Avodah Mailing List

Volume 34: Number 129

Sat, 15 Oct 2016

• 1. Re: conservatism in davening (Micha Berger)
• 2. Taking a challah from the freezer on the first day of Yom Tov, so that it will be defrosted for Second day (Professor L. Levine)
• 3. Re: kneppel etiology (Micha Berger)
• 4. vidui booklets? (saul newman)
• 5. Re: alenu edit (Lisa Liel)
• 6. Re: alenu edit (Micha Berger)
• 7. Confession: The Klausenberger Rebbe and Rabbi Soloveitchik (Prof. Levine)
• 8. Is a canvas sukkah kosher if the walls move in the wind? (Professor L. Levine)
• 9. One Day or Two? What is a Chutznik in Eretz Yisrael to Do (Professor L. Levine)
• 10. Re: Geirut - QOM, Geirei Arayot and Rambam (Micha Berger)
• 11. A quantum of time (Micha Berger)
• 12. Re: A quantum of time (Zev Sero)
• 13. Tefillin on Chol Moed (Professor L. Levine)
• 14. Second Day Yom tov for Israelis (Professor L. Levine)

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 04:42:26PM -0400, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
: I think that is basically what happened, but it's a *little* more
: complicated.   For instance, the chazan would start "Ha'ochez beyad
: midas mishpat", and everyone would answer "vechol ma'aminim shehu Kel
: emunah", and then the chazan would say it too, so as not ch"v to exclude
: himself from that "kol".  Then he would start the next line, "habochen
: uvodek", etc...

According to R/Dr Arnie Lustiger's machzor, RYBS said something similar.

We are in a weird compromize between saying it with the Chazan and not
interrupting hearing him. So, the Chazan begins, pauses for us, and then
completes.

If I may add, the pattern reminded me of the layout of Shiras haYam --
with us providing chatzi leveinos between the Chazan's levenios.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

PS: As for broken tunes.... I still have a deep problem with "Az beqol,
ra'ash gadol, adir vechazaq mashmi'im qol" -- the standard nusach has
the pauses in places that don't fit the grammar.

From today's Halacha Yomis


Q. Is one permitted to take a challah from the freezer on the first day of Yom Tov, so that it will be defrosted in time for the nighttime meal?


A. In general, there is a prohibition to prepare on Yom Tov for after Yom
Tov, or from the first day of Yom Tov to the next, even if the preparation
does not involve any of the melachos (39 forbidden activities). This
restriction is known as hachanah. For example, one is not permitted to wash
dishes on the first day of Yom Tov, if one will not need those dishes until
the evening. However, Rav Belsky, zt"l ruled that one may defrost challah
or meat so that it can be used at night. This is because the removal of the
challah from the freezer does not immediately prepare the food for the next
day. For many hours the bread will remain frozen, and the thawing happens
on its own. Since one does not actively thaw the food, but rather it
defrosts on its own, this is not a prohibited form of hachanah.


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: but even the regular shipped in bundles seem to be kneppel free. does
: anyone know if kneppling is a genetic or infectious deformity of the
: date palm?

I don't have a real answer, and wouldn't be posting the following rumors
if I didn't have notes on the MB about its kashrus.

I was told that a knepl (or kaftor) is a genetic propensity in some lulav
plants. Not genetic in the sense that all lulavim from a given tree would
be bent, just that some trees had such branches.

In the same discussion I was told that a "gartl" on an esrog is actually
caused by disease.

On the halachic question, see the MB 645 s"q 40. The SA (s' 8) specifically
allows a lulav w/ a knepl. The MB adds:

Rosh: Personally preferred a knepl (oheiv ani latzeis bo), as it secures
the tiyumes.

Levush: If most of the leaves are folded over, it is pasul. But a knepl
    is kosher.

Taz: Use a non-knepl if available.

In s"q 41 the MB defines a kosher knepl is only if the lead is mostly
straight, and only folded over at the end. He then quotes the PM that
this whol discussion is only if the tiyumes is mostly folded over.)

And in s"q 42, he mentions that some are machmir, but accepted practice is
to permit, like the SA. The MB points us to the Sha'ar haTziyun, who
says that even the machmirim are only talking about the tiyomes.

Looking at the Tehuvos haRosh, he is arguing with the Ritva who holds
that a knepel would be "kafuf" and pasul.

