Avodah Mailing List

Volume 23: Number 112

Wed, 16 May 2007

• 1. Re: Yizkor second day yom tov in E'Y (reuven koss)
• 2. Re: shemitta (Dr. Josh Backon)
• 3. Re: shemitta (mkopinsky@gmail.com)
• 4. Re: priorities in Talmud Torah (Micha Berger)
• 5. AhS YD 123-182 (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Torah Study vs. other contributions to soCIETY (David Riceman)
• 7. Re: Maariv Bezman (A & C Walters)
• 8. Re: Yom Ha`atzma'ut vs. 5 Iyyar (A & C Walters)
• 9. Re: chumrot of sefardim (Micha Berger)
• 10. Z"L in English (Micha Berger)
• 11. Chesed and Megillat Ruth (Shoshana L. Boublil)
• 12. Shmitta (Michael Elzufon)
• 13. Re: shemitta (mkopinsky@gmail.com)
• 14. Re: Z"L in English (mkopinsky@gmail.com)
• 15. Re: shemitta (Moshe Feldman)

 >
>>  >>  I'm going to be in Israel for  Shavuos
>>> IY"H and am wondering what to do about Yizkor.   Do I say it  on the
>>> second day at a chu'l  minyan in a yeshiva near my mother's  house?
>> If so, what  do I do the first day when they say Yizkor in the  regular 
>> shul -- leave, stay
>>> =============
>> In the sefer yom tov sheni kehilchoso, he poskins that if one davens on 
>> the
>> second day with a chutznik minyon than one says it on the second day. He
>> brings a machlokes regarding leaving the shul during yizkor on  the first
>> day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>>
>> WADR, what would be the big deal if in such a case Yizkor was said it 
>> twice?
>> I doubt that there is a baal tosif issue here.
>>
>> SBA

 I don't know what goes on during yizkor (B"H), but (fwiw) there is an inyon
 not to be btzar on y-t, and I would think that saying yizkor twice may add
 on tzar.

reuven 

>I am surprised that there hasn't much discussion of the shemitta year coming
>up soon. In Israel the various pages distributed on shabbat had a detailed
>discussion of the issue. Basically there are 3 approaches to the issue:


Actually there is the technological breakthrough just pioneered by
an Israeli farmer last month. For Shmitta, the rabbanut OK'd use of
coconut bark as a planting medium for vegetables (instead of placing
the seeds into the ground). As an added benefit, much less fertilizer
is needed and the bark is biodegradable.

A large number of farmers will be growing vegetables this coming
Shmitta using this method. [And it's a heck of a lot cheaper than
hydroponics (growing plants in water)]. Farmers may even grow
vegetables this way the other 6 years as well since it saves them
a lot of money.

It may even replace the Heter Mechira and the Otzar Beit Din. And save
people all the trouble in disposing of leftover vegetables [having to place
the "garbage" in a double plastic bag].

KT

Josh

On 5/15/07, Eli Turkel <eliturkel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 2. At the other side is the "heter mechira" which allows most Israeli farms
> to
> proceed almost as usual.
>
This year the Rabbanut is planning to very much limit the use of the
hetter mechira compared to other years.  They are going individually to
farmers and determining which farms actually need the hetter mechira to
not be destroyed financially, and when they perform the mechira, will be
mapping out which areas they are and aren't selling.  Aside from limiting
problems with selling EY to non-Jews, this is also planning for the future
elimination (IY"H) of the hetter mechira, especially since as soon as a
majority of Jews live in EY (a plurality of Jews already do, and according
to demographers, within the next few decades Israel will have the
majority), the hetter mechira doesn't work according most, if not all,
poskim.

I heard from a family friend who worked on a kibbutz dati during one
shemitta that they did all melacha with a shinui - rather than lowering
the plow and then starting to drive, they started to drive and then
lowered the plow.  What situation would that have been?  Hetter mechira?

