Avodah Mailing List

Volume 37: Number 76

Sat, 21 Sep 2019

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Ben Rothke
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 22:10:33 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Halachik Challenges Facing the IDF, The Mossad and


I came across this shiur from HaRav Asher Weiss: Halachik Challenges Facing
the IDF, The Mossad and The Israeli Police Force

https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/921767/rabbi-asher-weiss/halachik-challenges-facing-the-idf-the-mossad-and-the-israeli-police-force/

I was astounded by the combination of R' Weiss' breadth, depth, and mastery
of a number of non-halachic topics.

Definitely worth a listen.
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Message: 2
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 13:30:57 +0000
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Halachik Challenges Facing the IDF, The Mossad


I came across this shiur from HaRav Asher Weiss: Halachik Challenges Facing the IDF, The Mossad and The Israeli Police Force

https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/921767/rabbi-asher-weiss/halachik-challenges-facing-the-idf-the-mossad-and-the-israeli-police-force/

I was astounded by the combination of R' Weiss' breadth, depth, and mastery of a number of non-halachic topics.

Definitely worth a listen.
================================================================
https://www.torahmusings.com/2017/03/audio-roundup-201712/


Rabbi Asher Weiss -Halachic Challenges Facing the IDF and Mossad Long Term and Indirect Pikuach Nefesh
We haven?t had state institutions for 2,000 years so halacha has a steep
catch up. R?Weiss outlines his approach and some interesting applications.
Money quote??In the Modern World, sometimes halacha is intertwined with
norms and ethical values.?

KVCT
Joel Rich
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Message: 3
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 20:17:08 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] Rambam Sefer Hamitzvot


Do we know what the Rambam?s organizational principal was in the order that he presented the mitzvot?
Kvct
Joel richTHIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE 
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Message: 4
From: Marty Bluke
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 16:21:29 +0300
Subject:
[Avodah] Getting punished or rewarded in olam hazeh


The Gemara in the last amud of krisus has a story with King Yanai and the
Cohen Gadol where Yanai cuts off his hands. Rav Yosef says brich rachmana
that his hands were cut off because he is getting punished in olam hazeh
instead of olam haba. In other places the Gemara says that reshaim are
rewarded in olam hazeh instead of olam haba.

How does that work? If punishment in olam haba is much worse how does the
punishment in olam hazeh take care of it? Likewise, if reward in olam haba
is so much greater how can reward in olam hazeh wipe out your reward in
olam haba?
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Message: 5
From: Zev Sero
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 18:24:05 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Getting punished or rewarded in olam hazeh


On 19/9/19 9:21 am, Marty Bluke via Avodah wrote:

> How does that work? If punishment in olam haba is much worse how does 
> the punishment in olam hazeh take care of it? Likewise, if reward in 
> olam haba is so much greater how can reward in olam hazeh wipe out your 
> reward in olam haba?

Once you've been punished you've been punished.  You don't get punished 
twice for the same offense. E.g. Malkos cancels Kares, even in the times 
of the BHMK, when people used to literally die young from Kares.

-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 5780 to all
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper



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Message: 6
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 17:07:03 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Rambam Sefer Hamitzvot


On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 08:17:08PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> Do we know what the Rambam's organizational principal was in the order
> that he presented the mitzvot?

The structure of Mishneh Torah is explained in the Moreh 3:35-64.
The Seifer haMitzvos is in similar, but not the same, order as the mitzvos
listed in the qoteros to each section of the Yad, and then split into
asei vs lav.

Why not the same is beyond me. Maybe the work of actually compiling
the Yad force shifts in sequence that weren't worked back into Seifer
haMitzvos. Maybe not. Or maybe that's just too balebatishe of an answer
for some people.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                     Time flies...
http://www.aishdas.org/asp               ... but you're the pilot.
Author: Widen Your Tent                          - R' Zelig Pliskin
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF



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Message: 7
From: Marty Bluke
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 23:52:18 +0300
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Getting punished or rewarded in olam hazeh


On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 10:51 PM Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:
> So, we're not talking about counting mitzvos, or collecting their totral
> weight. We're talking about the roshem each mitzvah made on the person.
> Or ch"v, each aveirah.
>
> If a punishment in olam hazah makes the person regret their actions,
> then baasher hu sham changed. If they follow through, it changed more.

How does this explain Reshaim getting their reward in Olam Hazeh instead
of Olam Haba?



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Message: 8
From: Micha Berger
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 20:27:49 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Getting punished or rewarded in olam hazeh


On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 11:52:18PM +0300, Marty Bluke wrote:
> How does this explain Reshaim getting their reward in Olam Hazeh instead
> of Olam Haba?

Well, what's the point of punishing someone in olam hazeh if it won't
spur teshuvah and get them a better place in the long run?

Therefore, instead of the olam haba they're not going to enjoy
anyway, Hashem's Chesed rather than His Din is expressed in
olam hazeh.

Gut Voch!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 We are what we repeatedly do.
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   Thus excellence is not an event,
Author: Widen Your Tent      but a habit.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                 - Aristotle



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Message: 9
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 15:45:22 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] tenet of belief


On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 05:51:40AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> From someone's post elsewhere:
>> A tenet of our belief is that the Torah is unchanging; the oft-repeated
>> adage, 'we do not adapt the Torah to the times, we adapt the times to
>> the Torah' is our creed.

> Perhaps your next piece might be on how this tenet is being reflected in
> an age of rampant materialism and focus on the rights of the individual
> (vs. communal obligation)

Not sure where rampant materialism comes in. But we've seen a lot of
attempts at adaptation to the current emphasis placed on personal
autonomy, rights, self-expression, rather than communal or covenental
obligation.

As for the "someone's post elsewhere":

Not 100%. The Torah's principles have to address the facts on the ground.
Whether we call the change in how we treat deaf mutes in halakhah an
adaptation of the Torah to the times or not, something did change as
the times did.

I saw a feminist argument for halachic change by claiming that perhaps
"nashim" is also not about an innate feature of women, but something
that was sociologically true about them in the past, but is no long.

Thereby attempting to avoid the kind of "adapting the Torah to the times"
most of us would find objectionable by creating a parallel argument
to that of cheiresh.

Somehow, it seems obvious to me it fails. What I can't say is "why".
Maybe it's just my suspicion that his motive had more to do with
adapting values to those of the times, and this is just a means to
jump through the hoop?

And who am I to guess someone else's motives?

So, whlie the cheireish case seems a clearcut avoidance of the problem,
if you think about it more, it's not so clear where the line is.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 "Fortunate indeed, is the man who takes
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   exactly the right measure of himself,  and
Author: Widen Your Tent      holds a just balance between what he can
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    acquire and what he can use." - Peter Latham


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