Avodah Mailing List

Volume 36: Number 111

Sun, 30 Sep 2018

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Ben Waxman
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 00:30:41 +0200
[Avodah] Rav Melamed: What food obligates you to eat in a

Two piskei halacha from Rav Melamed:

1) https://ph.yhb.org.il/13-03-04/ : A real meal (eg meat & vegetables 
but one that doesn't include bread or grain) means one must sit in a 
Sukka (ikkar hadin, not just a chumra).

2) https://ph.yhb.org.il/13-03-05/ : One who eats such a meal (again, 
even w/o grain) says the bracha lasheiv b'sukka.

These pages are in Hebrew but Google Translate suffices.

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Message: 2
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 17:40:25 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Abortion - Rav Asher Weiss

On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 10:14:34AM -0400, Michael Poppers via Avodah wrote:
: In Avodah V36n99, R'Micha wrote
:> After all, the fetus
:> has a potential of future shemiras Shabbos even if it didn't yet
:> become a person.
: When do we consider potential (as opposed to actual) in Halacha? ...

Well, what about RAWeiss's own starting point: "chalel alava Shabbos
achas kedei sheyishmor Shabbasos harbeih"?
One can be mechalel Shabbos for a person in a coma because of their
*potential* of possibly observing Shabbos (at least moments thereof)
in the future.

It is that same potential he is ascribing a fetus. And since it's
about the future, one needn't be concerned with whether the future
potential shmomeir Shabbos exists yet or not.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             A wise man is careful during the Purim banquet
mi...@aishdas.org        about things most people don't watch even on
http://www.aishdas.org   Yom Kippur.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rav Yisrael Salanter

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Message: 3
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 17:45:49 -0400
Re: [Avodah] kaddish yatom by non-mourner

On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 12:55:33AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: I believe there is a disagreement as to whether a request like this
: is covered by kavod av. If it is not, why wouldn't the child have the
: right to say he wants the mitzvah of getting the congregation to say
: yhei shmei rabba (or at least ask the parent to ask for guidance from
: their halachic authority)

This makes sense to me. Unlike my own case, where the motive is saying
qaddish for a daughter* on her yahrzeit. There is no loss to the minyan,
typically, as we aren't talking about a minyan where everyone else has
living parents with an equal right to be maqpidim.

(* Kayli a"h was born first day sh"m Sukkos, so this is particularly on
my mind...)

I guess the question is whether a missed qaddish is enough to trump
kivud av va'eim, or does it have to be that they asked the child to
violate a full fledged lav or to ignore a chiyuv asei.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             The same boiling water
mi...@aishdas.org        that softens the potato, hardens the egg.
http://www.aishdas.org   It's not about the circumstance,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      but rather what you are made of.

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Message: 4
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 17:56:32 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Yasis Alayikh

On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 12:40:16AM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: "Never"? A good example of where it clearly *does* have that meaning would
: be Devarim 24:1 - "Ki yikach ish ishah uv'alah", which Kiddushin 4b
: understands as "a woman can be acquired via biah."

Which it has to, because "ki yiqach" refers to qiddushin in general. Thus
qedushin via kesef is learned from g"sh "qichah qichah miSdei Efron".

So, if it "uvaalah" referred to becoming a husband, the pasuq would
be repetitive.

As for our pasuq in Yeshaiyah, the middle clause is jarring. Neither
marriage nor sexual intimacy are metaphors one would mix with the
parent-child metaphor.

I am surprised I am the first to quote this contrary use of "sas al":
"Sas anokhi al imrasekha, kemotzei shalal rav." (Tehillim 119:162)
So "sas al" is a normal prepositional phrase for "rejoicing about".