KT,
Michael

On Sun, May 13, 2007 4:38 am, Samuel Svarc wrote:
: The question was: Everything being equal,
: what is preferred, learning full time or training for Zaka? Clearly,
: it's learning that is preferred (sources were previously given).

I must have missed it. I only recall you providing one source, and
that source isn't about planning one's time, but rather not
interrupting one's seider. I already argued that one doesn't imply the
other. Lakol zeman va'eis... So, when it's time to learn, it isn't
time for Zaka -- unless it's bemaqom she'ein ish. That's not proof
that it's always time to learn rather than other mitzvos.

Could you help me with a pointer into the archive to your other points?

My apologies.

I also already cited RYHutner, about "kol hama'rich 'echad'" and the
value of having as broad of a life as possible. RHS's trip to the
Alps, lest he have no answer when HQBH asks "Did you see my beautiful
Alps?" seems along the same lines. Neither limit that breadth to Torah
umitzvos. Our case should be a lo kol shekein.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha@aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter

Someone who follows AhS yomi asked me the following.

Does anyone know if the new edition has the missing simanim?

-mi

-------------------------- Original Message --------------------------
Micha:

As we are coming to the end of what is in my edition the first volume
of YD, I peeked ahead and noticed that the AHS in my edition skips
from YD 122  to YD 183 (Hilchot Niddah). Did the AS write on the
intervening simanim? If not, I think you need to adjust the AHS Yomi
entries on the calendar.
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Samuel Svarc wrote:
>
> No one thinks learning subjects that will help you in Torah is prohibited.
>   
As you keep telling me, we're not talking about permitted, we're talking 
about preference.  If it's inappropriate to study Aristotle, rather than 
studying Torah full time, why did the Rama do it?  If the preference 
includes not only Torah but anything that will help you in Torah, why 
doesn't that include training for Zakka, which undoubtedly includes much 
medical information useful for Talmud Torah, and probably presents it in 
a very time-efficient manner.

David Riceman

Presumably, this makholos is that brought by the MB 235:12. However, the
ShOr paskens like the "different posek".

Nevertheless, ashrei is he who can daven maariv bezmano with a minyan (ibid)

> R' Shmuel Kamenetsky told my BIL to do this, l'chatchila, when 
> davening in a Mincha-right-before-Shkiah-Ma'ariv-right-after minyan. A 
> different Posek, however, told me that the minhag is to daven 
> everything with the Tzibbur.

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Where I live, there are 3 minyonim that lein Vayechal on that day. Two of
them pushed it off the 6 iyar this year. Breslov was the only one that kept
it on 5 iyar. I wonder if some people are makpid on sfeika de'yoma - to fast
two days...


> There is a sevara to always say Hallel on 5 Iyyar (the exact day on 
> which Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Yisra'el was restored), and there is 
> a sevara to say Hallel on the day that's being observed on Yom 
> Ha`atzma'ut (since the miracles surrounding the establishment of the 
> State took place on many different dates, if we're going to give 
> shevach for it on one particular day, it might as well be the day that 
> the country is celebrating it).

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On Mon, May 14, 2007 6:42 pm, Rn Chana Luntz wrote:
: It is more complicated than that.  Basically there is are concepts in
: halacha that even if you hold one way in l'chatchila circumstances -
: l'din, if there are other poskim who hold differently, you can rely on
: those other opinions (even if it is a yachid v'rabim type debate) in
: sha'a hadachak type situations).  The idea is that if you have a vadai
: machlokus haposkim, that is a form of safek d'rabbanan, on which you
: can rule l'kula if you have extenuating circumstances.  Now if your
: ancestors happened to live in Spain or Iraq, then you hold, l'din,
: like the Shulchan Aruch against the Rema and if your ancestors
: happened to live in Germany or Lithuania, you hold l'din like the
: Rema rather than the Shulchan Aruch.  BUT there are circumstances
: where a posek may allow you to hold like the other, usually more
: lenient shita, if there is sufficient rationale to do so....

