Avodah Mailing List

Volume 02 : Number 039

Sunday, November 1 1998

• Re: Women's Prayer Groups
• Kadima of Av in Mitzvas milah, mitzvat yishuv ha'aretz
• R' Chaim on shnei ketuvim - parshat ha'akeida
• Minhagei Ashkenaz in E.Y.
• Re: Ma'akeh
• Walky talkies on Shabbos
• Re: Maakeh
• Re: Minhagei Ashkenaz in E.Y.
• Re: Ma'akeh
• Whose domain is the kitchen?

Why do they need a mechitza? Is it truly a Shul?

On Sat, 31 Oct 1998, Chana/Heather Luntz wrote:

> But while there is a mincha minyan somewhere nearby, and I did try
> asking that I be allowed to come, at least during the winter months when
> mincha is such a problem (in summer I either daven mincha after I get
> home, or if I am working so late, it isn't such a problem to find a
> deserted room), but apparently it is a very small room, and there is
> really no space to set up a mechitza. 
> 

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

(1)  Ramban at end of parsha writes that Avraham was mal his familay/avadim
before himself.  I would have thought he should mal himself first bec. if the
chiyuv milah of an av and ben occur simultaneously the av (l'chorah) should
come first at least for the reason of removing the issur kareis (which does
not apply to the ben).  Ramban writes that had Avraham been mal himself first
he would have been a choleh and physically unable to be mal the rest of the
family.  Still don't unserstand -  if we assume that the av has kadima (which
Ramban agress to if not for the choleh consideration) if he then can't be mal
everyone else because of external circumastances like choli, ones rachmana
patrei?!

(2) Ramban holds Avraham was choteh b'shogeg by going down to Mitzrayim and
destined his children to galus there.  Chazal say galus was decreed bec of the
question "b'mah eida ki irashena".  L'chorah no contradiction - both sins show
an underlying lack of confidence in yerushat ha'aretz.  In any event, acc. to
Ramban the mitzva of yishuv ha'aretz as given to Avraham manifested itself as
an issur aseh of leaving eretz Yisreal as well as a mitzva kiyumit.  

Three comments on the R' Chaim on shnei ketuvim: (1)R' Chaim's point is that
having contradictions is not an excuse for halachic passivity, i.e. you might
not have the katuv hashlishi to resolve all the issues, but you are still
bound by the shnei ketuvim.  What remains to be clarified though, is HOW to
act when there are contradictory pesukim - that's the machloket in pesachim.
(2) The R' Chaim is quotes in Griz al hatorah (stencil) regarding Avraham's
not asking Hashem the contadiction between "ki b'Yitzchak yirarei l'cha zara"
and the mitzva of akeidah till after the fact.  Sefer HaIkarim takes the
opposite approach.  He writes that Jewish history has been filled with many
examples of martyrdom.  What makes akeidat yitzchak unique is that had Avraham
wished he COULD have challenged HAshem with the kashe "ki b'yitzchak yikarei
l'cha zera" - Avraham did not take advantage of even a seemingly legitimate
way out.   (3) In context of the story with the chassid the point of the R'
Chaim seems to be that after the katuv hashlishi exists  there is a chiyuv to
investigate and analyze and not take things at face value k'pshutan as was the
approach of the chassid.

-CB

A number of weeks ago, Rich Wolpoe asked about how the German Kehillo in
Bnei Brak can keep up its German Minhogim and not succumb to Minhag EY.

Without defending those minhogim per se, although of course Yekkeshe
Minhogim are very ancient and accurate, if anything EY should be,
historically, the place where minhogim can davka co-exist, for the basis
of multiple sets of minhogim in Am Yisroel is the concept of each Shevet
having its own Sha'ar in Shomayim for its Avodas Hashem. So, while in
CHU"L each kehillo might be considered its own makom, EY was designed for
halachic pluralism!

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

A recent poster wrote:

<<
There is a greater need to teach that one has to make a Geder to avoid a
Sakanah, then teaching us not to be cruel.  
>>

I don't think I agree with this necessarily.  Sakana, as in the case of
ma'akeh protects the homeowner from danger as well.  So, the homeowner hasa
vested interest in putting up the fence.

Cruelty is usually done to others, unless a person has some severe
psychological problems.  We tend to think in terms of ourselves first, and
others only a distant second.  Accordingly, it would be more important to
teach lessons not to be cruel to others, to take others into consideration,
than it is to teach safety, which everyone can relate to.

