasuk refers us to Ramban on pasuk 9:11. The
> last lines of that Ramban cite this Onkelos, and he writes that Cham told
> it to his brothers "bifnay rabim l'hal'ig alav - in public to make fun of
> him."

Etymology sites say that the original meaning of "shuq" was street,
and it later evolved into "street market" in Arabic and Somali. As Zev
cited from wiktionary.

So, I have to go with Zev's answer (he cited this idea from wiktionary,
which was enough to push me to google for more sources). In Aramaic a
"shuq" is a broad street, like "rechov". (In pre-modern Hebrew; in what
RSM calls Abazit [Ivrit Bat Zemaneinu], there are some pretty narrow
rechovot -- despite the shoresh.)

Still everyone out in the street for Cham to make a scene in front of
would be their children, neices and nephews, or, if it took long enough
since the flood, grand- or great grand-children. All people who should
be standing up for the respect of their zeide or alter zeide.

It is like we are describing it as happening centuries after the flood,
when there were enough people around for crowds, and people didn't all
feel related any more.

But this drifted from my original question.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
Author: Widen Your Tent      tasks as if they were great and noble.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                            - Helen Keller



Go to top.

Message: 4
From: Akiva Miller
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 20:59:06 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] What is a Shuk


.
R' Micha Berger asked:
> In Bereishis 9:22, Cham runs out to Sheim and Yafes to tell
> them of their father's nakedness. the pasuq says he told them
> "bachutz", which Unqekus translates "beshuqa".
> He found them in a marketplace? Who does Unqelus believe were
> conducting business there?

The ArtScroll Onkelos on that pasuk refers us to Ramban on pasuk 9:11. The
last lines of that Ramban cite this Onkelos, and he writes that Cham told
it to his brothers "bifnay rabim l'hal'ig alav - in public to make fun of
him."

So perhaps RMB's question might be better phrased, "Who do Unqelus and
Ramban believe were conducting business there?"

Akiva Miller
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20211011/2ddff078/attachment-0001.html>


Go to top.

Message: 5
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 21:01:45 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Mar Cheshvan


On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 05:38:30PM -0400, cantorwolberg via Avodah wrote:
> I'm well aware of the explanation for why we say Mar before announcing
> Cheshvan.

Except it is "omly" a derashah. As is the one thqt associated "mar"
with the first "drop" of water of the Mabul that fell in this month.


The historical reason the month is called Marcheshvan is because that
is it's name. "Cheshvan" is the effect of someone mistakenly thinking
those derashos were actual peirushim.

Akkadian differs from Hebrew and Aramaic in that the role of mem and of
vav and yud are swapped. So, the Hebrew "yareiach shemini" (eighth month)
is "Marach Shewan" in Babylonia. The minth is simply Semitic for Oct
+ ober.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The purely righteous do not complain about evil,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   but add justice, don't complain about heresy,
Author: Widen Your Tent      but add faith, don't complain about ignorance,
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    but add wisdom.     - R AY Kook, Arpelei Tohar



Go to top.

Message: 6
From: Zev Sero
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 23:48:25 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Mar Cheshvan


On 11/10/21 5:38 pm, cantorwolberg via Avodah wrote:
> I?m well aware of the explanation for why we say Mar before announcing Cheshvan.

*The* explanation?!   *The* explanation, the *only* correct explanation, 
is that the month's name is Merachshevan, which is commonly pronounced 
Marcheshvan because it's easier, and "Cheshvan" is merely a shorthand 
slang term.  All other "explanations" may sound nice and even teach nice 
lessons, but they are not actually true.  It has nothing to do with 
"mister", or "bitter", or "droplet".


-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone health, wealth, and
z...@sero.name       happiness in 5782



Go to top.

Message: 7
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 21:22:43 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] slichot time


How should community leadership (Rabbi/Tovei hair
[officers]) think about the trade-off between number of attendees and appropriateness of timing when setting time for slichot (including PM)?
KT
Joel Rich

THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE 
ADDRESSEE.  IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL 
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE.  Dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is 
strictly prohibited.  If you received this message in error, please notify us 
immediately by replying: "Received in error" and delete the message.  
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20211012/38a5b480/attachment-0001.html>

------------------------------



_______________________________________________
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org


------------------------------


**************************************

Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
	avodah@lists.aishdas.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodahareivim-membership-agreement/


You can reach the person managing the list at
	avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org


When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."

A list of common acronyms is available at
        http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodah-acronyms
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)


< Previous Next >