Avodah Mailing List

Volume 44: Number 10

Sun, 15 Feb 2026

• 1. wagons? (Joel Rich)
• 2. Re: Normal People Don't Care About Those Things/13 ikrim (Toby Katz)
• 3. electronic key card (Joel Rich)
• 4. Re: kol dalim gvar (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: HKBH does not fashion commandments that might cause people to sin (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: wagons? (Micha Berger)

If according to Genesis 45: 17?19 it was pharaoh who told Joseph to send
the wagons, why do we take it that the wagons were signal from Joseph to
Jacob?
KT
Joel Rich
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In Avodah Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4 dated 1/20/2026R'n Ilana Elzufon wrote:????
> To the best of my knowledge, Rav Moshe Mendelssohn himself was mostdefinitely Orthodox

This was followed by an extended scholarly discussion among many members
here, astonishing in its irrelevance. Who even bothers with Mendelssohn
anymore? There's a Hirsch Chumash in almost every Torah home..The
most important thing to know about Mendelssohn is that he translated
the Torah into German in order to teach Jews German (so that they could
prove themselves worthy of German citizenship). Jews knew Chumash. They
didn't know German..Half a century later, Hirsch translated the Torah
into German in order to teach Jews Torah. German Jews knew German. They no
longer knew Chumash..In the long arc of Jewish history, whose project was
more needed? Who was more successful? Whose work was infused with kedusha?

[Email #2 -micha]

In Avodah Digest, Vol 44, Issue 5??dated 1/25/2026 R Meir Shinnar writes:??
> However, wrt to your answer about the 13 ikkarim -- we have been down
> that road before........wrt the 13 ikkarim.  Eg, forbidding prayer
> to angels -- while some people try to rewrite piyutim, most of us still
> say shalom Aleichem with (barchuni leshalom)....

We have indeed been down that road many many times before and the issue
has never made sense to me. If I ask a tzaddik to give me a bracha,
that's called davening to him?

--Toby--
Toby Katz <t6...@aol.com>

During a shiur I mentioned this program focusing on the use of electronic
key cards on Shabbat:



https://torahinmotion.org/classes/electricity-and-shabbat-the-views-of-rabbi-nahum-rabinovitch

Dr. Marc Shapiro,Rabbi Dr. Dror Fixler- Electricity and Shabbat: The Views
of Rabbi Nahum Rabinovitch







 I think for most of us the description of near field theory will remind us
of Elton John?s Rocketman, ?and all the science I don?t understand?. There
were a number of interesting elements to this discussion and I send it out
with a bit of trepidation since I really do resonate to the concern that
people who have never heard of Rabbi Rabinovich will act because it?s more
convenient, but if you're interested, I?d be interested in your comments on
that and any other parts of the discussion you care to comment on.



KT
Joel Rich
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On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 06:27:18AM +0200, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> Is kol d'alim a permanent tug of war as in (Let That Be Your Last
> Battlefield -- Wikipedia) or is whoever prevails first now the
> permanent owner?

The Rosh (BB 3:22) argues that kol de'alim gevar establishes ownership
and the item cannot be grabbed again.

His reasoning:
Kol de'alim gevar only applies when we don't know who would be the
motzi in "hamotzi meichaveiro". We assume that the person with righteous
indignation is more likely to be the "alim", and so the loser would now
be subject to "alav hara'ayah".

Tosafos (BB 34b "hahu arva") and the Shitah Mequbetzes (34:3, citing
the Ri) say that ownership is never resolved.

Their reasoning:
The mechanism for kol de'alim is that the court cannot rule, so it
bows out. Ownership is now in a state of anarchy, with no ajudication.

Presumably: until they agree to arbitration / pesharah. There is a way
out of the Last Battlefield.

Going to halakhah lemasseh:

SA CM 139:1 holds like the Rosh. It cannot be grabbed back.

The Shach (s"q 1) argues in favor of Tosafos.

The AhS se'if 2 holds like the Rosh, that getting it back would require
a ra'ayah.
He also brings up the subject of the other litigant being allowed to
demand a shavu'ah after it was grabbed. And therefor the AhS opines
("nir'eh li") that even according to the Shakh, if the first party
did make that shevu'ah, the second party cannot grab it back. Not
that he pasqens like the Shakh anyway.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

PS: I only was able to put your email aside and look up the sources
because this was an email list. I couldn't give an answer like this
on social media. And that's why I keep Avodah limping along even while
most of the eyeballs are looking elsewhere. This kind of discourse is
too valuable to just let die.

-- 
Micha Berger                 A flower does not think of competing with the
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   flower next to it -- it just blooms.
Author: Widen Your Tent                  - Sensei Ogui
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

On Sat, Jan 31, 2026 at 10:55:19PM +1100, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
> The Gemara Yuma 67b
> brings differing opinions re the YK scapegoat's remains being permitted or
> prohibited
> Rava observes it is most likely, and that is how we Pasken
> that they are permitted because
> HKBH does not fashion commandments that might cause people to sin.

I think part of Rava's argument is that a din that overrides chas Rachmana
al memonah shel Yisrael would be explicit. Part of what might cause sin
is that it's not in the pasuq.

The issur hana'ah for the egla arufah's nachal eisan is written
explicitly. (And having a memorial to the sad event as a reminder to take
care in the futre seems a pretty important part of the whole ritual, IMHO.
Just as the whole process potentially being about getting the story of
what happened to this person making the rounds. (Moreh 4:40, Chinukh #530)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                     Life is complex.
http://www.aishdas.org/asp           Decisions are complex.
Author: Widen Your Tent                  The Torah is complex.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                              - R' Binyamin Hecht

On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 05:45:47AM +0200, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> If according to Genesis 45:17-19 it was pharaoh who told Joseph to send
> the wagons, why do we take it that the wagons were signal from Joseph
> to Jacob?

This question could be asked about the pasuq itself. Bereishis 57:19-21
vs 27.

Bereishis Rabba 94 suggests that Par'oh gave Yosef wagons with idolatrous
images on them. So Yosef instead sent from his own garage, and they
looked Hebrew. (Perhaps just by being wagons that clearly had the pagan
decorations removed?)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Our greatest fear is not that we're inadequate,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   Our greatest fear is that we're powerful
Author: Widen Your Tent      beyond measure
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                      - Anonymous


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