Avodah Mailing List

Volume 36: Number 136

Wed, 19 Dec 2018

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Cantor Wolberg
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 22:22:45 -0500
[Avodah] Mechila

With an extremely unusual exception, all professionals will tell you
that the first time your husband assaults you must be the last time.
Furthermore the law is clear and unequivocal: Any incidence of 
a domestic crime must be dealt with by arresting the guilty party,
be it husband or wife. I can tell you that any call we get involving a 
domestic always results in an arrest.
Dina D'Malchusa Dina 
This is the law and we are mandated to follow it.
I have no sympathy for a husband who assaults his wife or a wife who
assaults her husband. If you assault your spouse, you do not deserve
your spouse.
Mechila or no mechila, the consequences are serious and the law must
be followed. 

Quoted from a rabbinic source:
"A woman called. Some of her ribs were broken. She wanted to know if she
was supposed to be mochel / forgive her husband. I told her definitely not.
She persisted - isn't it a special mitzvah, close to Yom Kippur, a segulah
that Hashem should forgive us for all our wrongdoing? It told her that it
would be no mitzvah at all."

I'm guessing there's more to the story and that the rabbinic advisor felt
that her not being mochel would have an impact on her husband's actions. If
not I would have guessed she would have been told to leave him? FWIW IIRC
the only exception to the forgiveness rule is motzi shem ra (spreading
negatively about the individual).

Your thoughts?
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Message: 2
From: Ben Waxman
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 21:13:33 +0200
[Avodah] Rambam Hilchot Trumot

The last halacha in the Rambam's Hilchot Truma states the anyone eating 
trumah says an additional bracha (v'tzivanu l'achol truma). He adds that 
"qibalnu v'ra'inu" people say this bracha even if they eat challa of 
chutz l'aretz.

Qibalnu I understand but what does the Rambam mean when says that "we've 
seen people say this bracha on challa of chutz l'aretz"?


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Message: 3
From: Micha Berger
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 15:56:05 -0500
Re: [Avodah] Rambam Hilchot Trumot

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 09:13:33PM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: Qibalnu I understand but what does the Rambam mean when says that
: "we've seen people say this bracha on challa of chutz l'aretz"?

First thought, just to help the ball rolling.

Teimanim give challah to kohanim who are qetanim. They are allowed to
eat challah, and as qetanim, the "only" problem with eating it whle
tamei is chinukh. And should chinukh trump actually doing the mitzvah
challah kehalakhah?

So, there are people actually eating challah in the Rambam's world.

Challah of chu"l has leniencies challah in EY does not, despite both
being deOraisa. (In particular, it can be taken retroactively; you can
eat before hafrashah.)

Tir'u baTov!

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Message: 4
From: Cantor Wolberg
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:28:25 -0500
[Avodah] Asara b'Teves

The message of this commemoration is that after the destruction, we must trace its sources and mark its stages; 
we must look backwards to events that are not earth-shattering and perceive how the seeds of the destruction 
on the Ninth of Av were planted on the Tenth of Teves. The more we study history, the more we learn that 
we should not concentrate only on the final act itself, but also on all the stages that led up to it.  
This also applies to the Holocaust which is probably the worst tragedy in Jewish history.  
Along these lines we also recite Kaddish on the 10th of Tevet for all those whose date of death is unknown, who perished in the Holocaust.
Apparently, the tenth of Teves is "the  Day of God" about which many prophets spoke ?  the tenth  day of the tenth month.
(The 10th of Teves is the only fast day that can fall on a Friday).
The number ten in kabala is related to the sefira of malkhut,  and therefore, the very essence of the day is appropriate  to the theme of God's kingship.
Chazal teach that at midnight a north wind would blow, rousing King David from his  sleep  to serve his Creator. 
It is in the middle of the night, specifically in the depths of the darkest part of the night, that the sovereignty of Israel awakens, 
and the kingship of God is revealed in the world.May the Kingship of the Almighty finally rule all mankind thus fulfilling the vision of the prophets:  
"Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall men learn war anymore; for all men, both great and small shall know the Lord.?
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Message: 5
From: Zev Sero
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:09:38 -0500
Re: [Avodah] Rambam Hilchot Trumot

On 16/12/18 3:56 pm, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 09:13:33PM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> : Qibalnu I understand but what does the Rambam mean when says that
> : "we've seen people say this bracha on challa of chutz l'aretz"?
> First thought, just to help the ball rolling.
> Teimanim give challah to kohanim who are qetanim.

I assume Sefardim also, though I don't know this for certain.  But the 
SA certainly says to do so, and only the Rema says the minhag is not to.

