Volume 35: Number 34
Mon, 20 Mar 2017
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: via Avodah
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 19:42:13 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Will Purim Be The Only Yom Tov Left Standing
From: Eli Turkel via Avodah avo...@lists.aishdas.org
Subject: [Avodah] Will Purim Be The Only Yom Tov Left Standing After
Moshiach Comes? Let's Take a Closer Look
>> ...We all study how Mordecai and
Esther were the heroes of Purim. The possible objections of members of the
Sanhedrin has been lost in the dustbins of history. Yes it would be nice
if Joseph would have been learning Torah all day instead of being viceroy to
Pharoh but in the end he saved the family and so Jewish history.
I am sure that even major gedolim like R Yehudah haNasi "wasted" time on
political leadership and not just pure Torah matters. I remember a story of
one of the RY of Telshe (1950-1970s) lamented on the time he spent going
around the world collecting money for the yeshiva instead of just teaching
Torah. Sure there was a cost but he provided for many others to learn
Torah. <<
Eli Turkel
>>>>>
One of my brothers found a tape after my father was niftar, a tape of my
father speaking. In it, my father z'l said that congregants don't realize
how much a rav sacrifices for them. Besides obvious things like time,
energy, family life, privacy and income, a shul rav loses time and menucha for
his own learning. My father said that was the hardest of all for him, not
having time to learn Torah. Of course he was always teaching, preparing
shiurim and so on, but that's not the same.
I felt sad when I heard that recording. What comforted me was that I read
or heard somewhere that whatever Torah learning a person is not able to
accomplish in this life because of his devotion to the klal and to tzorchei
tzibbur, is given to him in Olam Haba.
--Toby Katz
t6...@aol.com
..
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Message: 2
From: Rabbi Meir G. Rabi
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:17:37 +1100
Subject: [Avodah] Pesach - Lecithin does not render chocolate non-KLP
Do Kitniyos prohibit a food for Ashkenasim during Pesach, even if they are
just a minor component of that food?
No, unless they are visibly discernible, in which case they must be
removed; the remaining food however may be consumed.
However Kitniyos added in defiance of the known custom, will attract a
penalty. This penalty prohibits the food to those who added the Kitniyot
and for those whom the food was prepared. [implied in the Rema and M"B] It
is permitted however, to others for whom it was not prepared. In short it
can be offered as a gift to friends. It can even be sold to neighbours as
long as it was not manufactured with that purpose in mind.
May I eat during Pesach, foods containing Kitniyos?
Yes. For example, regular chocolate may be eaten during Pesach. Many
mistakenly believe that regular chocolate may not be used on Pesach since
it contains Lecithin. [used as an emulsifier (just a fancy word meaning it
helps all the ingredients stay together as a very smooth paste - if you
make your own mayonnaise, you add egg yolk as an emulsifier to make a
smooth emulsion (a cream; oil and water do not readily combine) which may
be produced from what some consider to be Kitniyos]
As per the Mishneh Berurah 453:8 & 9, even if it is Kitniyos it is
permitted since:
Its proportion is small enough to be Halachically insignificant,
It is certainly not visibly discernible, and
It has been manufactured for the non-Jewish or the Jewish non-Passover
market.
May an Ashkenasi add such proportions to foods being prepared for Pesach,
before or during Pesach?
Not during Pesach. Before Pesach some permit and others prohibit it.
Best,
Meir G. Rabi
0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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Message: 3
From: Rabbi Meir G. Rabi
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:56:15 +1100
Subject: [Avodah] KaVuA and Rov
Rov can only be applied where there is a TaAruvos, a mixture
The minor part is lost and becomes insignificant
Our Safek is really only a minor part of the issue
Unlike KaVuA
there is no TaAruvos
there is no Bittul
the entire issue is created simply because we do not know what is going on
meat found in the street is as though all the shops are MeUrav
when we go shopping and no longer remember if we picked up the sausages for
the dog [Neveilah] or for the family, there is a Safek but it is not caused
by a TaAruvos
Best,
Meir G. Rabi
0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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Message: 4
From: Rabbi Meir G. Rabi
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:59:23 +1100
Subject: [Avodah] Will someone explain why it might be necessary to
Will someone explain why it might be necessary to Kasher a kitchen pull
down sprayer hose for Pesach?