Related is RGS's recent Hirhurim post. He starts by noting two
mentions of chumros in Mesillas Yesharim and along the way asserts:
> I believe that the answer is that there are two types of chumrah:
> 1. Behaving strictly when one is unsure what the law is.
> 2. Following minority opinions that are stricter than the established
> law.

See <http://hirhurim.blogspot.com/2007/05/two-types-of-chumros.html>.
RGS relates the first to zehirus and the second to perishus.

As from earlier conversations, I find #2 to be too broad, and would
consider different motivations for going lifnim mishuras hadin
separately. (To my mind a Brisker practice to be chosheis for shitas X
and a Chassidish practice to do something for aggadic / qabbalistic
reasons are different in kind, even though both are category 2)

But more fundamentally, we also use the word chumrah to refer to:
3- Following the letter of the law as pasqened by your community or
rav, but is more lenient than others' pesaq.
4- Following a minhag which others do not have.

Simple pragmatics: defying local pesaq also entails defying a minhag.

The "chumeros of Sepharadim" in our context could be any of the four.
Chazarah is an issur of differing pesaq. Not lifnim mishuras hadin or
doubt.

The question of when one can defy local pesaq (chumrah type 3) on the
grounds that it is really a kind of doubt (chumrah type 1), as RnCL
takes for granted, I will leave to others. I do not know when one can
simply ignore a rejected shitah, and even pasqen lequlah on de'Oraisos
 -- clearly NOT safeiq behavior, and when we treat a machloqes like a
safeiq. I have asked this on-list before.

BTW, since I'm reviving the types of chumros discussion, I recommend
RYGB's article "Good Chumros?" reprinted at
<http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol02/v02n079.shtml#08>. His taxonomy
is:
> In broad terms, we can identify four categories of chumros:
> 1. Based on halachic issues.
> 2. Based on ahavas Hashem.
> 3. Based on yiras Hashem.
> 4. Based on separation from gashmiyus.

The first is then described as a pesaq lechumrah. What a poseiq
believes is ikkar hadin, even though other poseqim do not require it.

RGS's two categories are chumros mei'ahavah -- intentionally doing
more than is required, and chumros miyir'ah -- avoiding doubt. Whereas
RYGB's "separation from gashmiyus" sounds the most like perishus.

In either case, note that RYGB too presumes that doubt and machloqes
create taxonomically different kinds of chumrah.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha@aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter

On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:26:26AM +0100, R Yaakov Wise was helping
RnSB translate "z"l" on Areivim and wrote:
:    Usually translated as ..."of blessed memory." Educated non-Jews all know
:    this expression - at least in the UK.

Except that z"l stands for words meaning "may his/her memory be for
a blessing." We are not blessing the memory, but acknowledging the
memory is a source of blessing for us.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

While preparing for a Shiur, I found this very interesting article, written in Hebrew by a student at the Ashkelon college (BIU):

http://www.ash-college.ac.il/lib/parasha/shavuot5.doc

It begins with a quote from Ruth Rabba:

Said R' Ze'ira:  This Megilla, has neither Tum'a nor Tohora, neither Issur nor Heitar, so why was it written?
To teach you the reward given to Gomlei Chasadim (Ruth Rabba B;15)

It is an interesting collection of sources and a resource for Shavu'ot.

Shoshana L. Boublil
(the article is in Word)

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From: "Eli Turkel" <eliturkel@gmail.com>
Subject: [Avodah] shemitta


Interestingly many charedim in Bnei Brak have given up on the "kulah" of the
Chazon Ish and gone over to the Edah Hacharedit. One reason is not to have
to "bother" with the rules of shemitta produce.


[MJE] This is an odd way to express it since in Bnei Brak they tend to hold that non-Jewish produce still has kedusath shviith.  I would guess that they are also relying on Gaza being outside of Eretz Israel, at least for shmittah purposes, so as not to have to treat the produce as having kedushath shviith.