> They are allowed to eat challah, and as qetanim, the "only" problem
> with eating it whle tamei is chinukh. And should chinukh trump
> actually doing the mitzvah challah kehalakhah?
AFAIK it's got nothing to do with chinuch; the reason it's given to 
ketanim rather than gedolim is because they have never experienced 
tum'ah that comes from their own bodies.  It can also be given to an 
adult cohen who has been to the mikveh.

The Rema says this is not our minhag because since it's not eaten in EY 
there is no need for it to be eaten in chu"l.  Other acharonim suggest 
that it's because we have no cohanim meyuchasim, so we're not even 
certain this child is a cohen in the first place, or because we're 
worried that the child won't be careful with it and it'll get into 
people's food, or just that if it's not burned immediately it will 
somehow find its way to someone who shouldn't eat it.

> Challah of chu"l has leniencies challah in EY does not, despite both
> being deOraisa.

Chalah of chu"l is midrabanan.    (Nowadays even chalah of EY is 
midrabanan, but it has an ikkar min hatorah, whereas in chu"l it's 
entirely midrabanan.)

Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 5779 to all
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper

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Message: 6
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:25:41 -0500
Re: [Avodah] Rambam Hilchot Trumot

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:09:38PM -0500, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
: >Challah of chu"l has leniencies challah in EY does not, despite both
: >being deOraisa.

: Chalah of chu"l is midrabanan...

Sorry, chalah of crops made from chu"l that were brought into EY are
indeed deOraisa, and yes those aforementioned qulos still apply.

(Similarly, challah from Israeli grain that was needed in chu"l is
only chayav miderabbanan.)

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             You will never "find" time for anything.
mi...@aishdas.org        If you want time, you must make it.
http://www.aishdas.org                     - Charles Buxton
Fax: (270) 514-1507

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Message: 7
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:14:54 -0500
Re: [Avodah] Chanukah Party and Lighting the Menorah

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 09:33:18PM -0500, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
:             But the Igros Moshe OC 4:105:7 says that one *can* say the
: brachos in such a case, and he points out that this is also the
: opinion of the Chemed Moshe, cited by the author of the MB in Shaar
: Hatziyun 672:17, and that the Shaar Hatziyun concludes, "if one wants
: to act like that, we don't stop him."

Going back to the SA (OC 677:3) the mechaber says that *yeish omerim*
that if you light at home alone after others have lit there without you,
you make the berakhos. Interestingly, the se'if opens "yeish omerim",
it's the only opinion quoted.

The Rama quote the Mordechai that this is because he is obligated to
see the neiros, vekhein nohagim.

Ateres Zeqeinim ad loc quotes the Maharash: veyeish cholqin. So,
if you want to be machmir to light, (he calls it "rotzeh lahchamir")
light without a berakhah.

The Maharil says that once you light on your own, you showed you didn't
want to be yotzei with the earlier lighting, so you weren't. And that's
why it's not a berakhah levatalah.

The picture I'm trying to show here is that the discussion about the
berakhah appears to be because this is after someone else lit for the
home. Not because you're alone.

And, if I understand the Mordechai correctly, he appears to be saying
that whether or not the purpose of the mitzvah is pirsumei nisah,
the actual mitzvah includes just seeing the lights. Perhaps because
even internalizing the neis I myself already know about intellectually
qualifies as "pirsum". But that's not how R' Moshe discusses it. He
simply says that pirsum isn't me'aqeiv.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             You are not a human being in search
mi...@aishdas.org        of a spiritual experience. You are a
http://www.aishdas.org   spiritual being immersed in a human
Fax: (270) 514-1507      experience. - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

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Message: 8
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 19:05:16 +0200
[Avodah] lighting the menora

 As noted in a previous Halacha Yomis, nowadays, the menorah
> is lit primarily for one's family, and not to publicize the
> miracle to the public.

My impression is that most modern poskim certainly in EY disagree and that
light outdoors for the public

Eli Turkel
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Message: 9
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:24:13 -0500
[Avodah] Comedy -- is it good for the Jews?

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 9:02am EST, R Moshe Y. Gluck replied to me on Areivim
in a conversation about a stand up comic at a venue that lost their hekhsher
over it:
: One can argue that comedy, in it of itself, is assur, independent of
: subject matter because of Assur L'maalos Piv Schok B'Olam Hazeh (Berachos
: 31a).

This gemara makes an interesting contrast to the rather famous gemara
(Taanis 22a) about Rabbi Beroqa Choza'ah and Elihahu haNavi in the marke
of Bei Lefet. Elihahu points out two beduchei as among those there who
would merit olam haba, eiuther because they chear up the depressed or
bring peace to those arguing.