Best,
Meir G. Rabi
0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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Message: 5
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 06:32:57 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] kavua/Rov
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:56:15AM +1100, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
: Rov can only be applied where there is a TaAruvos, a mixture
: The minor part is lost and becomes insignificant
: Our Safek is really only a minor part of the issue
1- What about safeiq de'leisa leqaman? Isn't that more statistics than
any real group that could be called a mixture?
2- Bitul betaaroves and ruba de'isa leqaman differ in another way --
in the case of bitul, there is no parish. For example, if two liquids
mixed, the person is definitely eating something that once was assur,
just in ignorible quantities. In the case of saeif, we do not know
whether the kol deparish was the issur or not.
I see that RYGB blogged about R/Prof Aumann's Moral Hazard Theory,
adding R' Gedalia Nadel's shitah.
http://rygb.blogspot.com/2017/03/r-gedalia-nadels-explanation-of-ka
vua.html
Please do not rely on this summary, I am not swearing my translation is
accurate!
RGN too makes qavua vs parish a matter of how humans perceive the world.
In the case of 9 chaniyos (qavua), people are aware of the store that
sells issur. However, if it's just found in the street, people are merely
wondering about issur ("ein kan issur mevurar", to use the original
terminology..
A student asked if this is because of Kantian notions of the
phenomenological universe. (We can't really know what's out there, our
universe is really specific to how humans perceive and categorize things.)
RGN said one needn's rely on Kant. Mitzvos are to act on the soul of a
person and shape moral character. Therefore we only care about how the
people involved see the world, not how it is.
BARUKH SHKIVANTI! I've been saying this about safeiq, qavua, chazaqah,
terei uterei, invisible bugs, etc... longer than we've had this list!
RYBS adds (transliterations, mine):
> Today it struck me that, furthermore, there may well be some parallel
> between [samukh mi'uta lechazaqah ve'isra bei ruba] and [qavua]!
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger I always give much away,
mi...@aishdas.org and so gather happiness instead of pleasure.
http://www.aishdas.org - Rachel Levin Varnhagen
Fax: (270) 514-1507
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Message: 6
From: Zev Sero
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:41:36 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Will someone explain why it might be necessary
On 19/03/17 19:59, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
> Will someone explain why it might be necessary to Kasher a kitchen pull
> down sprayer hose for Pesach?
Hot chametz may have splattered on it during the year. Now if you use it
to spray hot water on the dishes you've got a problem.
--
Zev Sero May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name be a brilliant year for us all
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Message: 7
From: Zev Sero
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:38:05 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Pesach - Lecithin does not render chocolate
On 19/03/17 19:17, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
> May I eat during Pesach, foods containing Kitniyos?
>
> Yes. For example, regular chocolate may be eaten during Pesach. Many
> mistakenly believe that regular chocolate may not be used on Pesach
> since it contains Lecithin.
Provided that it has a hechsher for Pesach. Without one how do you know
it doesn't contain a mashehu or beliah of chametz? But an Ashkenazi
agency can't give it such a hechsher, because that would make it bittul
lechatchila. So the only practical upshot is that if it has a Sefardi
hechsher for Pesach then Ashkenazim can eat it too.
--
Zev Sero May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name be a brilliant year for us all
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Message: 8
From: Andy Levy-Stevenson
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:08:42 +0200
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Kosher for Passover Chocolate Only If Purchased
> From: Zev Sero via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org>
>
>
> What hashgacha? There is no hashgacha, and none is even *purported* to
> exist. What is cited is a psak from this person that one may eat these
> products *without* any certification, because whatever minuscule amount
> of chametz might be present was batel lach belach before the issur was
> chal, and is not chozer vene'or. So why before the bedika rather than
> before the bi'ur? Probably a miscommunication, but perhaps a gezera for
> people who pay no attention to zmanei hayom.
