Avodah Mailing List

Volume 34: Number 21

Tue, 23 Feb 2016

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 11:41:39 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Archaeologists discover 7, 000-year-old


On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 10:52:01AM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
: On 02/19/2016 06:29 AM, Micha Berger wrote:
:> Tin is too ductile, it would have to be a tin alloy.

: Tin is less ductile than gold, and yet they had gold keilim.
: And pewter for tableware was 99% tin and 1% copper.

I could accept that bedil means pewter, which I hadn't realized was that
old.

We need to do something with the etymology, though.

:> Similarly ofares. Lead keilim? Figurines, beads -- ie gelumim (see
:> Sifra ad loc), yes. But a keli with walls of lead? A lead plate?

: The Romans cooked in lead pots.

The Romans were much later, and wouldn't have been relevant unless you
thought I meant it was impossible in principle -- like tin keilim. But
there is no indication anyone was doing this. They found figurines,
balls, in China -- lead coins, but not keilim.

This might be techonological. The Romans worked with lead by making it
into sheets that were then shaped and welded together. Much the way cans
were made, not that long ago. I was assuming that the reason why we do
not find lead keilim from the days of the chumah is that the techniques
the Bronze Age was using for copper and Bronze wouldn't work for lead.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "And you shall love H' your G-d with your whole
mi...@aishdas.org        heart, your entire soul, and all you own."
http://www.aishdas.org   Love is not two who look at each other,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      It is two who look in the same direction.



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Message: 2
From: Lisa Liel
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 22:07:06 +0200
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Archaeologists discover 7, 000-year-old


On 2/19/2016 6:41 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 10:52:01AM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
> : On 02/19/2016 06:29 AM, Micha Berger wrote:
> :> Tin is too ductile, it would have to be a tin alloy.
>
> : Tin is less ductile than gold, and yet they had gold keilim.
> : And pewter for tableware was 99% tin and 1% copper.
>
> I could accept that bedil means pewter, which I hadn't realized was that
> old.
>
> We need to do something with the etymology, though.

Why?  What's the etymology of barzel?

Lisa



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Message: 3
From: Micha Berger
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:56:57 -0500
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Archaeologists discover 7, 000-year-old


On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 10:07:06PM +0200, Lisa Liel wrote:
: >I could accept that bedil means pewter, which I hadn't realized was that
: >old.

: >We need to do something with the etymology, though.

: Why?  What's the etymology of barzel?

Unlike barzel, though, we know the meaning of the shoresh /bdl/.

Bedil makes sense for tin if you think of it as "that metal we add to
copper". It's a metal they got by extracting it from cassirerite (Sno2),
using coal and heat to split the Sn (tin) from the oxygen.

Pewter? Maybe bedil means tin for the above reason, and by extension
could mean pewter, as in Midyan's pewter keilim. (I do not think tin
keilim are a possibility, from what I've seen on google.) The same way
that nekhoshes means copper and by extension bronze and brass.

Barzel's etymology is only guesswork. There is a discussion on balashon
http://www.balashon.com/2006/08/barzel.html

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
mi...@aishdas.org         'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
http://www.aishdas.org    'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
Fax: (270) 514-1507                     - Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l



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Message: 4
From: Marty Bluke
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2016 14:17:16 +0200
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] What Do French Jews Do On Shabbath?


R' Arie Folger wrote:
"It's also cheaper to pay a guy to be there for you four times to open the
door for you, than to rent a hotel room."

A hotel room in no way solves the problem. Just about all hotel rooms in
first world countries use electronic keys. Additionally more and more
hotels are installing motion sensors which shut off the lights and a/c if
there is no movement and turn them back on when they detect movement (e.g.
you enter the room).

Now is Peach hotel advertisement time and there are more then ever at
locations around the world. Does anyone know how they deal with these
issues?
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