(My wife is babysitting an autistic kid most workdays this month. I
followed the Rosh this year. Shoshanta-less esrog too.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When memories exceed dreams,
mi...@aishdas.org        The end is near.
http://www.aishdas.org                   - Rav Moshe Sherer
Fax: (270) 514-1507

there is an online post  titled--

Cast Down the Viduy Booklets? Response to a Leading Neo-Hasidic Leader and
Mashpia

---said  criticism  of  such pamphlets  was due to-

because a person should not dwell too much on sin, rather they should
concentrate on positive things, citing certain Hasidic teachings to that
effect, particularly on the pasuk ?? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??????
<https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%98%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%99%D
7%94:%D7%A7%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%AA_%D7%99_%D7%91>
.


i personally find the greater detail actually helpful, and imagine that
many people don't even know what the generic vidui's they are reciting
mean...
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There is a glaring flaw in the article, which is the absence of any 
mention of the Rinat Yisrael siddur.

The first time I'd ever heard of this line was my last summer as a 
camper (16 years old) at a Conservative summer camp.  Someone had 
donated a box of Rinat Yisraels, and while there weren't enough to 
replace all of our Siddur Shilos, there were enough to replace them in 
the camp's small synagogue.  That synagogue was where my age group 
davened Shacharit.

One of the counselors talked to us the first day about the new siddurim, 
and pointed out that line in Aleinu (no parentheses, of course).  He 
left it to us to decide what we wanted to do.  I have never not said 
that line since then, and that's over 37 years ago, before Artscroll put 
out the Birkat HaChama booklet.

Lisa

On 10/13/2016 6:48 PM, saul newman via Avodah wrote:
> http://www.thelehrhaus.com/scholarship/
> 2016/9/29/problem-of-alenu?utm_content=buffer9bd0c&;utm_medium=
> social&utm_source=plus.google.com&utm_campaign=buffer
>
> what group besides chabad spits?
>


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 09:58:59PM +0300, Lisa Liel via Avodah wrote:
: There is a glaring flaw in the article, which is the absence of any
: mention of the Rinat Yisrael siddur.
...
: One of the counselors talked to us the first day about the new
: siddurim, and pointed out that line in Aleinu (no parentheses...

R/Dr Shlomo Tal did a good amount of manuscript work in creating the
siddur. Restoring Aleinu is typical.

Another example (which I followed him in, when compiling Ashirah Lashem,
as did the Koren Sacks Siddur) is the text of Yedid Nefesh. R' Elazar
Azkiri's manuscript and the first published edition both contain the
nusach used by Edot haMizrach. The Ashkenazi version is clearly meshubach,
both on the manuscript evidence, and it contains some verb tense issues.

So RST and Koren simply included that EhM version in their Ashkenazi
siddurim.

And back in 2001, R' Moshe Feldman noticed that while the gemara and
SA have the Birkhas haIlanos as referring to "ilanos tovos", Rinat
Yisrael has the corrected diqduq of "ilanos tovim". ("Ilan" is lashon
zakhar.)

But then there is the whole question of whether Nusach Ashkenaz always
had all these Tanakhi terms "vesein chelqeinu beSorasakh", "Modim anakhnu
Lakh", "shaAtah", etc... (Instead of "beSorasekha", "Lekha", "sheAtah".)
Etc... It's a widespread issue that RST didn't open.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The Maharal of Prague created a golem, and
mi...@aishdas.org        this was a great wonder. But it is much more
http://www.aishdas.org   wonderful to transform a corporeal person into a
Fax: (270) 514-1507      "mensch"!     -Rav Yisrael Salanter

Please see


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/19603

Please see


<http:/
/www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/19603>http:/
/www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/19603


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From today's OU Halacha Yomis.


Q. Is a canvas sukkah kosher if the walls move in the wind?


A. Sukkah walls that move in a regular wind are not valid walls. There are
different opinions as to what type of movement invalidates a sukkah. To
satisfy all opinions, the walls should not move in the wind at all (see
Yechaveh Daas 3:46). This standard is difficult to achieve with a canvas
sukkah. In the past few years, some sukkah merchants have addressed this
concern by including stretchable straps with the canvas walls. The straps
wrap around the sukkah. The first strap should be placed 40 inches above
the ground. The next strap should be placed less than 9 inches below the
first, and each subsequent strap should be placed within 9 inches of the
strap above it, until the bottom strap is within 9 inches of the ground.
Depending on the thickness of the straps, this will require stretching
either four or five straps around the sukkah. This series of straps which
do not move in the wind are considered halachically acceptable walls, based
on a concept known as lovud. The princ
 ipal of lovud states that the space between two objects that are within
 three tefachim (approximately 9 inches) of each other, is treated as
 sealed in the eyes of halachah. Thus the series of taut straps placed
 within 9 inches of each other form a halachically valid wall, irrespective
 of the canvas.