Given the first "i nami" in Taanis, where's the chiluq to be drawn?

Another problem I have understandign the gemara in Taanis. The
market in question was full of Jews. (Another person Eliyahu pointed
out was noted for not dressing like one, but turned out to be employed
by the prison system and he protected the women in his jail.) And
"kol Yisrael yeish lahem cheileq". So why are just these people
being pointed out as being "bar alma de'asi"?

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             Between stimulus & response, there is a space.
mi...@aishdas.org        In that space is our power to choose our
http://www.aishdas.org   response. In our response lies our growth
Fax: (270) 514-1507      and our freedom. - Victor Frankl, (MSfM)

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Message: 10
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:20:54 -0500
Re: [Avodah] Reward?

On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:30:25PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: The beginning of the Aruch Hashulchan states (I think he may be quoting
: the Smak) Malachim (angels?) have no yetzer hara (evil inclination?),
: animals have a yetzer hara but no daat (knowledge?). Thus malachim get
: no schar (reward?) and animals no onesh (punishment?)

This is the end of OC 1:1.

(AhS Yomi for 4th. Yes, cycle 2 is starting in just 4+ months! The first
Tur for the AhS to write on was CM, which is why you find the haqdamah
there. So "beginning" was ambiguous. Or I'm just a nitpicker.)

: Is this knowledge of HKB"H? What does it mean to have a yetzer hara - Is
: it equivalent of free will? ....

I took the se'if to mean that angels have no YhR and therefore lack free
will. Animals have no *capacity for* knowledge, and therefore couldn't
possibly have a YhT, and thus also no bechirah. Only people, caught
in tention between YhR and (properly applied?) da'as have bechirah,
and that's why only we get both reward and punishment.

:                                                          The dogs being
: rewarded for not barking?

There is an interesting implication from the AhS that animals do get
sekhar, and angels do get oneshim.

Perhaps it makes sense even without presuming they have bechirah if we
take a causal approach to sekhar va'onesh. The animal that does the right
thing, even through no credit of its own, is still thereby a superior
being than before. Especially if it is more likely to repeat behavior
done once (or more likely to refrain if refrained once). And similarly
in the reverse, for angels that fail.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             It is harder to eat the day before Yom Kippur
mi...@aishdas.org        with the proper intent than to fast on Yom
http://www.aishdas.org   Kippur with that intent.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rav Yisrael Salanter

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Message: 11
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:34:47 -0500
Re: [Avodah] culture

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 05:41:41AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: My response to a Cross Currents post on the new popular chareidi music
: and literature:
:> As far as the general low culture issue, can we at least agree that even
:> the "frum" low culture does in fact represent some acculturation from
:> the general society around us? Some would argue that conscious awareness
:> of this acculturation allows us to better manage it.

: My question to the chevrah-Has history shown that nonawareness is the
: better strategy?

It has to be slower, when you think you haven't yet assimilated culture
and you're trying to hold the line, than when you consciously choose
to have a strategy with regard to acculturation, and expect the line
to move. One will only have unconscious motion, the other will have
conscious change as well.

So for the masses, it means less assimilation.

Then we have to ask if cultural assumilation is a bad thing. Does Hashem
not want us to sing our tefillos to the kosher elements of the sound of
our era? Is there a Jewish aesthetic to begin with? Way deep wading in
this issue.

However, for the yechidim who realize it's going on and that everyone
is fooling themselves.... I see a big OTD risk as cynicism is bound to
creap in, as well as (including?) a loss of respect for any authority
figures who are fooled or caught blindfolding others.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             Despair is the worst of ailments. No worries
mi...@aishdas.org        are justified except: "Why am I so worried?"
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507

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Message: 12
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 13:28:37 -0500
Re: [Avodah] contact sports.

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 05:29:12AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: I know there is a debate as to whether the ability to waive liability
: (i.e. Reuvain tells Shimon it's OK for Shimon to hit Reuvain) refers to
: both monetary and spiritual liabilities...

Does it work at all? You can be mochel nezeq when it's mamon, but
corporeal? Wouldn't Shim'on be a rasha for lifting his hand to Re'uvein
either way?


Can a parent permit a child to wound them? If yes, why are there such
problems for a doctor to treat their parent (assuming others can provide
similar care)?

What about voluntary surgery, eg cosmetic surgery not for shidduchim or
another devar mitzvah?

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             Take time,
mi...@aishdas.org        be exact,
http://www.aishdas.org   unclutter the mind.
Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Rabbi Simcha Zissel Ziv, Alter of Kelm


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