Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 53

Thu, 10 Jun 2021

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Akiva Miller
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 19:43:29 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] When was Pi haAretz created?


.
R' Micha Berger asked:

> But, what Moshe (Bamidbar 16:30) says is, "ve'im beri'ah
> yivra H' ufatzesa ha'adamah es piha..."
> But according to Avos, the mouth was already created well
> before Moshe spoke!?
> So, why does Moshe describe the earth opening up to swallow
> people as a new beryah?

Read the words carefully. The new creation is not the earth's mouth. The
mouth already existed. Perhaps it was even a well-known geological
formation.

But it had never opened up before. *That* is the beriah described by that
pasuk. The opening up of the already-existent mouth.

"Hashem will create a creation, that the earth will open its mouth..."

Akiva Miller
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Message: 2
From: Zev Sero
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 21:18:00 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] When was Pi haAretz created?


As RMB often points out, HKBH is outside time, so to talk of when He 
creates something is confusing.  If the Pi Ha'aretz was created on the 
6th day, it was done so because Moshe in the year 2451 was going to call 
on Hashem to create it.  Hashem, answering Moshe's prayer, created the 
world that way.


-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a healthy summer
z...@sero.name



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Message: 3
From: Alexander Seinfeld
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2021 21:23:30 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] eating for brachot rather than brachot for


They did not eat them because they only ate healthy food.
Eating for berachot began when Jews stopped paying attention to the
mitzvah of shmrat haguf (staying healthy).
My guess is mid-20th Century when unhealthy calories became dirt cheap.
Alexander Seinfeld

>Did bnai yeshiva not eat granola bars in the time of Moshe Rabbeinu due
>to safeik brachot? When did the approach of eating for brachot rather
>than brachot for eating take off? Why?
>KT
>Joel Rich





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Message: 4
From: Zev Sero
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 21:14:37 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] zimmun al hakos


On 8/6/21 6:08 pm, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> Is zimmun al hakos outside of smachot frequently done in many communities?

In my experience, when there is a minyan and wine is available it is 
always done.  When there is only a mezuman I've seen it done on Shabbos 
/ Yomtov, but not always.

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a healthy summer
z...@sero.name



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Message: 5
From: Prof. L. Levine
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 14:22:40 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] Kashering a non-kosher Utensil


From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. I understand there are two ways to kasher a utensil that became
non-kosher: libun and hagalah. Please define each term and explain when
each one is appropriate.

A. In Parshas Mattos (Bamidbar 31:23), the Torah describes a purification
process for metal utensils taken as spoils of war from the Midianites:
?Anything that comes in contact with fire must be passed through fire?
anything that did not contact fire must pass through (hot) water?. Chazal
understood this as referring to two distinct methods of kosherization to
purge non-kosher taste (known as ta'am) from vessels. Chazal formulated a
rule for the proper method of kosherization as follows. "Kibolo kach
polto", which means, as the taste is absorbed, so it will be expelled.
Those utensils that were used with water, such as a pot that was used to
cook soup, are kashered with submersion in boiling water. This is known as
hagalah. Those utensils that were used directly on the fire with dry heat,
such as grills or spits, must be kashered with a more intensive method of
kosherization, by placing the utensils directly in the fire. This is
referred to as libun.

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Message: 6
From: Chaim Tatel
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:44:25 +0300
Subject:
[Avodah] Who was the safety engineer for the Mikdash?


In Devarim 22:8, the pasuk gives the requirement to put a maakeh (safety
rail) on the roof.

There are many pictures if the large mizbeach (altar) where the animals
were offered in the Mikdash.

I have never seen any pictures showing a safety rail on the mizbeach,
neither on the top nor on the ?sovev? where the Kohanim walked around.

Both places are fairly high.  Furthermore, the sovev was only one amah wide
(at most 2 feet).  Not much room for error.

Not the safest place in the world (unless the Kohen came from Peru; those
guys can handle high, narrow paths).

Does anyone have an answer for this?

Thanks
Chaim Tatel
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Message: 7
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 18:54:14 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Who was the safety engineer for the Mikdash?


On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 04:44:25PM +0300, Chaim Tatel via Avodah wrote:
> In Devarim 22:8, the pasuk gives the requirement to put a maakeh (safety
> rail) on the roof.

A maaqeh is not directly a safety measure. It is an exercise in
internalizing the importance of safety.

This is why only homes that are privately owned must have a maaqeh.
Not communal property, nor a privately owned storehouse or barn.