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As is well known, in Eretz Yisroel only one day of Yom Tov is celebrated,
exactly as it is written in the Torah; while in Chutz La'aretz each day of
Yom Tov of the Shalosh Regalim has long since become a "two-day Yom Tov".
But what is a "Chutznik" or two-day Yom Tov keeper who happens to be in
Israel for Yom Tov (quite commonly yeshiva bochurim) to do? What are the
guidelines and parameters to enable changing over to observe one day of Yom
Tov like the natives?

To find out, read the full article "Insights Into Halacha: One Day or Two?
What is a Chutznik in Eretz Yisrael to Do?<http://sable.madmimi.com/c/10500?id=65363.445.1.e48ff6a18119f8
61ec7d7bb7fcb0824b>".

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Reviving an 8 yr old thread to share a recent Torah Musings article.
http://www.torahmusings.com/2016/10/insincere-conversions


Torah Musings

Insincere Conversions
Posted by: Aharon Ziegler in Halakhic Positions, Posts
Oct 14, 16

Halakhic Positions of Rav Joseph B. Soloveitchik

The Rambam in Hilchot Issurei Biaah (13:17) writes "A convert who was
not examined or who was not informed about the commandments and the
punishments [for transgressing them], but was circumcised and immersed
in the presence of three laymen, is deemed a [valid] convert."

Rav Soloveitchik commented that the Rambam does not mean to say that a
person who converted with the intention of not observing the mitzvot is
deemed a valid convert. Such a notion would subvert the entire concept
of conversion and the holiness of Israel, which exhausts itself in our
obligation to fulfill G-d's commandments.

The Rambam's position is that acceptance of the mitzvot, unlike immersion,
does not constitute a distinct act in the process of conversion that would
require the presence of a beit din. Rather, acceptance of the commandments
is a defining feature of the conversion process that must be undergone
for the sake of fulfilling the commandments. Therefore, the Rav concluded
that if we know that the convert, at the time of immersion, is willing
to accept the "Ol Malchut Shamayim," the yoke of Heaven, the immersion
effects conversion even though there was no special act of informing
the convert about the commandments and his consenting to fulfill them,
since the convert intends to live the holy life as an observant Jew.

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 1:39oom EDT, Zev wrote to Areivim:
:                                                          The wish is
: for a toch-kedei-dibbur "rewind button", for those moments when we
: realise immediately that we have made a mistake.

I think tokh kedei dibbur works because it's a quantum of time. Any
two statements made within that span is close enough to simultaneous
as to make no difference.

And therefore not require a rewind button.

Now, if someone greets their rebbe at the respectful speed of a mere
3 syllables per second, then the 10 syllables of "Shalom eilekha rebbe
umori" would take approximately 3-1/3 sec, or 1 cheileq. And I suggest
that this one indeed the intent, because a cheileq is the quantum of
time when it comes to computing the calendar.

The two uses of time are quite different, so the quanta needn't be
equal. But it would be elegant if tokh kedei dibbur was a way to
estimate out a cheileq, that both did indeed describe the same unit.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Nothing so soothes our vanity as a display of
mi...@aishdas.org        greater vanity in others; it makes us vain,
http://www.aishdas.org   in fact, of our modesty.
Fax: (270) 514-1507              -Louis Kronenberger, writer (1904-1980)

On 14/10/16 15:57, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 1:39oom EDT, Zev wrote to Areivim:

>> The wish is for a toch-kedei-dibbur "rewind button", for those
>> moments when we realise immediately that we have made a mistake.

> I think tokh kedei dibbur works because it's a quantum of time. Any
> two statements made within that span is close enough to simultaneous
> as to make no difference.
>
> And therefore not require a rewind button.

However the fact is that such a button doesn't exist, and as R Saul
Mashbaum wrote, "how different our lives would be" if only it did.
How many times has each of us wished desperately for one?

-- 
Zev Sero                Wishing everyone a good aquittal
z...@sero.name

________________________________

New shiur: tefillin on chol hamoed. 10 minute clip of Rav hamburger towards the end.
https://www.ou.org/holidays/sukkot/tefillin-chol-hamoed/
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Please see

http://tinyurl.com/j53f296


YL
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