Avodah Mailing List

Volume 38: Number 44

Sun, 31 May 2020

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Zev Sero
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 10:32:58 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] kitniyot


On 27/5/20 12:21 am, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> In Israel, where IIUC the majority of consumers eat kitniyot on Pesach, 
> why would the manufacturers be considered to be mvatlim issur 
> l?chatchila in terms of non-kitniyot eaters buying a product containing 
> trace kitniyot?

Who says they are?  It seems clear to me that so long as these products 
are *labelled* as having been produced exclusively for ochlei kitniyot, 
and the machshirim so advise the manufacturers and the public, the 
mixture that occurs is not with the intent of being mevatel an issur, 
and therefore an Ashkenazi who happens upon one of these products may 
indeed eat it.

The dilemma is that if this is announced and part of the manufacturer's 
plans, then they are mixing it with the intent that the Ashkenazim 
should eat it, and thus according to the Rashba, whom all the major 
machshirim follow lechumra, giving a hechsher on it would constitute 
bitul issur lechatchila.

The fact that the Sefardim are a majority would seem to indicate 
otherwise, as we see in the case of Shabbos that when a nochri does a 
melacha that is "ner le'echad ner leme'ah" we follow the majority of the 
people he did it for, and if 51% of them are nochrim the Jews may 
benefit; however in the case of hechsherim consider the *normal* case 
that machshirim deal with every day, where the vast majority of a 
product's intended consumers are nochrim, and yet they follow the 
Rashba's opinion and do not allow the manufacturer to deliberately add a 
small amount of issur to the product.

Nevertheless, it also seems to me that just as on Shabbos, if the nochri 
himself uses the light, then even if he is the only nochri present all 
the Jews may use it because we assume that his primary intent was for 
himself, so also if an Ashkenazi is invited to a Sefardi home, where the 
cook's primary intent is for his own family and only secondarily for the 
guests, then he may eat everything except actual kitniyot be'ein.  So he 
may eat the meat and vegetables that were cooked with the chickpeas and 
just leave the whole chickpeas behind.


-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy summer
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper



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Message: 2
From: SBA
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 13:59:50 +1000
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] "shemo"s" as an acronym for shenayim miqra


From: Michael Poppers < >
In Avodah V38n41, RSBA replied to
 R'Micha: >> (Note, I learned about "shemo's" as an acronym for shenayim
miqra 
>> from a  chassidishe rebbe in Jr High.
Personally, I have only encountered that acronymn inside the chassidish
veldt.) <<
====
SBA: > See the first Baal Haturim in Parshas Shemos.
-------
.but I cannot find it in my MG or in my ArtScroll BhT, . 
so RSBA, if you have a text that you can digipic/scan or point to, please
let us know
========

Will send you a scan of my Oz Vehadar Chumash as well as from the 2 volume
sefer Baal Haturim 
(published by Feldheim - with comments Shoham Yakar and the Aderes).

I didn't realise that most editions did not have the piece I had mentioned.

A Git Yomtov to all.

SBA




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Message: 3
From: Zev Sero
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 20:45:01 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] free public transport on Shabbos/Yomtov


In NYC, when a section of the subway is shut down over a weekend for 
work to be done, they run free shuttle buses along the closed section, 
stopping at every station along the way.

In the current situation all NYC buses are free, since the front of the 
bus is closed to protect the driver, and all boarding is from the rear.

In some cities there are free buses or streetcars on a regular basis. 
For instance in Pittsburgh all buses within the center of the city are free.

In all these cases, is there any problem with using these services on 
Shabbos or Yomtov?  (For those buses that only stop if someone is 
waiting at the stop or if a passenger has signalled a request to get 
off, assume that one boards only at a stop where someone is already 
waiting, and gets off only when someone has already requested a stop.)

Further, assuming that there is no problem, suppose one boards within an 
eruv, and gets off also within an eruv, but the two eruvin don't touch 
each other.  Obviously one may carry on to the bus, and one may carry on 
the bus, but may one carry off the bus what one brought on board, and 
carry it around in the second eruv?


-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy summer
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper



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Message: 4
From: Zev Sero
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 20:54:42 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Eruv Tavshilim


On 27/5/20 4:42 pm, Prof. L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> Question:? In many communities there is ore than one local rabbi.? If 
> one relied on one in a given year,? and then forgot to make an Eruv 
> Tavshilim the next year, can one then rely on another for this second year?