This actually brings up a fourth approach:  produce which has no kedushath shviith either for being from outside of Eretz Israel or for the way it is grown, e.g., hydroponics.  The evacuation from Gush Katif has put a crimp into this, but I would imagine that there will still be a fair amount of produce from this option.

On 5/15/07, Dr. Josh Backon <backon@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>
> >I am surprised that there hasn't much discussion of the shemitta year
> coming
> >up soon. In Israel the various pages distributed on shabbat had a detailed
> >discussion of the issue. Basically there are 3 approaches to the issue:
>
>
> Actually there is the technological breakthrough just pioneered by
> an Israeli farmer last month. For Shmitta, the rabbanut OK'd use of
> coconut bark as a planting medium for vegetables (instead of placing
> the seeds into the ground). As an added benefit, much less fertilizer
> is needed and the bark is biodegradable.
>

I don't understand.  The bark will be placed in above-ground trays of some
sort and filled with soil, and the seeds placed there?  Or the bark will
be used instead of soil?

KT,
Michael

On 5/16/07, Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org> wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:26:26AM +0100, R Yaakov Wise was helping
> RnSB translate "z"l" on Areivim and wrote:
> :    Usually translated as ..."of blessed memory." Educated non-Jews all
> know
> :    this expression - at least in the UK.
>
> Except that z"l stands for words meaning "may his/her memory be for
> a blessing." We are not blessing the memory, but acknowledging the
> memory is a source of blessing for us.
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -mi

According to the Nefesh Hachaim, even when we say G-d is blessed ("Blessed
art Thou..."), we are saying that he is a source of blessing.  What then
is the difference between "Yehei zichro baruch" (which I've actually heard
Israelis use before) and "(Yehei) zichrono livracha"?

KT,
Michael

RETurkel wrote:
<< 1. Eda Hacharedit - use exclusively nonJewish produce. They have signed
an
agreement to import a large amount of vegetables from palestinians in Gaza!
>>

Rav Matanya Ben-Shachar (rav of Neve Daniel) pointed out that as shemitta
nowadays is drabbanan, such a view avoids a drabbanan but may violate a
deoraisa of lo sa'amod al dam rei'echa (given the fact that the Gaza farmers
pay "maaser" to terrorist groups).  He also noted that such a position
undermines the mitzva of yishuv haaretz (deoraisa according to Ramban), as
Jewish farmers flounder financially and may abandon farming (and there is
less and less farming in Israel today).

<< 3. CI - Otzar Bet Din   -  vegetables are used from Jewish farmers that
abide by the
Shemitta rules and sell their produce that grows by itself to a bet din who
then
sell it to the consumer. Fruit can go directly to the consumer. In all cases
the
vegetables & fruit have "kedushat sheviit".
>>

Rav Ben-Shachar and many other rabbanim in Gush Etzion (as well as all the
DL parsha sheets that I have read dealing with the issue) all are pushing
Otzar Bet Din.  Specifically, everyone is mentioning Otzar Ha'aretz, which
is part of Machon HaTorah v'HaAretz (http://www.toraland.org.il/), which is
DL.  Does anyone know if there is an Otzar Bet Din that is charedi?

Rav Shlomo Levy (rosh kollel of Yeshivat Har Etzion) noted that according to
the Ramban (as understood by Rav Kook, which Rav Levy believes to be the
simple understanding of the Ramban), there is a mitzvah de'oraisa (when
shmitta is de'oraisa) to eat peiros shevi'is (the pasuk says "l'ochla"),
though the CI believes that according to the Ramban the mitzvah is just not
to destroy the fruit (l'ochla v'lo l'hefseid). 

<< Interestingly many charedim in Bnei Brak have given up on the "kulah" of
the
Chazon Ish and gone over to the Edah Hacharedit. One reason is not to have
to"bother" with the rules of shemitta produce.>>

According to what I wrote above, this should not be viewed as a "bother" but
a zchus to fulfill a mitzvah.  We don't normally try to put ourselves in a
position to be patur from fulfilling mitzvos.

Kol tuv,
Moshe 

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