Avodah Mailing List

Volume 12 : Number 002

Monday, September 29 2003

< Previous Next >
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:20:52 -0400
From: "Shinnar, Meir" <Meir.Shinnar@rwjuh.edu>
Subject:
RE: Vesivchar leshon arumim


> You misunderstood my intent. I meant to say that at some point Hebrew
> probably had to different 'ayins, which might account for different
> meanings of words that appear to have the same root. But 
> these 2 'ayins
> fell together before mattan Torah, so to read the Torah the way Moshe
> Rabbeinu would have, there would only be one 'ayin. Since Mattan Torah
> there have never been 2 different pronunciations of the 'ayin 
> in Standard
Question: (for information)  Why did the two ayins have to coalesce before
mattan torah?  Why can't we assume that the same letter represented,
depending on other factors, two different sounds (as in bet vet), and that
distinction got lost later (and is of no halachic significance)?  After all,
the Gaza/Obadia distinction comes from Hellenistic times, suggesting that a
major group did have two different pronounciations even at a later date?...

Meir Shinnar


This communication is for informational purposes only.  It is not intended as
an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument
or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data
and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and
are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein
do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., its
subsidiaries and affiliates.


Go to top.

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:57:44 -0400
From: MPoppers@kayescholer.com
Subject:
Re: time of selichot


> My understanding is that (among those who do say Slichos then) it is
generally (universally?) placed before (or as part of) Tachanun. <
I grew up with the custom of saying Slichos during the Amidah "S'lach na"
b'racha.  Given that Yotzros are said after the b'racha of "Yotzair or,"
etc., I thought that placement was deliberate, but I don't know if those
piyutim are called "S'lichos" because of the placement or if they're said
at that time because they're akin to the piyutim we're currently saying
before Shacharis (or after Ma'ariv, depending on our custom).

All the best (including wishes for a k'sivah vachasimah tovah) from

--Michael Poppers via RIM pager




This communication is for informational purposes only.  It is not intended as
an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument
or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data
and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and
are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein
do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., its
subsidiaries and affiliates.


Go to top.

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:44:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: gil@aishdas.org
Subject:
AishDas Shabbaton Recollections


The Shabbaton schedule started with open tables at 4pm on erev Shabbos.
However, I went straight to my host's home so I don't know about that.  I
will presume that the tables opened successfully and all involved had a
ruchniusdik experience.

My Shabbaton experience began when I went to shul for Mincha. Following a
slower-than-average davening, Micha was given the amud for a leibadik
Kabbalas Shabbos and Ma'ariv. This must have been just a taste of the
legendary Carlebach minyan he used to run in his home.

Dinner was served following davening, with Rebbetzin Berger (aka Siggy)
and the Berger Boys expertly serving the food. My family shared a table
with Jon and Debbie Baker, after less fighting than usual over who gets to
sit next to Mommy. Evidently, even the kids felt the atmosphere. There was
one couple we met from my old (and Jon & Debbie's current) neighborhood
who saw an ad for the Shabbaton in Hamodia and, based on that alone, came.
Very gutsy, but I think the gamble paid off.

Conversation was generally limited to each table, so unfortunately I did
not get to speak at length to everyone in attendance. Additionally, the
meals were for the out-of-towners, with the many Passaic natives attending
only the Va'adim and not the meals. However, that did make it more cozy
for those of us at the meals.

Rabbi David Hojda gave a devar Torah at dinner about what purpose there is
in bringing children to Hakhel. We are told that the children are brought
in order to give reward to their parents. But why should there be reward
if the children do not benefit? Rabbi Hojda suggested that children do
benefit, and the atmosphere of Hakhel makes a lasting impression on the
children even if they do not understand what is going on. All this while
my kids were running around in the hall outside rather than listening.

After dinner, Rabbi Aron Rothman of Yeshiva Sh'or Yoshuv (and, I believe,
father of listmember Yona Rothman) led a va'ad on Menuchas HaNefesh. He
spoke for a little bit about how to calm down in life and achieve an inner
peace. He offered a number of  practical suggestions, such as viewing
Shabbos as a forced time of rest in our busy lives and seeing tefillah as
a source of menuchah.

After his brief talk we broke up into two groups (men, women) for a
discussion of the topic. Mrs. Berger (Micha's mother) led the women and
Rabbi Rothman led the men. The lively discussion, in which most of the
attendees participated, generated helpful  suggestions such as
consistently yielding while driving to avoid frustration, careful
breathing, taking "time out" before entering stressful situations.

The va'ad, and the post-va'ad shmuessing, was so successful that it had to
be cut off so the custodian could leave for the night. This proved to be
beneficial because we all needed our sleep for the next day.

Shacharis in the shul was relatively uneventful. The kiddush that
followed, sponsored by AishDas, had enough cake to keep my children busy
for a while.

Between kiddush and lunch was a va'ad that was started by Rabbi Bechhoffer
speaking about breaking out of regular habit and finding meaning in
mitzvah performance. After his brief remarks we broke into separate
groups. Rabbi Bechhoffer led the men's discussion, which included a debate
over whether Hashem loves each individual Jew
regardless of his actions. One suggestion in making mitzvos more
meaningful was to occasionally break out of habit and do something in a
different way or at a different time. Another suggestion was to try to
focus on birkos ha-mitzvos which will lead to paying more attention to the
actual mitzvah.

Lunch quickly followed this va'ad, at which I spoke about how teshuvah can
be described by the Torah as a mitzvah that is easy. I suggested (from R'
Itzele Peterburger) that there are two parts to teshuvah, the intuitive
part that one would do even if there was no concept of teshuvah and a
chiddush of teshuvah. The intuitive part, regretting the sin and stopping
it, is very difficult. However, the chiddush, confessing and accepting to
never sing again, are relatively easy and are to what the Torah referred.