>
>
I have absolutely no idea of their KFP status, beyond what's written in
this thread.
But a brief investigation shows that the chocolate is certified kosher
(presumably year-round).
http://shop.equalexchange.coop/chocolate/chocolate-
bars/organic-extreme-dark-chocolate.html
"Kosher Pareve Certified in Switzerland by Rabbi Abraham Hochwald, Chief
Rabbi of the Northern Rhine-Germany."
http://shop.equalexchange.coop/chocolate/chocolate-bars/org
anic-milk-chocolate.html
"Kosher Dairy Certified in Switzerland by Rabbi Abraham Hochwald, Chief
Rabbi of the Northern Rhine-Germany.
The text about certification links through to this page:
http://kosher-germany.com/koshergermany/en/
I've never heard of this kashrut agency ... but that means very little,
I've no doubt that there are hundreds of agencies that are unknown to me.
--
Andy Levy-Stevenson
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Message: 9
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:47:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] kavua/Rov
Also, an AhS Yomi connection...
If a woman had premarital relations and we need to determine if she can
marry a kohein, we follow rov if the man approached her, because that is
kol deparish. However, if she went to the guy, it's qavua. And so, we
need to know if the trist happened in town or in a location people travel
to, what the majority of the men in that town are (SA EhE 6:18, AhS s' 37),
etc...
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger A cheerful disposition is an inestimable treasure.
mi...@aishdas.org It preserves health, promotes convalescence,
http://www.aishdas.org and helps us cope with adversity.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - R' SR Hirsch, "From the Wisdom of Mishlei"
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Message: 10
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:07:59 +0200
Subject: [Avodah] customs that no longer make sense
This past shabbat I was in a Yemenite (Baladi) shul for a Bar Miztvah
(triplet boys)
Besides trying to understand the accent and an hour and 40 minute laining
after every
pasuk the targum of onkeles was said.
While this once had some purpose today the targum is a translation from a
language that the congregants understand to one they don't understand. Is
there any purpose in a custom which does the exact opposite of its original
intent?
--
Eli Turkel
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Message: 11
From: M Cohen
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:51:22 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] kashering question
anyone have any idea of how to kasher a faucet that has a pull down sprayer
hose ?
http://www.cor.ca/view/787/cor_passover_magazine_20175777.html
see pg 32
extend and dip in boiling water (be careful if plastic)
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Message: 12
From: Zev Sero
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 11:30:55 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] customs that no longer make sense
On 20/03/17 09:07, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
> This past shabbat I was in a Yemenite (Baladi) shul for a Bar Miztvah
> (triplet boys)
> Besides trying to understand the accent and an hour and 40 minute
> laining after every
> pasuk the targum of onkeles was said.
>
> While this once had some purpose today the targum is a translation from a
> language that the congregants understand to one they don't understand. Is
> there any purpose in a custom which does the exact opposite of its original
> intent?
You're lucky they no longer do the tarjum into Arabic as well! Back in
Yemen they used to do two tarjumim, Aramaic because it's takonath Hazal,
and Arabic because that was the only language most people understood.
And yes, the leining is long, not just because of the tarjum and the
heisofoth, but also because the te'amim are long. I usually stand for
leining, but I make an exception at Temani shuls.
--
Zev Sero May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name be a brilliant year for us all
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Message: 13
From: Cantor Wolberg
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 12:27:27 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Shabbos Hachodesh
1) It says (Ch.12:verse 2): "This month shall be for you..." Before this,
God had reserved the right to fix the months; now He surrendered it to the
Children of Israel. (Midrash)
Another explanation by Sforno: Heretofore, time was at the mercy of Israel?s masters; now it was at its own command.
2) "Sun and Moon" (from the Sefat Emet) - Israel orders its calendar by the moon, for it is used to living in the night of history.
3) I came across a very strange Midrash which is quite contrary to what we assume the spirit of Passover to be.
It is entitled Passover and Kol Nidre. Ch.12:43 "(Hashem said to Moses
and Aaron, 'This is the decree of the pesach offering: no alienated
person may eat from it).?
