Avodah Mailing List

Volume 43: Number 35

Mon, 09 Jun 2025

• 1. Re: Adam 1 and adam 2 (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Re: amen (Akiva Miller)
• 3. nedarim and shevuos (Sholom Simon)

.
R'  Joel Rich asked:
> Adam 1 and adam 2 -- did the rav think that the dialectic
> was resolvable or that one would continually oscillate
> between the two poles? Sometimes I think it may just be an
> issue of semantics.

To me the question is very similar to science's grudging acceptance of
light as being both a particle and a wave. Despite the inherent
contradiction of light being both at the same time, science's application
in the l'maaseh is to treat light however you prefer for any particular
instance. If today's experiment works better if light is a particle, then
go for it; and if tomorrow's calculation works better if light is a wave,
then that's kosher too. And if the two end up contradicting each other,
well, what did you expect? That's reality - deal with it.

So too for Adam 1 and Adam 2. If today's shiur makes sense for Adam 1,
great, and if tomorrow's article works for Adam 2, that's okay also. It is
not a contradiction: It's Eilu V'Eilu Divrei Elokim Chayim.

Akiva Miller
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.
R' Joel Rich asked:
> I put together a shiur on when to answer amen when aveilim
> are saying kaddish at different speeds. ... especially when
> it?s so asynchronous that it?s not even toch kdei dibbur?
> If you only answer once, is it the first or last? What about
> if toch kdei ? answer the first or the last?

I'll answer the last question first, because I think it is so simple: If
the first and last are within Toch Kdei Dibbur of each other, then halacha
considers them to be simultaneous, and so one answers only once, and it
doesn't matter which you're closer to.

When the speeds are very different, it is more complicated. Since they are
not said simultaneously, it seems to me very simple that, l'halacha, one
ought to respond to both of them. But the l'maaseh is more complicated,
because the cacophony can make it very difficult to be aware of the
individual recitations.

(Currently, I am saying Kaddish for a cousin, so my decision is not who I
should respond to, but who I should try to match speeds with, and I always
opt for the slowest. My reasoning is that *everyone* should match speeds
with the slowest, because that is within everyone's ability, whereas many
people are simply incapable of keeping up with the speedsters. [This
consideration is totally separate from the idea that everyone ought to say
Kaddish calmly and deliberately.])

Akiva Miller
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Regarding "kol shehu", RMB said:

> Generalize that, and maybe you have a tool to help you think through the
> question of "is this mashehu literal?"
>
> 1- Does this issur refer to a specific kind of object?
> 2- Does that object have a minimal size?
>
> Or maybe not. Maybe it's *only* the noun "okhel" that has a minimum size.
> Other cases aren't crossing my mind right now.
>

A neder to not get hana'ah from a piece of food?

Switching to the subject line, this is probably a softball question, but if
a neder relates to a cheftza, and a shevua applies to an action, why do
people say "bli neder" so often in the context of actions?

And while I'm at it:  a few days ago, on the daf, the gemara (around
Shevuos 29?) spoke about Moshe (in Devarim) getting am yisroel to swear
they will follow the mitzvos.  The discussion revolved around Moshe's
specific lashon, but I found it curious that I didn't see a mention of the
issue of "isn't this a shevuas shav" (particularly because we had just
finished discussing shavuas shav).  Thoughts?

-- Sholom
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