Avodah Mailing List

Volume 37: Number 48

Fri, 14 Jun 2019

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Lawrence Levine
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:02:38 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] Man and Woman He Created Them: Torah View of


This topic was discussed by Rabbi Efrem Goldberg in 2015.  You may listen to his talk at


https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/837346/rabbi-efrem-goldberg/man-and-woman-he-created-them-torah-view-of-transgender/

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Message: 2
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:26:33 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Man and Woman He Created Them: Torah View of


On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 06:02:38PM +0000, Lawrence Levine via Avodah wrote:
: This topic was discussed by Rabbi Efrem Goldberg in 2015.  You may listen to his talk at
: https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/837346

Related is the beraisa on the top of Yevamos 83a in which R' Yosi says
an andogynous is a berya bifnei atzmo, and the discussion as to whether
the beraisa has authority in the face of a mishnah.

However, the notion of a middle sex is at least taken seriously, and not
"merely" as a safeiq sex.

However, I haven't seen any ground in the Torah for the sex vs gender
distinction being used to model these things in modern Western discourse.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Imagine waking up tomorrow
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   with only the things
Author: Widen Your Tent      we thanked Hashem for today!
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF



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Message: 3
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:13:26 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] Call the midwife


Kiddushin 73b states we believe the midwife to tell us which twin came out
first. The Ran on the Rif on Kiddushin 31a states a midwife's credibility
is not "mdin" (from the law) but the Rabbis believed her because in the
majority of cases, there's no other way. 1.) How did HKB"H expect this to
work prior to the Rabbinic injunction? (this applies to other examples as
well where the halachic gold standard of two witnesses is relaxed) 2.) Is
it related to R'Moshe's (self-knowledge) and "neemanut" (trust).[see Iggrot
Moshe Y"D 1:54]
KT
Joel Rich

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Message: 4
From: Rich, Joel
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:15:16 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] time/space continuum


Take a look at S"A O"C 441 (1 & 2) where there's a loan/surety
situation over Pesach between a ben brit and non ben brit where the whole
space/time continuum thing is in play (the agreement is the surety belongs
to the lender as of the date of the loan [prior to Pesach] if, and only if,
the repayment is not made on the due date [during or after Pesach]). While
the S"A seems straightforward (me - compare to the quantum physics/double
slit once there is an observer) the M"B quotes a number of commentaries who
seem unsure. Perhaps Chametz/Pesach is different but it seems an
undetermined state is a challenge halachically (me - are bein hashmasot and
koy chiddushim or paradigms?)
KT
Joel Rich

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Message: 5
From: Marty Bluke
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:31:50 +0300
Subject:
[Avodah] Credit cards and kinyonim


I am struggling as to how to fit in credit card purchases into a halachik
framework. The question is when I buy something with a credit card what is
the kinyan?
Everyone agrees that kesef, money, does not work to acquire metaltlim so
even if a credit card is kesef it shouldn?t work. Additionally, credit
cards would seem to not be kesef as the buyer is not actually paying
anything, the merchant when he swipes the card receives a promise from the
credit card company that it will pay him. The buyer is not paying the
seller anything.
The other option is situmta which is whatever is common practice to close a
deal is considered a kinyan.
However, if we go with situmta then basically we can ask why does the Torah
have this elaborate set of kinyonim and so much Torah is devoted to them
when they are basically irrelevant and have been superseded by a man made
system?
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Message: 6
From: Lawrence Levine
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:58:08 +0000
Subject:
[Avodah] Rav Nosson Kamenetsky, zt?l


Please see the article at


https://cross-currents.com/2019/06/09/rav-nosson-kamenetsky-ztl/


I found the following from the article most interesting.


My most vivid memory of him was of an exchange just a few months ago. The
last time I visited him in his apartment, my son asked him a difficult
question about how to explain some apparent shortcomings in the community
to his own children. At one point, my son pushed him to better define one
of his answers. ?But what does Daas Torah say about that?? my son asked.
Rav Nosson looked him straight in the eye and responded, ?Daas Torah is
that you should use your own brain!? He could hardly be called a
free-thinker (like the European maskilim were called), but he put
individual sechel on a pedestal. I can?t think of a quality that is so
often in short supply, and that will be so sorely missed.

I sincerely wish that more people would subscribe to this approach to Daas Torah!!!!!


YL
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Message: 7
From: Saul Guberman
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:51:33 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Credit cards and kinyonim


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 8:22 AM Marty Bluke wrote:
> I am struggling as to how to fit in credit card purchases into a halachik
> framework. The question is when I buy something with a credit card what is
> the kinyan?

The kinyan can be when you take the goods with you or are delivered into
your possession.  Not sure how that would work for intangibles like apps,
music and the like.



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Message: 8
From: Marty Bluke
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:09:46 +0300
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Credit cards and kinyonim


On Thursday, June 13, 2019, Saul Guberman <saulguber...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The kinyan can be when you take the goods with you or are delivered into
> your possession.  Not sure how that would work for intangibles like apps,
> music and the like.
>
That would mean that internet purchases don?t really happen until you get
the actual goods. Not the way it is generally looked at
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Message: 9
From: Aharon Gal
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:59:20 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Trop Metigah ("Kadma - Zakef Katon")


I am curious to know how Ba?alei Keriah leins a word that has a Metigah.
I used the term Metigah, but there are other names to it. The Yemenites call it Dorban.
Some call it Kadma-Zakef Katon.  I don?t use this term, as the siman above the letter is not Kadma, it is only the same siman that Kadma uses.
Some call it Pashta Katon. I dont like this term either, for the same reason that I dont like the terem Kadma-Zakef Katon.

In a word like ??????????????? (Levinyamin), some emphasize both the the
Zakef Katon and the ?Kadma? (the ?not kadma??), which i dont know if this
is correct or not,
because this ?Kadma? is not a ta?am, but Metiga. Some treats it as a Meteg.
But also those who treat it as a Meteg, or secondary accent, I am not sure
if they need to 
accent the letter under the metiga, or may be the metiga is always (almost) at the same place, but not necessarily the accent is (compare Telishot).
Most uses special nigun (?melody?) for a word that has Metiga-Zakef Katon, but I am curious to know if in addition to it they pronounce the Metiga as well.

Aharon
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Message: 10
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:04:08 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] time/space continuum


On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 09:15:16AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: Take a look at S"A O"C 441 (1 & 2) where there's a loan/surety situation
: over Pesach between a ben brit and non ben brit where the whole space/time
: continuum thing is in play (the agreement is the surety belongs to the
: lender as of the date of the loan [prior to Pesach] if, and only if, the
: repayment is not made on the due date [during or after Pesach]). While
: the S"A seems straightforward (me - compare to the quantum physics/double
: slit once there is an observer) the M"B quotes a number of commentaries
: who seem unsure. ...

Since this is before measurement, I think this is less like quantum
uncertainty and more a simple case of yeish bereiera vs ein bereira.

:-)BBii!
-Micha


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