Avodah Mailing List

Volume 43: Number 59

Wed, 24 Sep 2025

• 1. Re: birchat cohanim (Isaac Balbin)
• 2. Re: A woman reciting Birchas Gomel at the Bimah on shabbos (Isaac Balbin)
• 3. A woman reciting Birchas Gomel at the Bimah on shabbos (Aryeh Frimer)
• 4. Re: Kiddushin and Nisuin (Akiva Miller)

On 18 Sep 2025, at 12:31?pm, avodah-requ...@lists.aishdas.org wrote:
> 
> From: Joel Rich <joelirar...@gmail.com <mailto:joelirar...@gmail.com>>
> 
> All other things being equal, should an ashkenazi ben chu?l in chu?l daven
> at an eidot hamizrach minyan in order to receive birchat cohanim or daven
> at an ashkenazi minyan?

If he or she follows the opinion of the Sefer Charedim that there is a
Mitzvah to be blessed then it makes sense that they should seek to
accommodate that Mitzvah by straddling both if possible.

> If the latter, should he make an effort to sit in
> at an eidot hamizrach minyan for the bracha? What if he would have to miss
> answering a kaddish at the ashkenazi minyan to do so?

Well Davening is DeOrayso or a DeRabbonon or at least once a day DeOrayso and it?s Yishtadel
If a person follows the Charedim then that is Lich'ora a DeOrayso
I think the sensible thing to do for someone who is concerned is to find a Hashkomo minyan or similar and be Poseach al Shnei Seifim.


> Would it make a
> difference if he were a ben aretz traveling in chu?i?

It?s a Chovas Gavra and only a Minhag not to duchen in Chul.


> KVCT
> Joel Rich

VeChein LeMar UleMishpachto


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> From: Harry Maryles <hmary...@yahoo.com>
> 
> There is a fascinating article in JTA (linked below) where the Rav of a MO shul allowed a woman to say Birchas Gomel at the Bimah on shabbos morning.?
> My sense is that there is nothing wrong with that Halachicly. But My
> sense is also that this would never be allowed in a mainstrean
> Orthodox Shul that isn't MO. The Rav, Idan Scher, is not in any way OO
> and seems to be quite mainstream Orthodox by virtue of his educational
> background.
> I wonder how this event would be treated by the more right wing e
> 'Agudah'?type?shuls. Would they allow it? Is there a Hashkafa problem
> ...or maybe even a Halachic problem? and if so, what would those
> problems be??
> https://www.jta.org/2025/09/12/ideas/my-congregant-was-stabbed-for-being-jewish-what-happened-the-next-shabbat-was-incredible

The Poskim certainly discuss a woman saying HaGomel from the Women?s
gallery. Some of those women?s galleries would be curtained, others would
be behind the men, raised etc

This really is about expectations and standards. Presumably an Aguda style
lady would be satisfied if her husband said it on her behalf as he might do
after she gives birth and the issue would not be germane.

In a Shule where for example a Bat Mitzvah (girl) comes after the davening
and speaks a Dvar Torah from the Bima etc then one might expect that a lady
saying HaGomel after davening in that manner after davening would not be an
issue. If I were the Rabbi in such a Shule though I would publish
guidelines about appropriate dress for both males and females who are
involved in any liturgy both during or after the service and would include
Kisui Rosh etc and in a place where men would wear a suit jacket when going
to an important meeting/seeing a Government Minister etc I would include
that.

If it was a Shule where there was incredible pressure to do this after
layning, I?d discuss with a Posek (personally that would be Rav Schachter)
as this would be a case by case situation I expect.

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2025 14:28:17 +0000 (UTC)
From: Harry Maryles <hmary...@yahoo.com>
> There is a fascinating article in JTA (linked below) where the Rav of
> a MO shul allowed a woman to say Birchas Gomel at the Bimah on shabbos
> morning.?

There are very few details given in the article about exactly when the
Birkat haGomel was said.

The poskim (Beer Heteiv, Mishna Berura) talk about a woman saying Birkat
haGomel during Keri'at haTorah from the other side of the Mechitsa.

There is no mention in the Article of a Torah, only a "Podium". The woman
was surrounded by her Family and her recitation was followed by dancing.

Sounds more like a post-davening celebration. Before guessing, the Shul
rabbi should be consulted.

Kol Tuv,  Shana Tova, Beri'a, sheleiva u-metuka
Aryeh

--------------------------------------------------
Professor Emeritus Aryeh A. Frimer
37 Hanassi Harishon
Rehovot 7630306, ISRAEL
E-mail (Preferred): Aryeh.Fri...@biu.ac.il

.
R' Aryeh Frimer suggested that "eirusin and nissuin were placed
back-to-back because of the Crusades", and R' Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
commented:

> This makes a lot of sense. The paucity of tangible records
> of the evolution of the practice remains remarkable.

I'm not sure, but I think RYGB is pointing out that we do have records
regarding the evolution of most *other* practices. In other words, most
other practices are first recorded as a "yesh omrim" or "nahagu..." or
something similar, whereas in this case, it seems that *everyone* did it
the old way, and then *everyone* did it the new way, with no evidence of
(as RYGB put it) "evolution".

I'd like to suggest that Heseba might be another example of this. It seems
that there was a universal style of eating meals which involved
individuals, each with their own recliner-couch and small table, and this
style was replaced with all those individuals seated on chairs around a
common table. This is mentioned in halacha most notably regarding the
Pesach Seder, but I vaguely recall it being relevant to Mezuman, and also
to the rules of saying Hatov V'Hamaytiv on wine. Maybe somewhere in Hilchos
Aveilus too.

In any case, I am not aware of anyone ever writing that "They still recline
on their couches, but we sit at a table."  Rather, there seems to be a
unanimous observation that "People *used to* recline on their couches, but
nowadays *everyone* sits at a table."

Over the years, I have noticed other changes of this sort, but of course I
cannot remember them right now. These are cases where the minhag changed in
one of two ways: (A) The change happened so slowly - nay, insidiously! -
that no one noticed until it was a fait accompli. (B) The change happened
so quickly, and for reasons that were so obvious to those who lived through
it, that they didn't bother recording their experiences.

If RAF is correct about blaming Kiddushin/Nisuin on the Crusades, then it
would be an example of B. The evolution of Heseba is a mystery to me. I
hope others may find other examples from which we might find a pattern.

Akiva Miller
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