Following lunch was a long break which some used for learning, others for
napping, and others for a healthy walk. We regrouped later in the
afternoon for a final va'ad led by Rabbi Ya'akov Feldman. In a rising
speech, Rabbi Feldman discussed how we can make sure that we will achieve
spiritual progress in the upcoming year. His suggestion was to
develop a personal relationship with Hashem, specifically to privately
speak with G-d as we would with a person in order to develop a secret,
close relationship with the RBSO. Subsequent discussion led to suggestions
on how achieve this closeness. One such suggestion was to keep a journal
of hashgachah peratis events, although some objected
that certain worldviews reject hashgachah peratis. A reference was made to
a statement by R' Shalom Carmy on Avodah
(http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol07/v07n087.shtml#07) that personal
dialogue replaces the need for intellectual proofs.

After the va'ad, which was so popular that it went overtime, Micha ended
the program with some divrei hisorerus. Micha stressed that our job is
growth and not necessarily specific achievement.  The point is the work at
becoming better and not being better.  This is characterized by the double
parsha of Nitzavim-Vayeilech.  We accomplished a wonderful Shabbaton, but
we have to keep on going past the landmark and merely stop there.

Mincha followed and then shaleshudis. Rabbi Bechhoffer was prevailed upon
by the rav to speak and he inspired us with a Meshech Chochmah on "Zeh
Sefer Toldos Ha-Adam", with Micha visibly amused at the Avodah reference.
After some heartfelt zemiros, and quiet discussion about a passage by R'
Shlomo Min HaHar that Rabbi Hojda found fascinating and Rabbi Bechhoffer
not-so-fascinating, we davened Ma'ariv and said
goodbye to our AishDas Shabbos.

Gil Student



This communication is for informational purposes only.  It is not intended as
an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument
or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data
and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and
are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein
do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., its
subsidiaries and affiliates.


Go to top.

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:01:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: gil@aishdas.org
Subject:
Re: tefillin knots


RMM Kasher goes through all the different shitos in his Divrei Menachem
vol. 1 no. 14.

Gil Student



This communication is for informational purposes only.  It is not intended as
an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument
or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data
and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and
are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein
do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., its
subsidiaries and affiliates.


Go to top.

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:30:47 -0400
From: MPoppers@kayescholer.com
Subject:
Re: Fw: [elu_velu] Taking Challah


Wow!

Thank you, Shoshana, for making my day. Micha, perhaps we could make a
given mitzva the topic of discussion for a future gathering of Avodah
members...and if a number of such gatherings could be held around the
same time all over the world, consider the spiritual-world repercussions!

All the best from
 --Michael Poppers via RIM pager


Go to top.

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:42:13 +0000
From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Re: Vesivchar leshon arumim


On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 01:48:57PM -0400, Seth Mandel wrote:
: You misunderstood my intent. I meant to say that at some point Hebrew
: probably had to different 'ayins, which might account for different
: meanings of words that appear to have the same root. But these 2 'ayins
: fell together before mattan Torah...

Any relationship to the order of pei, ayin in Eichah?

:-)OOii (round challos this week!)
-mi


Go to top.

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:49:18 +0000
From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Bugs and Chumros


RWW wrote in Areivim, forwarded to v11n77:
:> I remember that when I first learned tola'im the rule was very simple:
:> If you can't see it -- it isn't there.

: ONLY if you don't know it's there.

: However, if there is a chazaka of infestation, then that rule
: doesn't apply.

I was under the impression that bugs that can't be seen aren't tola'im
any more than amoebas are. (New chumrah: anything containing water is
therefore treif!) It has nothing to do with uncertainty and birur.

I've repeated here a number of times RDLifshitz's shitah that this
rule -- the unseen have no halachic mamashus -- also explains the
kashrus of kinim found within the meat. Beitzei kinim have no mamashus,
therefore the only goreim which does is the meat eaten since hatching that
allowed it to grow to mamashus size,

Speaking of birur...

On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 12:00:13PM -0400, R' Aryeh Stein forwarded
from Rabbi Dovid Heber, Star-K Kashrus Administrator:
: Apis Mellifica - This homeopathic remedy is derived from the body of the
: honeybee and is not kosher. However, as in most homeopathic remedies, the
: active ingredient is less than 1/60 and is therefore batel b'shishim.6
: If the inactive ingredients are kosher, and the honeybee is batel,
: this product would be halachically permissible to take.

Doesn't he mean only if the honey was made by non-Jews?

Otherwise, there is no bitul bemeizid. No?

:-)00ii (round challos)
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             For a mitzvah is a lamp,
micha@aishdas.org        And the Torah, its light.
http://www.aishdas.org                   - based on Mishlei 6:2
Fax: (413) 403-9905      


Go to top.

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:01:23 +1000
From: "SBA" <sba@iprimus.com.au>
Subject:
Re: time of selichot


From: Kenneth G Miller <>
> All this discussion has been about the Selichos which we say in Elul
> and Tishrei. What about Baha"b and Taaniyos?

> My understanding is that (among those who do say Slichos then) it is
> generally (universally?) placed before (or as part of) Tachanun. ..

Nusach Ashkenaz [at least Ob. and I presume Yekkes] is to say selichos on
those days in middle of Selach Lonu of Chazoras Hashatz.

SBA


Go to top.


********************


[ Distributed to the Avodah mailing list, digested version.                   ]
[ To post: mail to avodah@aishdas.org                                         ]
[ For back issues: mail "get avodah-digest vXX.nYYY" to majordomo@aishdas.org ]
[ or, the archive can be found at http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/              ]
[ For general requests: mail the word "help" to majordomo@aishdas.org         ]

< Previous Next >