Avodah Mailing List

Volume 32: Number 94

Wed, 11 Jun 2014

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Harry Weiss
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:37:25 -0700
Re: [Avodah] Better to Daven without a Minyan?

> On Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 01:47:58PM -0400, Prof. Levine wrote:
>: Someone brought me a copy of Torah To-Go...
>: halachic rulings of Rabbi Herschel Schachter.

>: On pages 44 - 45 it says "R. Soloveichik and many other poskim
>: maintain that it is better to daven without a minyan before sof zman
>: Kriat Shema (the end of the period during which one may recite Kriat
>: Shema)  rather than daven with a minyan after the time has elapsed."

From: Micha Berger via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org>
> However, according to the majority (MA, Peri Megadim, MB, AhS), it's
> better to say Shema without berakhos before the minyan gets to it,
> and daven with a minyan.

> Vekhein nohagim.

I heard from Rn. Shoshana Shachter that RHS is very makpid to daven Shema
with amida at the correct time both morning and night.  She said when he
has to be in a later minyan he will daven in Yechidus in the morning and
come to shul and try to not show that he already davened,

The same applies to Friday night when bringing Shabbos in early, he would
make kiddush, eat and that on his own daven in Yechidus.


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Message: 2
From: Moshe Y. Gluck
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 18:53:06 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Better to Daven without a Minyan?

R' Lawrence Teitelman:

<SNIP>Rav Schachters paskens like the GRA that saying shema with its brachos
earlier is preferable. However, I don't know if it is mention there but Rav
Schachter would often cite the practice of Rav Chaim Soloveitchik to then
wait silently after brichos kerias shema to daven amida with the tzibbur. 



What about the problem of hefsek?





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Message: 3
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 11:03:09 -0400
Re: [Avodah] "Ba'asher hu shom", or "Kol hamerachem al

On Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 10:57:09AM +0000, R' Akiva Miller summarized:
: 1) If the focus is on the other person, either to punish him for
: something that he hasn't done yet, or to rescue him from becoming the
: person who will do it, we must *not* kill him. That's the lesson of
: "baasher hu sham."
: 2) But if the focus is on protecting *ourselves*...
: 3) All of the above is trumped by Gezeras Hakasuv, such as Amaleki
: babies, or Ben Sorer Umoreh, or Psak Beis Din.

Except that we learn broad values like #1 at least in part, if not
primarily, by seeing pattens in dinim. I don't think it's enough to
say "gezeiras hakasuv", or as Lisa would have it "halakhah pesuqah" in
general. One has to see why the value doesn't apply to the ben soreir
umoreh, modify our assumptions about the value, or at least acknowledge
that we can't make sense of it, and declare the whole thing -- pattern
and exception -- choq.

In any case, I don't think that's the lesson of ba'asher hu sham, since
that is about BD shel maalah, not human judgment. For which there
are a number of differences:

1- HQBH is bochein kelayos valeiv, not actions. Thus, "ba'asher hu" in
a far more literal sense.

2- Hashem judged Yishmael with full knowledge of Yishmael's future,
we can only forecast. Thus, "baasher hu sham" is not a statement about
refusing to kill on the grounds of a forecast, but about refusing to
tamper with bechirah by punishing now for choices not yet made.

A third problem I have with RAM's position

3- Why would "ba'asher hu sham" be a lesson about misas beis din -- or
for that matter misah biydei shamayim -- more than other oneshim?

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             When one truly looks at everyone's good side,
mi...@aishdas.org        others come to love him very naturally, and
http://www.aishdas.org   he does not need even a speck of flattery.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                        - Rabbi AY Kook

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Message: 4
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 16:18:46 -0400
[Avodah] Any Holistic Sepharadi Rishonim?

Rashi explains the gemara in retail. His concern is making sense of the
gemara in front of us. The Meiri is less retail, but he is also focused
on explaining our sugya.

In contrast, Tosafos tend to be more holistic about it. Their typical
question, more often than not, is based on comparing our gemara to others
and trying to achieve consistency.