It really boils down to the context provided by the reiaha of the

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
mi...@aishdas.org        but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
http://www.aishdas.org   tasks as if they were great and noble.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                              - Helen Keller

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Message: 5
From: <mgl...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 23:49:44 -0400
Re: [Avodah] mixed prayers at the Kotel

R? YL:
But there is a viable alternative.? A dome covering could be built over the
Kosel plaza as has been done in certain athletic fields.. It could be made
of a transparent material so the sun and stars could be seen.

I wonder if something like R' YL's suggestion would be better for security
purposes, too?


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Message: 6
From: Professor L. Levine
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:11:21 +0000
[Avodah] Sukka on Shmini Atzeres?

As the sun sets on Hoshana Rabba, effectively ending the holiday of Sukkos,
an annual machlokes dawns. As with much related to the Yomim Tovim,
different minhagim come to the forefront this time of year. Not just the
Sukkos-long variances as to the proper method of nanuim with the Lulav and
Esrog, nor the correct order of the Ushpizin. Rather, this author is
referring to sitting in the Sukka on Shmini Atzeres. Is it an obligation or
recommendation? Prohibited or permitted? Why do some go to great lengths to
make sure to eat or even sleep in the Sukka on this day, while others will
make due with a simple Kiddush or even less?

To find out why, read the full article "Insights Into Halacha: Sukka on
Shmini Atzeres?<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsable.madmimi.com%2Fc%2F10500%3Fid%3D220237.1087.1.ce78029a14acd56dbefa989d34f857bd&;data=02%7C01%7Cllevine%40stevens.edu%7C8224445e9254496d7ef608d624588a86%7C8d1a69ec03b54345ae21dad112f5fb4f%7C0%7C0%7C636736360041346487&sdata=%2BHAB%2B4GlBjNHotxJGiE9vuKOuvWdnRySMGLVrkRtkv4%3D&reserved=0>"
For all of the Mareh Mekomos / sources, just ask.

Insights Into Halacha<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsable.madmimi.com%2Fc%2F10500%3Fid%3D220237.1088.1.0a15850b11365a9f9b71f618b1aef89c&;data=02%7C01%7Cllevine%40stevens.edu%7C8224445e9254496d7ef608d624588a86%7C8d1a69ec03b54345ae21dad112f5fb4f%7C0%7C0%7C636736360041356496&sdata=yIjAxn9WqtX0QAtTYxP1N%2Fhqn1IUTLTOZNFkG41FjIM%3D&reserved=0>
is a weekly series of contemporary Halacha articles for Ohr Somayach. If
you enjoyed the article, please share it with friends and family. To sign
up to receive weekly articles simply email me.


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Message: 7
From: Micha Berger
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:17:45 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Sukka on Shmini Atzeres?

The gemara (Sukkah 47a) tells you what to do: meisiv havu yasvei, berukhei
lo berikhei. Open and shut, no? Sit in the Sukkah without a berakhah.


The Minchas Elazar punctuates differently, "Meisiv havu yasvei, berukhei
lo berikhei? -- Could it be that for sitting, they would have you sit, but
for making the berakhah, that would not have you make the berakhah?" Which
kind of fits the repeated language, as it does fit that kind of bitmiyah
interpretation. Although the doubling is also present in a hava amina of
"berukhei nami mevorkhnan".

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             The greatest discovery of all time is that
mi...@aishdas.org        a person can change their future
http://www.aishdas.org   by merely changing their attitude.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                   - Oprah Winfrey

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Message: 8
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:18:48 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Choices?

On Fri, Sep 07, 2018 at 11:50:34AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
:>:>: Does HKB"H view it as equivalent to any other choice one could've made or
:>:>: is one dinged for the original choice when it was made? [is moving into
:>:>: an apartment building knowing one will need to use a manned elevator on
:>:>: Shabbat another example? How about certain medical specialties ]
:> That question had a nafqa mina lemaaseh? I missed it.

: Yes-consider a med student who has a slight preference to be an emergency
: medicine md but could just as well become a dermatologist. Assumedly
: the latter would be less likely to put one in questionable situations
: in the future.