The word for alienated person is ben naychor which refers to two kinds
of people: (a)a Jewish mumar, apostate, i.e. one who worships idols,
desecrates the Sabbath
or denies the validity of any of the Torah's commandments; and (b) a
non-Jew. Rashi comments that neither may participate in or eat from
the pesach offering,
because they are alienated from belief in the Torah. So the Midrash
renders "apostate" as the sinner par excellence. This rendition makes
possible a comparison
between the eve of Passover and the eve of Atonement when, in the Kol
Nidre prayer, the congregation is expressly allowed to include sinners.
Why the difference?
If sinners come to weep and atone with us (on Yom Kippur), they are
welcome; but when they join us only to rejoice and eat with us (on
Passover), they are not.
On closer examination this does make sense. It is in a sense saying that even the worst sinner can repent and THEN be part of the fold.
But if all he or she wants is to reap the benefits of religion, then it is unacceptable.
4) (A quote from the Talmud: Nazir, 23b) "As one should not be slow when baking matza, lest it leaven, so one should not be slow when performing a mitzvah.
"Time goes by so fast. Nothin' can outrun it. Death commences too early?almost before you're half acquainted with life?and then, you meet the other..."
Act 3 of Tennessee William?s Cat on a Hot Tin Roof
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Message: 14
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:12:09 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Farfetched Ukimtas
On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:02:42AM +0200, Marty Bluke wrote:
: Anyone who learns Gemara knows that many times the Gemara asks a question
: on an Amora from a Tannaic source and the Gemara asnswers the question by
: saying "hacha b'my askinan ...", saying that the Tannaic source was only
: talking about a specific case which doesn't contradict the Amora's
: statement. Sometimes the Gemara offers far fetched ukimtas where it is hard
: to believe that the Tannaic source really meant that...
In addition to my first reply...
I tried in other discussions in the past to establish that when the
gemara's description of the mishnah is a far streatch for the naive
read, the Rambam's tendency is to explain the gemara in light of what
the mishnah obviously meant, and Rashi (and Raavad, Ritva, Ran...) would
explain the mishnah in light of the gemara. IOW, the majority of rishonim
would say the gemara is saying the mishnah really meant that.
Perhaps by using an explanation like RMA's; RET's description of which
really appealed to me.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:24pm IST, Eli Turkel wrote:
: Rav Michal Avraham has a lengthy article (in Hebrew) justifying uktimtot.
...
: His basic argument is based on a physics analogy...
: The answer is that Newton's law is a basic physical law (ignoring Einstein
: for now) . However, to apply it in practice one has to combine it with
: other physical laws like gravity, friction etc.
: The gemara is trying to do the same. The gemara is trying to set up some
: circumstance where no other laws affect the issue. This requires a far
: fetched ukimta to eliminate everything not pertinent...
(I have used the same mashal to explain why tzadiq vera lo doesn't
disturb my belief in sekhar va'onesh. SvO is a basic metaphysical law.
However, to apply it in practice...)
Whereas the Rambam would be more motivated to go somewhere more like
RZL's answer.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 3:06pm EST, H Lampel wrote:
: The author of the braissa merely listed the exceptional objects, and
: left it for the reader to come up with the details. (This is common
: in note-taking of a lesson, and notes written for a lecture.)
: And/Or, having been taught this chiddush with its details, the
: author took down notes merely listing the exceptional objects,
: leaving the details of circumstance to memory and/or oral
: transmission.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Every child comes with the message
mi...@aishdas.org that God is not yet discouraged with
http://www.aishdas.org humanity.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rabindranath Tagore
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Message: 15
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:18:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] How to become a kohein
On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 01:13:29PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: I am fascinated by this, and I have to wonder: Can we extend this logic to
: Yaakov himself? Is it possible that he had additional children in Mitzraim,
: and they simply aren't listed?
Yaaqov was born in 2108 and goes to Mitzrayim in 2238, he's 130. Avraham
was "va'adoni zaqein" at 99, so however aging workd for the avos, we can
sure 130 was well past surprisingly old age for fathering children.
So, I don't think it's likely.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
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