Avodah Mailing List

Volume 41: Number 14

Tue, 21 Feb 2023

• 1. the Sne and the Aish (Chana Luntz)
• 2. Re: facile historicistic solutions (Micha Berger)
• 3. Re: Keeping Well Away From Sheker (Micha Berger)

I was looking at Shemot 3:2 the other day and thinking about the Sne, and it
struck me that what Moshe Rabbanu saw in the Sne is described as "aish" and
"bo'ar eish" despite it not being consumed.  And it struck me that these are
the same words used in the pasuk in Shemot 35:3 ie the same root in lo
t'vairu aish.  Now we usually think of aish as being fuel + oxygen -> carbon
dioxide + water, ie the scientific definition of fire - and certainly that
is mostly what they were kindling over the years, and what they were
avoiding kindling on Shabbat in the midbar.

 

But, is not the use of the same words in the pasuk about the Sne suggesting
that actually aish is a wider category than fire?  And I passed some Xmas
trees (well it was that time of year), and I thought to myself - are these
not bushes that have fire in them (some of them had flickering LEDs that
were good approximations of flames) and yet are not consumed?

 

And I wondered if this could be the missing link that we have been looking
for?  ie perhaps this pasuk in Shemot 3:2 is making it clear that aish, as
prohibited over in that pasuk in Shemot 35:3, includes not only what we
might think of as classic aish where some fuel has to be consumed, but also
where there is production of visible light photons (what else could Moshe
has seen - and note it says that he saw, not he felt, the key aspect was the
visual, not any warmth that might or might not have been generated) even
though no fuel is consumed?  Now at the time of the midbar and Chazal, we
were not in a position to deliberately generate visible light photons in any
other way than by classic fire - but now we are (inter alia LEDs)!  And in
fact the pasukim were coming to teach us, amongst other things, that such a
generation is within the category of fire even if nothing is consumed? And
maybe that, inter alia, explains why m'avir is the one melacha explicitly
mentioned in the Torah, and not merely learnt out by Torah sheba'al Peh from
the melachot in the mishkan?

 

Have you seen anybody make this link before?

 

I also thought about the fact that aish hachama is not prohibited for use
d'orita and whether that negated what is being said (since aish hachama is
produced by nuclear fusion).  But given that it takes place in what is,
halachically, understood to be shamayim, it seemed to me that it could be
excluded for that reason, and were we to manage to produce nuclear fusion
here on earth as our primary source of light and heat, we would still
understand that as aish, even though again it is not classic fire.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Regards

 

Chana

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On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 06:35:15AM +0200, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> > To be sure, post-hazal gedolim, rishonim or aharonim may be affected by the
> > impact of contact with a general culture to which their predecessors had
> > not been exposed and to whose content and direction they respond. Upon
> > critical evaluation of what they have encountered, they may incorporate
> > what they find consonant with tradition and reject what is not. In the
> > process, they may legitimately enlarge the bounds of their hashkafah and
> > introduce hitherto unperceived insights and interpretations."

> That's complex and not reproduceable -- Thoughts?

I fail too see the problem. Yes, it is complex. Yes, it's not reproducible.
Find a rav whom you are convinced has sufficient yir'as Shamayim to sort
out what he honestly believes can be used to further Torah from his
negi'os, and don't follow someone who can't.

But who ever said these things are supposed to be simple?

Chodesh Tov!
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On Thu, Feb 02, 2023 at 10:17:41AM -0500, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
> Another one not discussed in the classics, as far as I know, is one we've
> been learning just these weeks -- Moshe's continuing pretense to Par'oh that
> all he wanted was a three-day expedition into the desert, with the clear
> implication (though never explicitly stated) that then we'd return to work.

HQBH's continuing pretense of Par'oh.

You can't blame Moshe for saying what Hashem told him to. Moshe kept
his word. He said "This is what Hashem said", and it was!

So this may be more related to His report to Avraham about why Sarah
laughed than a usual case of midevar sheqer.

> On the original question I agree with RCL that an employee honestly
> expressing support for his employer is not a devar sheker at all, because he
> is not even indirectly implying that he can personally confirm the
> employer's specific factual claims.  Even if he says he believes the claims,
> that does not imply that he has personal knowledge of them so it's not a
> devar sheker.

In any case, the employee supporting for his employer sounds a lot like
Rashi on "kalah naah vechasudah" -- because we can assume in the chasan's
eyes, she indeed is.

Midevar sheqer tirchaq has loopholes for shinui es ha'ames (as opposed
to outright sheqer) for the sake of shalom, milaiyhu (saying you don't
know something you do, for anavah), bepuriah (because tashmish hamitah
is private) and be'ushpiza (to protect a host from being inundated).
(C.f. Yeavmos 63b, BM 23b-24a)

So, perhaps saying they were going to serve Hashem three days distance
and only letting it be implied that they would return afterward rather
than continue further would have qualified as doing so mipenei shalom.

And of course, Mitzayim was killing us. Piquach nefesh trumps midevar
sheqer anyway.

Chodesh Tov!
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 For a mitzvah is a lamp,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   And the Torah, its light.
Author: Widen Your Tent                      - based on Mishlei 6:2
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF


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