Eliyahu

>     On a Hashkofo level, many frumme Yidn would be mechallel Shabbos 
>to carry a walky-talky when they serve in Hatzolo.
	Please review the relevant tshuvos in Igros Moshe before calling
**wearing** a radio,  **carrying**  a radio and label it chilul Shabbos.

Gershon

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In a message dated 10/30/98 2:41:29 PM EST, katzco@sprintmail.com writes:

> Might maakeh not be a chok (and I think mishpatim must be accepted as 
>  chukim) for which we don not know and may not question HKB'H's 
>  motivation?

Why make a Davar Sichli into a Chok? (OTOH WRT doing we should do all mitzvohs
because it is G-d's will, I would think that in doing a Davar Sichli out of
Kabolas Oyl we elevate our Koach Hasaychel to Kdusha).

Kol Tuv

Yitzchok

In a message dated 10/31/98 9:05:41 PM EST, sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
writes:

> So, while in
>  CHU"L each kehillo might be considered its own makom, EY was designed for
>  halachic pluralism!

OTOH each Sehvet at it's own Chelek in E"Y only Yerusholayin Lo Nischaleik
Lishvotim, hence many Tshuvohs how in one city can be different Minhogim
without Lo Sisgodidu.

Kol Tuv

Yitzchok

In a message dated 10/31/98 10:09:14 PM EST, EDTeitz@aol.com writes:

>   Accordingly, it would be more important to
>  teach lessons not to be cruel to others, to take others into consideration,
>  than it is to teach safety, which everyone can relate to.

In Sevoroh we could also that, OTOH we clearly see that kind people that would
not hurt a fly will not be careful in removing possible dangers from their
property with the Hasboroh the chances are very small, I can take care of it
later, so even if Lifnei ivair is not needed Maakeh would be needed.

And as far as thinking of others the positive command of Veohavtoh Lreiacho
Komoycho should suffice.

In any case the Chinuch 232 counts Lifnei Ivair.

Kol Tuv

Yitzchok  

Nowadays, those who assign 'traditional' roles to a husband and wife
generally give the job of running the kitchen to the wife. Last night,
some friends of mine (Yossi & Helene Wenger) suggested that during the
days of the Avos, the kitchen was the *husband's* domain. At first I
thought they were joking, but then they brought some pretty interesting
evidence, and I'd like to hear if anyone else has any comments.

(1)  In Vayera (Bereshis 18) Avraham is quite in charge of preparing the
meal for the three mal'achim. I would have expected Avraham to tell Sarah
about the guests' arrival, so that she would decide what to prepare, and
how to prepare it, and then Avraham would follow her instructions.
Instead, he decided what to make, how to make it, and assigned specific
tasks to Sarah and Yishmael. He did not merely ask Sarah to make enough
bread for three guests, but specified how much four to use, what kind of
flour to use, what type of bread (ugos) to make -- he even pointed out
that she should knead it, as if Sarah did not know how to make bread! If
the Torah merely wanted to point out that Avraham was a zariz - that he
was quick to do mitzvos and tried to push his family to do so as well -
then all we might need is the single word "mahari" - "Hurry!" But the
story is much longer and more detailed. What are we to learn from the
Torah going out of its way to point out how involved Avraham was with
these preparations?

(One answer might be that Sarah had gotten her period and was therefore
unable to work. But Avraham was recuperating from his bris, and one could
argue he was even weaker than she. More importantly, when Avraham told
Sarah to make the bread, he did not yet know that she had gotten her
period. He found that out later, and that is why the bread was not served
to the guests. (Rashi on 18:8))

(2) In Toldos (Bereshis 25) we find Yaakov cooking some red stuff, which
he then sold to Esav. Why was Yaakov cooking? Where was Rivka?

(One answer might follow the opinion that he was cookng this for the
Seudas Havraah after Avraham's funeral, at which meal the mourner may not
eat his own food. Although technically only Yitzchak was a mourner, and
not Rivka nor Yaakov, maybe the mourner can eat his son's food but not
his wife's? I do not have access to my seforim right now; keep in mind
that Yaakov was still living with his parents, so I doubt there'd be any
difference between wife and son in this regard.)

(3) Again in Toldos (Bereshis 27), Yitzchak asks Esav to prepare the kind
of tasty food which he likes. This was in anticipation of giving the
bracha to Esav, so it would have been pointless to ask Rivka to do this
cooking. But the story would not make sense unless Esav was already
experienced in cooking these foods on previous occassions. In the end,
Rivka did do the cooking as part of her plan to fool Yitzchak. That might
have been because Yaakov (unlike Esav) was *not* an experienced cook, or
because he was busy making the goat-skin costume.

Akiva Miller

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