Then there are the Rif, the Rambam, and the Rosh whose focus isn't the
gemara, but the resulting din.

And last among rishonim, there are the shu"t -- also focused on din,
but more focused on going beyond what Chazal had already concluded.

Later, after the rishonim, we also have "encyclopedists" (eg the
Pischei Teshuvah).

Given the above taxonomy, I was wondering if someone could help me fill
in gaps in my analysis:

1- Could somone provide categories of halachic literature that I may
have missed (or unfairly lumped together); and

2- Can anyone think of Sepharadi rishonim that the above taxonomy
would place in the same category as Tosafos?

I have a theory that Tosafos's modality is a legacy of the Y-mi's
influence on Ashkenaz. But if it's just that I'm not thinking of /
familiar with the counterexamples...

Unlike the Bavli, most of the shaqla vetarya of the Y-mi is based around
comparing two sets of dinim and where they don't match, asking "Vos iz
der chiluq?" Whether the gemara in Berakhos where the various shitos
about which three sprigs of eizov can be combined to sprinkle parah
adumah water are compared to parallel shitos about which three men can
combine to make a mezuman. Or the gemara in Nidda where the amount of
head showing to define a baby's birth to the amount of skull of a baby
bird must be broken for it to be a neveilah.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             It's never too late
mi...@aishdas.org        to become the person
http://www.aishdas.org   you might have been.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                      - George Eliot

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Message: 5
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 17:47:20 -0400
[Avodah] Mishpachah sheNitme'ah

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 02:19:05PM -0400, Zev Sero via Areivim wrote:
:> And kivan shenitme`u, nitme`u -- on a halachic plane (I can't speak for
:> Qabbalah) they aren't mamzeirim anymore.
: Since when?   Where does it say that they're not mamzerim, just because one
: needn't worry about it?  The metzius doesn't change, and klapei shmaya galya.
: Should it somehow become found out (perhaps by a devoted family genealogist
: who doesn't know when to leave well enough alone), do you claim they can just
: ignore the knowledge?!

More than ignore the knowledge... the mamzeirus was batul. There is no
knowledge to ignore. The Me'iri (on Qiddushin 71a, par begins "kol sheyeis
bo tzad") puts it, "shemei'achar shehutru al yedei safeiq, hutru le'olam".

The Tosafos haRosh  makes a point of dismissing your point, to add
"she'ein lehisracheiq min hamichpachos sha'einan yode'os, shema
timtza pesulah". Tisafis Yeshinim (Yuma 13a "Halakhah KeR' Yosi"
also dismisses "pen yachzeru veyisgalu".

Sidenote: MideOraisa a safeiq mamzer can marry a Jew with kosher
yichus. And a mamzeir vadai can marry into a safeiq qahal. Qiddushin 73a,
based on a derashah of "lo yavo mamzer iqhal Hashem." (Devarim 23:3) The
Ramam concludes a general rule from here (Isurei Bi'ah 18:17; cf Rashba
d"h "mamzer" who explains the Rambam) that safeiq deOraisa lechumra is
itself derabbanan. Other shitos would have to make mamzeirus a special
case, a gezeiras hakasuv. (He even can marry two women where the safeiq
is only which is the mamzeres, according to the Maharit YD 1.)

So many cases of mishpacha shenitme'ah would also depend on whether
there is a spiritual chalos to a gezeira derabbanan. The SA haRav,
in discussing the qedushah of YT sheini shel geliyus, says there is,
that Chazal created a connection between the second day and the very
same qedushas YT and kokhos that HQBH attached the first day to. (Which
the SAhR writes are lemaalah min hazeman.) But then there's the whole
machloqes about whether the pre-shemittah berakhah is chal bizman hazeh
because the shemittah is derabbanan.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger                 Life is complex.
mi...@aishdas.org                Decisions are complex.
http://www.aishdas.org               The Torah is complex.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                                - R' Binyamin Hecht


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