But the question you raised was not whether he should choose emergency
medicine or dermatology.

Rather, it was whether the person is judged for picking a specialty that
would have more situations that would require qulos / heterim or whether
he is judged individually for each act of reliance on that qulah or

And for that, I don't see a nafqa mina lemaaseh.

And my comment:
:>:> Questions like these are unanswerable, since we can't know how Hashem
:>:> judges.

Stands, since "ba'asher hu sham" implies we are less judged for the
action in-and-of-itself, but the state of the soul. Which, in part,
would include the effects of having lived through choices.

(BTW, your example only mentions "questionable situations" -- I presume
you mean hilkhos Shabbos. It ignores the zekhuyos of being in more
opportunities for hatzalas nefashos. And since even safeiq piquach nefesh
trumps Shabbos, it's likely that you buried the lead by focusing on the
lesser issue. But that's about your example, not our discussion.)

:> Why would you think it's positive? It is not like he thereby moved his
:> nequdas habechirah in the right direction. Unless maybe, it was an
:> aveirah be'oneis lishmah. And we haven't revisited aveirah lishmah (even
:> without the "be'oneis" in years. We're due!

: Rabbi Chananya ben Akashya said:1 "The Holy One, blessed be He, wished
: to make the people of Israel meritorious; therefore He gave them Torah
: and mitzvos in abundant measure, as it is written:2 'The Lrd desired,
: for the sake of his [Israel's] righteousness, to make the Torah great
: and glorious.'"

: some mfarshim explain 1. As avoiding a prohibition is not just neutral
: but rewarded

Yes, avoiding. Because the battle with the yeitzer moves the nequdas
habechirah away from sin. Each time a person avoids a cheit, the next
avoidance is easier.

But a case of "oneis rachmana patrei"? If anything, the nequdas
habechirah is moved the wrong way... the person learned that the sky
didn't fall. Something done once be'oneis is now closer to the repetoir of
choices. Patrei -- the person isn't held accountable for that damage. But
how would it change a person for the better?


Micha Berger             You will never "find" time for anything.
mi...@aishdas.org        If you want time, you must make it.
http://www.aishdas.org                     - Charles Buxton
Fax: (270) 514-1507

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Message: 9
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:33:58 -0400
Re: [Avodah] vidui with a list

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 10:32:45PM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: A rav I heard today gave a suggestion that instead of (or in addition
: to) a commentary on the al cheit, people should make short list of
: things that they need to say "al cheit" on. Look at that list when
: you say the al cheit.

The Chayei Adam has a long list of suggestions, in alef-beis order, like
Ashamnu. See siman 143, which R' Jon Baker translated in 1999 and put
up online at http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker/vidui.htm

In capital-M Mussar, a person was keeping a cheshbon hanefesh all year.
(Or, more realistically, most had ChN notes for stretchs of the year
until resolve flagged, restarting when they felt bad that they let it
drop, etc...) And reviewing that ChN in late Elul and the 10 Yemei
Teshuvah was de rigor.

You can then see patterns. The things we think we're messing up on may
not be the core point of the problem; a symptom, not the disease. Or
conversly, may be too core to tackle head on; you might choose to chip
away at the edges. (And, sadly, how much it looks like last year's list
of things to work on. <sigh>)

Making meaningful qabbalos about what to work on during the next year
and a more on-topic vidui are natural fallouts.