Even if ones community is small enough to have only one rabbi, surely 
everyone else who remembered to make an eruv also did the same thing, 
having someone take possession of it and declaring that they are making 
the eruv "for us and for all Jews who live in this city".  So the same 
question arises; can one (bediavad, of course) rely each yomtov on a 
different person's eruv and thus go years without making ones own?

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy summer
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper



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Message: 5
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:14:16 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Eruv Tavshilin - Shavuos Erev Shabbos


I am pretty sure we discussed this in the past, but I couldn't find it
in the archive.

Today's eruv tavshilin is a rarity as Friday is Yom Tov mideOraisa. We
are permitting hakhanah on YT deOraisa for Shabbos.

I was wondering how eruv tavshilin works in this case. Why isn't it
ha'aramah?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 49th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   7 weeks in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Malchus sheb'Malchus: What is the ultimate
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                          goal of perfect unity?



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Message: 6
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:36:10 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Why we mourn during the omer Model" in New


On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 02:13:46AM +0100, Chana Luntz via Avodah wrote:
> It depends on the extent to which you privilege the Shulchan Aruch (and the
> Tur on which the Shulchan Aruch is based) over other sources, and your own
> sense of things.  Because both the Shulchan Aruch and the Tur say explicitly
> that the reason we do not marry between Pesach and Asseres until Lag B'Omer
> is because of the death of Rabbi Akiva's students...

And I was adding why their death was a big deal.

The timing of their death was during the one period where the loss of special
avodah was felt AND one it permitted to mourn. So the setting would naturally
connect the emotions of the loss to churban bayis.

So of course the sin people noticed about those who died was a lack of
kavod for each other, a minor form of the same character flaw as sin'as
chinam. A connection to churban bayis.

These were the hope for the future, to rebuild after churban bayis.

And along with their death was a realization that we were far from teshuvah
for the sin that lead to the churban, and a loss of hope of rebuilding in
their day.

In your exchange with REMT as to what about their death we're mourning,
that loss of hope after a chance that we were already rebuilding is what
I think we're mourning.

And not the death alone, nor the narrowing of the mesorah.

Devei R Yishmael was still around, aside from smaller yeshivos. Certainly
had move than the 5 students R Aqiva restarted with. Even though we
rely on R' Aqiva's mesorah and so R Meir to R Yehudah to the Mishnah,
Torah could have survived without these students.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 49th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   7 weeks in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Malchus sheb'Malchus: What is the ultimate
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                          goal of perfect unity?



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Message: 7
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:41:32 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] HaRav M Sternbuch - Why We Eat Dairy Shavuos


Easier solution. In the pasuq (18:8), cream / butter and milk listed
first. If that's chronological sequence, no problems. Who said they
were in the same course as the veal?

But to get back to Shavuos, it would mean he served them two separate
breads. Like the qorban.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha



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Message: 8
From: Zev Sero
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 08:38:58 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Eruv Tavshilin - Shavuos Erev Shabbos


On 28/5/20 3:14 pm, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> I am pretty sure we discussed this in the past, but I couldn't find it
> in the archive.
> 
> Today's eruv tavshilin is a rarity as Friday is Yom Tov mideOraisa. We
> are permitting hakhanah on YT deOraisa for Shabbos.
> 
> I was wondering how eruv tavshilin works in this case. Why isn't it
> ha'aramah?

There are two opinions in the gemara on why Eruv Tavshilin was 
instituted in the first place: Lichvod Shabbos or Lichvod Yomtov.

The first opinion is that it is indeed a ha'arama, and before the takana 
we simply did the ha'arama openly and that was how we prepared for 
Shabbos.  The chachamim never forbade it, because how else could we 
prepare?  But then the chachamim got concerned that this was an insult 
to Shabbos; we were officially saying that Shabbos was a day when we 
were planning to eat only leftovers.  So they decided  require us to 
prepare at least one thing especially for Shabbos, and if we didn't do 
that we would no longer be allowed to use the ha'arama.

The second opinion is that on the contrary, before the takana we didn't 
need any ha'arama.  It was simply permitted to openly prepare on Yomtov 
for Shabbos.  But the chachamim got concerned that this was an insult to 
Yomtov, so they said no more, we must now use a ha'arama, and in order 
to make the ha'arama plausible we must make an eruv and pretend that is 
all we plan to eat on Shabbos, just to save Yomtov's face.

On the first view the ha'arama is permitted as a sort of bediavad, for 
lack of any other alternative.  On the second view, on the contrary, the 
ha'arama itself is the takana, i.e. we're only pretending to use a 
ha'amara when me'ikar hadin we don't even need one.



-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy summer
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper


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