> There are many pictures if the large mizbeach (altar) where the animals
> were offered in the Mikdash.

And that's why the mizbeiach didn't require a maaqeh midin maaqeh.
It's neither a dwelling place nor privately owned.

Of course it's assur to leave a hazard in people's way, but that's
a different mitzvah.

The Tif'eres Yisrael (Tzuras haMizbeiach #14) assumes there was a maaqeh
on the soveiv. I think the top of the mizbeiach is less of an issue, as
He also writes (Middos, Yachin, 3:8) that the area between the qeronos
sloped upward a bit. This would keep them from walking within an ammah
from the ledge.

His maqor is Zevachim 62a. "Tanu rabbanan: Eizehu karkov bein qeren
leqren..."Then R Nachman says there were two -- one for decoration
and one to keep the kohanim from falling. (See Rashi ad loc.)

The Rogachover (Tzovnas Paneiach
<https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=22194&;st=&pgnum=9>)
also says that that "mashma qetzas" that the karkov for kohanim
was begeder maaqeh.

R Yechiel Michl Stern (in Ezras Torah) has a peirush on Mes' Middos
called "Beis Hashem" which is illustrated with a maaqeh.


So much for the nice answer that agrees with your premise. I would
agree it's not the common assumption.

The Maasei leMelekh (Hil Beis haBechirah pereq 1) quotes the sifrei that
the kevesh did require a maaqeh. And makes a distinction between the
kevesh, that kohanim would run up, and walking around the mizbeiach
where the kohein stepped heal-to-toe.

Which seems to be saying that the problem is one of safety alone, not
also mitzvas maaqeh, and the deliberate, stately, walk of the kohanim
meant that the risk was minimal.


Side-note:

For a while I belonged to a shul where the duchan was 6 steps up and
ran the full length of the front of the shul. It didn't have a railing.

I asked the rav, who had inherited this layout, why that is. After all,
the shul has a mezuzah and it isn't obligated in mezuzah either! If we
simply cannot picture a Jewish room without a mezuzah, why should it be
okay to picture a Jewish balcony without a maaqeh?

No answer.

But perhaps my train of thought is why the roof of the heikhal did have
a maaqeh, 3 amos high. Or maybe it was just decorative.


Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Friendship is like stone. A stone has no value,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   but by rubbing one stone against another,
Author: Widen Your Tent      sparks of fire emerge. 
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                - Rav Mordechai of Lechovitz



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Message: 8
From: Zev Sero
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 18:28:58 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Who was the safety engineer for the Mikdash?


On 9/6/21 9:44 am, Chaim Tatel via Avodah wrote:
> In Devarim 22:8, the pasuk gives the requirement to put a maakeh (safety 
> rail) on the roof.
> 
> There are many pictures if the large mizbeach (altar) where the animals 
> were offered in the Mikdash.
> 
> I have never seen any pictures showing a safety rail on the mizbeach, 
> neither on the top nor on the ?sovev? where the Kohanim walked around.

The beis hamikdash is not "gagecha" or "beveisecha".  There is no such 
requirement.  See SA Ch"m 427:3 (and see the SME on this se'if), Rambam 
Rotzeach 11:2.

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a healthy summer
z...@sero.name



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Message: 9
From: Zev Sero
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 17:55:15 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] eating for brachot rather than brachot for


On 8/6/21 9:23 pm, Alexander Seinfeld via Avodah wrote:
> They did not eat them because they only ate healthy food.
> Eating for berachot began when Jews stopped paying attention to the
> mitzvah of shmrat haguf (staying healthy).
> My guess is mid-20th Century when unhealthy calories became dirt cheap.
> Alexander Seinfeld
> 
>> Did bnai yeshiva not eat granola bars in the time of Moshe Rabbeinu due
>> to safeik brachot? When did the approach of eating for brachot rather
>> than brachot for eating take off? Why?

I don't know what exactly is meant by "eating for brachos".   Do you 
mean eating something, e.g. fruit, for the purpose of saying an extra 
bracha?  That is a long-established custom on Shabbos, in order to make 
up the 100 brachos.

What I thought at first that you meant, though, was solving a safek 
brachos by eating foods that definitely bear each of the brachos 
involved. E.g. if you want to eat something and you're not sure whether 
it's ha'etz or ha'adama, the practice of eating something that is 
definitely ha'etz and something that is definitely ha'adama, so what you 
actually wanted to eat is covered.  I'm not sure when that started, but 
I assume it's early.


-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a healthy summer
z...@sero.name


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