Micha Berger             What you get by achieving your goals
mi...@aishdas.org        is not as important as
http://www.aishdas.org   what you become by achieving your goals.
Fax: (270) 514-1507              - Henry David Thoreau

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Message: 10
From: Professor L. Levine
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 09:43:14 +0000
[Avodah] Simchas Torah & a Lost Minhag of the Gra

From Simchas Torah & a Lost Minhag of the Gra

Chol HaMoed Succos is the Yarzheit of the Vilna Gaon (for an earlier post
on the Gra see here<http://seforim.blogspot.com/2007/10/pitfalls-of-disagreeing-with-gra.html>
and here<http://seforim.blogspot.com/2010/05/review-bekurim-with-gra-commentary.html>).
In this post I hope to show a source for a ?forgotten? Minhag of the Gra.
In 1921 the great bibliographer (and much more) Yitzchak Rivkind described
a strange custom he saw during the time he learned in Volozhin (after it
was reopened and headed by R? Rephael Shapiro), in an article about Minhag
HaGra. On Simchas Torah they would open the Aron Kodesh when saying Aleinu,
both at night and during the day, and while singing the Niggun of Mussaf of
Yom Kippur would bow on the floor exactly like we do on Rosh Hashonah and
Yom Kippur. When he asked for the source of this Minhag he was told it
comes from the Gra. When he visited Vilna sometime later he found the only
place that they observed this unique Minhag was in the Kloiz of the Gra,
but nowhere else in Vilna.

See the above URL for more.

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Message: 11
From: Zalman Alpert
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 07:34:48 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Simchas Torah & a Lost Minhag of the Gra

On Sep 30, 2018 5:43 AM, "Professor L. Levine" <llev...@stevens.edu> wrote:
> From *Simchas Torah & a Lost Minhag of the Gra*
> In this post I hope to show a source for a "forgotten" Minhag of the Gra.
> In 1921 the great bibliographer (and much more) Yitzchak Rivkind ...
>               On Simchas Torah they would open the Aron Kodesh when
> saying Aleinu, both at night and during the day, and while singing the
> Niggun of Mussaf of Yom Kippur would bow on the floor exactly like we do on
> Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur. When he asked for the source of this Minhag
> he was told it comes from the Gra. When he visited Vilna sometime later he
> found the only place that they observed this unique Minhag was in the Kloiz
> of the Gra, but nowhere else in Vilna.

The kluiz of the GRaA in Vilna was essentially the only place in Vilna
and all of Lithuania that followed minhage HAgra to the kotzo shel yud
Chaim Grade a lost talmid of the Chazon Ish and a Vilna native mentions
this in his wonderful novels about shil life in Vilna

Because the Jslm settlement in early 19th cen was started by disciples
of the GRAthe Rivlins,etc these minhogim becamr and remain the standard
for at least the yishuv hayoshen of Jslm and beyond that group

And thats how we know these customs in realism rather than from seforim
The Litthuanian yrshivas did not follow these customs nor did kohol,and
certainly not the chassidim of Lithuania who after WwI played an impt
role in Jew rel life in greater lita including Vilna

A gut kvittel

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Message: 12
From: Cantor Wolberg
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:11:24 -0400
[Avodah] V'zos Hab'racha

The gemara, masechta Makkos brings a proof that there
are 613 mitzvos from the portion V?zos Hab?racha (33:4),
"Torah tziva lanu Moshe.?
This is how it is explained: Only 2 commandments were
directly heard from God which were ?I am the Lord Your God Who
brought you out of the land of Egypt? and ?Thou shalt have no other
gods before Me.? 
After that all of the other mitzvot were heard by the people through Moshe.

So the gematria of Torah is 611 (which they heard through Moshe) and
the only 2 heard directly from God comprise the 613. The gemara goes on to
explain that the first mitzvah (?I am the Lord your God?) encompasses all of the
248 positive mitzvot and the second mitzvah (?Thou shalt have no 
other gods?) encompasses all of the 365 negative mitzvos.

There is a fascinating symbol to the breakdown of the numbers 248 and 365.
According to the gemara there are 248 organs in the body and we are to act
positively with every part of our being. Obviously, the 365 refers to the days of the 
solar year and we are to be circumspect in what we are not allowed to do every
day of our lives (even when we were in high school; however, we have Yom Kippur
to atone and change).

Our prayers should be for blessings in general, for God knows best what is good for us.
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