Avodah Mailing List

Volume 05 : Number 087

Wednesday, July 19 2000

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:22:26 -0400
From: Gil.Student@citicorp.com
Re: Nusach of tefilla betzibbur

RE Turkel wrote:

>How about a private person saying kadish. There is the small difference between
>ashkenaz and sefard (chassidic) of veyazmach perkunai. However, there are much 
>larger difference between edot mizrach sefard and ashkenaz.
>The usual minhag is for each person to say his personal version. Since usually 
>everyone says kaddish together (semi in unison) this creates a mishmash and 

I think that all of the sources quoted so far would apply to kaddish as well.  
It is either a violation of lo sisgodedu or deviating from the minhag hamakom.

Gil Student

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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:08:56 -0400
From: Gil.Student@citicorp.com
Re: Rashi question: Balak

I wrote:
>> The Maskil LeDavid (R. David Pardo) explains Tallis Gadol and Shema are
>> only done in the morning while Tefillin is (or rather was) worn all day.
>> Rashi starts with the mitzvas of the morning and then goes to the mitzva
>> that is performed all day.

RG Dubin wrote:
>Why would Rashi use that order if the order of "hen am kelavi yakum",
>describes the order in which we do the mitzvos **upon arising**,  not how long
>they are in effect during the day.

The Maskil LeDavid explains that the mitzvos upon arising are referred to by the
beginning of the pasuk "hen am kelavi yakum" and the mitzvos performed
throughout the say are referred to by the next phrase "veka'ari yisnasa".

Granted, you have a dibur hamaschil problem, but that is nothing new with Rashi.

Gil Student

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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:43:14 -0500
From: Steve Katz <katzco@sprintmail.com>
Re: Rashi question: Balak

Gershon Dubin wrote:
> Rashi says on the posuk "hen am kelavi yakum" that Yisrael gets up in the
> morning and immediately does mitzvos: puts on a talis, reads Shema, and
> puts on tefilin.

> Isn't the order wrong? The Midrash Tanchuma has it in the order talis,
> tefilin, shema, which appears more logical. Rabbenu Bachya quotes it in
> that order; why does Rashi apparently change the order?

Is that maybe the reason some put on tefilin after birchas hashachar, just
before boruch she'omar?


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:48:01 EDT
From: C1A1Brown@aol.com
Re: Rashi question: Balak

> Rashi says on the posuk "hen am kelavi yakum" that Yisrael gets up in
> the morning and immediately does mitzvos: puts on a talis, reads Shema,
> and puts on tefilin...Isn't the order wrong?

Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest that the Midrash is a paraphrase
of Rav in Berachos 14b - 'Rav mashi yadei, v'karah keriyas shema, vanah
tefillin, v'tzali'. Although the gemara in the end result says Rav in that
case had done things out of order, perhaps the Midrash captured the aphorism
without bothering to get involved in the gemara's explanation.

(There is of course no mention of talis in the gemara).


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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:32:48 +0000
From: yidubitsky@JTSA.EDU
Rashi in Balak

Re. RGD's question about Rashi at Bamidbar 23:24: Rashi is embellishing
the midrash. The Tan.humah, BaMidbar Rabbah and Yalkut Shimoni all have
the same version and all they have is "...`omdim ka-arayot ve-.hotfim
keriat shema." No tallit, tzizit or tefilin mentioned. Yet, as pointed
out, Rabenu Bahya does cite the midrash in the "correct" [viz., talit,
tefilin, shema] order. I would venture that Rabenyu Bahya (d. 1340)  is
merely correcting the girsah in Rashi (d. 1105) that he did not
understand. In fact, A. Berliner does cite a version of Rashi that has
the "correct order" [and adds "ve-khen tsarikh le-hiyot"]. However,
let's assume the Rashi is correct as it stands now in our defusim: RGD
was mekaven li-gedolim.
As RGS mentions, R. David Pardo (d. 1790) in *Maskil le-David* already
asked the very same question. He answers that since the first verb in the
pasuk is *yakum* and then in the "parallel clause" [forgive please the
academic terminology] the verb used is *yitnaseh*, Rashi learns [how's
that for yeshivish?] that yakum refers to what is done davka in the
morning, namely talit and shema and yitnaseh refers to what is done all
day long, namely tefilin. Rashi is applying his embellishment of the
midrash to both parts of the (first part of the) pasuk.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe's *Bi'urim le-ferush Rashi ah"T* [2nd ed.] vol. 4,
p. 212 also raises the question and others on that Rashi. He ends, I
believe, with something along the lines of RCS' suggestion about saying
shema immediately upon rising in the morning. [May I be mokir tov be-
farhesiyah to my chaver R. Moshe Schapiro of YU's Mendel Gottesman
Library for faxing me over this page as, alas and alack, we at JTS only
have the first edition of the sefer, which does not include commentary
on our pasuk. Who says relations between the respective insitutions are
Others also raise the question: see a halakhic summary [re. ha-koreh
keriat shema beli tefilin] and many mareh mekomot [really: marei makom,
but that's another issue] in David Avraham Mandelbaum's *Sefer Pardes
Yosef he-.hadash al ha-torah* vol. 8 (Bene Berak, 1996), pp. 936- 939,
no. 123.

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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:13:29 -0400
From: raffyd@juno.com
Re:Rashi Question: Balak

Rabbi Heinemann here in Baltimore explained Rashi's order as follows.  

He says that the order or tzitzis-shema-tefillin applies when (imagine) a
bochur who arrived early in the morning from a chasuna in New York, 4
hours away.  He is so exhausted that he plans on sleeping through the
next evening. He sleeps in, only to be woken up by his roomate at 9:28. 
Sof zman Kriah is 9:31. He wakes up like a lion, throws on his talis
katan and says krias shema.  It is this midda that is praised by the

R. Heinemann might have meant it tongue in cheek, but it still has
pratical value in praising klal Yisrael's behavior towards waking up in
the morning.  Do with it what you will.


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