Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 26

Mon, 22 Mar 2021

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Jay F. Shachter
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 21:45:42 +0000 (WET DST)
Re: [Avodah] avel showering Friday

> Does anyone know a source for the (common) belief that showering is
> ok for an avel on Friday as prep for Shabbos?

I think you need to clarify this common belief, before you ask the

The belief is not -- at least, I hope it is not -- that you may shower
on Friday, to prepare for Shabbath, for yourself.  Rather, the belief
is that public aveluth, on Shabbath, spoils the mood, for others.  If
other people can notice that you have not showered, then your aveluth
is intruding into the public space.  If you smell like roses, the
belief is not -- at least, I hope it is not -- that you may
nevertheless shower because you feel better when you do.  It's not
about you.  It is the same logic that would allow you to stay
(according to some opinions) after the xuppa at your daughter's
wedding, if you are in aveluth -- not because you are allowed to
celebrate her wedding, but because your absence would reduce her
celebration.  Of course, this hetter does not apply to weddings where
there is a mexitza between the men and the women, because then your
daughter cannot know that you are there anyway.

                        Jay F. ("Yaakov") Shachter
                        6424 North Whipple Street
                        Chicago IL  60645-4111
                                (1-773)7613784   landline
                                (1-410)9964737   GoogleVoice

                        "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur"

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Message: 2
From: Prof. L. Levine
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 14:22:41 +0000
[Avodah] Q. I sometimes become hungry and thirsty during

From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis

Q. I sometimes become hungry and thirsty during Maggid. May I eat a snack or drink a coffee?

A. The second cup of wine at the seder is filled after karpas so that
Maggid (the central portion of the Haggadah) will be recited over the cup
of wine. The Mishnah Berurah writes that after filling the cup, it is
inappropriate to drink a separate cup of wine (Be?ur Halachah 473:3 s.v.
Harishus). Both Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Halichos Shlomo, Hil. Pesach
9:34) and Rav Elyashiv (Shevus Yitzchok, Pesach 9:3) maintain that only
wine is restricted, but in cases of necessity, one is permitted to drink
water or coffee. Rav Elyashiv explains that unless there is a pressing
need, even water should be avoided because the Haggadah should be recited
with a sense of awe and reverence (see Mishnah Berurah 473:71).

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Message: 3
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:37:33 -0400
Re: [Avodah] orthodox non-compliance with Covid rules

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 01:14:47PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> If the topic of discussion is Spirit vs Letter of the law, I will cite an
> article I just read, according to which "the Chief Rabbinate of Israel will
> include chametz of Jews in the Diaspora who are not aware of the chametz
> sale contract..."

It's not really the Spirit vs the Letter of the Law, which is a Pauline

It's how much conformance to the spirit of the law are we obligated to
obey beyond its letter.

> I do understand that some poskim allow Mechiras Chometz for someone even
> without their knowledge, but I've always presumed that would be used for
> people who are R"L unconscious and unable to sell it themselves.

I would think because they are unlikely to get hana'ah from the chameitz,
and therefore it's a case of zokhin le'adam shelo befanav.

Here we would have to argue that consuming stolen chameitz is less than an
issur than owning and consuming chameitz. And enough of a clear advantage
that you can invoke "zokhin le'adam".

So, I don't see:
> The Letter of the law says this is a great idea. But the Spirit of the law
> says not.

Because I don't see how the letter of the law says the sale is chal
without the da'as of the maqneh.

So I would have argued the reverse: the spirit of the idea of no Jews owning
chameitz on Pesach says it's a great idea, but it seems to me it would be
the letter of the law that says it's impossible.

As you phrased things, and you feel the halakhos of mechirah are met, there
is a spirit of the law not being violated -- he shouln't want to own chameitz.
I mean, this is far gentler than "kofin oso af al pi she'omer 'Rotzeh ani!'"
I am wondering if there is an "al pi nistar" that is being addressed with
even the flimsiest excuse of a sale.

(While not a Chabad group, founder R Menachem Margolin and most
(? all?) of the other members of RCE and EJA are Lubavitcher
Chassidim. So, when I don't understand what they're doing al pi nigleh,
I wonder if they have some al pi nistar motive.)

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger                 For a mitzvah is a lamp,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   And the Torah, its light.
Author: Widen Your Tent                      - based on Mishlei 6:2
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

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Message: 4
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 12:55:48 -0400
Re: [Avodah] early maariv

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 07:20:30AM +0000, Aryeh Frimer via Avodah wrote:
>     It must be reiterated that no preparations or Melaka can be done
> until Shabbat is over (Tseit haKokhavim). Only then can Yom Tov candles
> be lit and the seder begin.

This is generally what one hears as pesaq. And I understand warning
people not to forget that melakhah is prohibited, even for the seder.
(The RBSO also had to remind us that melakhah is prohibited even for the
Miskan.) But I don't get reason for saying no hakhanah.

I would think that since the seder (or any se'udas Yom Tov) is a devar
mitzvah, a shevus, such as hakhanah, would be allowed during bein
hashemashos. (Assuming no melakhah is involved.)

I found some sources when we discussed this back in v33n46.

The Rambam (Shabbos 254:10), MB 211:28, 30, AhS OC 261:11 (who allows
"lidevar mitzvah o tzorekh harbei", arguably not delaying the seder is

So I don't know why "everyone" bans setting the table, getting the
pillows and kitls out, etc..., until tzeis. It seems to me that the
MB and AhS would agree you could start at sheqi'ah.

Of course, I'm no poseiq. Just wondering about the gap between what I
learned and the generally repeated pesaq.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger                 A pious Jew is not one who worries about his fellow
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   man's soul and his own stomach; a pious Jew worries
Author: Widen Your Tent      about his own soul and his fellow man's stomach.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                     - Rav Yisrael Salanter

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Message: 5
From: Zev Sero
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:57:33 -0400
Re: [Avodah] What is the origin of the custom of not eating

On 19/3/21 12:31 pm, Prof. L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> I note the following in the above. " However, Mishnah Berurah (ibid., 
> citing Shaarei Teshuva 460) maintains that this stringency is not 
> /halachicaly/ mandated,

Of course it isn't.  Literally nobody claims it is.  So what does your 
citation achieve?

Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy 5781
z...@sero.name       "May this year and its curses end
                      May a new year and its blessings begin"

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Message: 6
From: Prof. L. Levine
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 21:58:13 +0000
[Avodah] cRc Kashrus Alerts


Tevilas Keilim Update

Having trouble reading this email? View it in your browser.<{{onlineview()}}>

[KASHRUTH ALERT HEADER] <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrk.cp20.com%2Fclick%2Fg719-2dk4eu-131rbk-b36v4zm0%2F&;data=04%7C01%7Cllevine%40stevens.edu%7C89e29e8bd5434954c4a408d8ed66d413%7C8d1a69ec03b54345ae21dad112f5fb4f%7C0%7C0%7C637520373195169195%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=WboOvWDrgR5drK724Lqm8jE5F1K%2FH5paEG1p%2BxRMfx4%3D&reserved=0>

March 22, 2021

Last year, due to COVID-19 restrictions, consumers who were unable to tovel
their new keilim (utensils) before Pesach were advised to make them
ownerless (mafkir) to exempt them from tevilah.  This was a special
leniency due to COVID-19 when the local mikvaos were closed.

This year, Boruch Hashem. those restrictions have been lifted as the
mikvaos are open and have been deemed safe to use.  Accordingly,  before
using those keilim which were made ownerless last year, one should
?reacquire? them by picking them up and then tovel them (with a bracha, if

Anyone who is still unable to arrange for the tevila of their kelim due to exigent circumstances should be in touch with us for further instructions.

Chag Kasher v'Sameach.


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Message: 7
From: <mco...@touchlogic.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 18:39:14 -0400
[Avodah] updated short (in English) tshuvos from Horav Shlomo


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Message: 8
From: Prof. L. Levine
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:35:27 +0000
[Avodah] A New Mitzvah at the Seder

I have maintained for a long time that the yeshivas and Bais Yaakovs wreck
the Seder each year. To me it is clear from the Gemara in Pesachim that in
the time of the Gemara young children came to the Seder not knowing what to
expect.  They were not primed with booklets filled with divrei Torah. 
Today the children know "everything" since they are taught all sorts of
things about the seder.

I believe that Rav Shimon Schwab also felt to some extent the way I do.  The following is from his Introduction to his Shiurim on the Haggadah:

From my earliest youth, 1 remember that children would ask each
other on the first morning of Pesach, "How long did your Seder take?"
This was true in my youth, and it is still the case today.

If the children were to ask me this now, 1 would answer them, "I
made sure to eat the afikoman before chatzos (midnight)." According
to some poskim, even the recitation of Halle[ should be completed
before chatzos. I must point out that the present-day practice in which
all the children read from the prepared sheets they received in school
is not exactly in accordance with the mitzvah of and you
shall tell to your children, etc. (ibid.). The children have initiated a
new mitzvah of and you shall tell to your father and
mother, which makes it very challenging to perform the mitzvah of
achilas matzah and certainly the achilas a{zkoman - before chatzos.


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