Avodah Mailing List

Volume 35: Number 114

Sun, 24 Sep 2017

• 1. Re: Kiddush Levana on Motzai Tisha B?av (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Re: Kiddush Levana on Motzai Tisha B?av (Zev Sero)
• 3. Re: Tuitiion Breaks and Tzedaka (Arie Folger)
• 4. time as a spiral (Sholom Simon)
• 5. oseh hashalom (Sholom Simon)
• 6. Re: oseh hashalom (Zev Sero)
• 7. Re: time as a spiral (Zev Sero)

R' Joel Rich asked:

> Is it a common practice to say Kiddush Levana on Motzai Tisha
> B?av even though one is still fasting in order to be sure to
> have a minyan?

I'm not aware of any advantage in saying Kiddush Levana with a minyan,
as compared to wwithout a minyan. I thought that we say it Motzaei
Tisha B'Av as a general z'rizin makdimin thing, or because only a few
days are left and we fear running out of time. Both reasons are even
more relevant on Motzaei Yom Kippur.

Akiva Miller

On 18/09/17 18:19, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:

> I'm not aware of any advantage in saying Kiddush Levana with a minyan,
> as compared to wwithout a minyan.

Without a minyan one can't say the kaddish.


-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all

RMB wrote:
> Which raises the obvious question, back on-topic for Avodah:
> Since published tuition is more money than my own kid costs,
> is that differential in money owed the school in the manner RAW
> described -- because that's what the market price is? Or is the
> differential maaser money that can therefore be given to other
> urgent causes?

> I know both of the local day schools quote posqim who say one
> may use maaser money to pay the differential. I am wondering if
> promoting that pesaq might not backfire among parents who are
> currently paying part of the differential based on the above reasoning.

 From a chapter in a forthcoming book of mine:

It is meritorious to support Torah scholars, and you may dedicate a
portion of your [maaser kesafim] funds even to support one's own son
studying Torah. You may likewise use a portion of these funds to pay
for the your adult children's yeshiva gedola, midrasha and college
tuition, but you should not draw on these funds for paying tuition
while in elementary or high school. [1] However, someone lives a modest
lifestyle and still cannot otherwise make ends meet, may draw on these
funds even to pay for a portion of his minor children's Jewish day school
tuition. [2] Someone who benefits from a scholarship at an institution of
Jewish education should prioritize that institution when giving charity,
over other institutions. [3]

1: Chatam Sofer YD 249

2: Igrot Moshe YD2 ?113, but Aruch haShulchan YD 249:7 disagrees

3: Oral ruling by Rav Hershel Schachter

It stands to reason that tuition beyond cost is definitely counted as
tzedaka, as the whole disagreement regards a father's obligation to his
minor children disqualifying tution from being considered tzedaka. But
what's beyond that should reasonably count as tzedaka. I once sent my kids
to one school where the rabbinic committee established how much of tuition
may be counted towards ma'asser (they were even more generous than what we
are discussing, since it is a poor community).

-- 
Arie Folger,
Visit my blog at http://rabbifolger.net/

<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/01/28/wir-missionieren-nicht-aber-warum-
nicht/>

An Aish article notes:

>The Jewish model of time is a spiral. While time is certainly moving 
>forward, it progresses ahead specifically through a seasonal cycle. 
>Each year we pass through the same seasonal coordinates that are 
>imbued with whatever spiritual potentials were initially established 
>within them.

There are lots of examples of this (Lot served matza, Rashi says it 
was Pesach, etc.).  Moed meets "meeting" -- where we meet H', 
etc.  The 10th of Tishrei has "forgiveness" somehow embedded in that 
time (which is why H' forgave us on that day), etc.

I've also been told: there's no source for this notion in Chazal.

Thoughts?  (And, if not from Chazal -- then where/when does it first 
appear in Jewish thought?)

-- Sholom 

The most commonly cited reason that we say "oseh hashalom" rather 
than "oseh shalom" in kaddish during the 10 days, is that the 
gematria of hashalom is equivalent to the gematria of Safriel, the 
malach that "writes" us into the Book.

(I just recently read somewhere else: "Hagahos Mordechai [Miseches 
Rosh Hashanah 720 he states as follows: Safiriel is the Gematria of 
Oseh and Oseh is the Gematria of Hashalom. Alternatively this hints 
to the kindness of Hashem that swerves the judgment to merit in a 
case that the sins and merits are equal, and the verse states "Maaseh 
Hatzedaka Shalom"."  (I don't understand this second reason: the 
"sholom" in that last phrase doesn't have a "hey")

I find it a bit odd to change the nusach of something so important as 
kaddish because of gematria.  Do we see that elsewhere?  (Or, are 
their other reasons I am missing?)

KvCT!

-- Sholom

On 19/09/17 16:33, Sholom Simon via Avodah wrote:
> 
> I find it a bit odd to change the nusach of something so important as 
> kaddish because of gematria.  Do we see that elsewhere?  (Or, are their 
> other reasons I am missing?)

Nusach Hatefilah, especially Nusach Ashkenaz, was designed in the first 
place largely on the basis of gematrias and word and letter counts.

-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all

On 19/09/17 14:48, Sholom Simon via Avodah wrote:
> 
>> The Jewish model of time is a spiral. While time is certainly moving 
>> forward, it progresses ahead specifically through a seasonal cycle. 
>> Each year we pass through the same seasonal coordinates that are 
>> imbued with whatever spiritual potentials were initially established 
>> within them.

I assume this is in the context of a discussion of the way people in 
ancient times used to see time as cyclical rather than as progressing, 
as we moderns see it.

> I've also been told: there's no source for this notion in Chazal.
> 
> Thoughts?  (And, if not from Chazal -- then where/when does it first 
> appear in Jewish thought?)

The idea that specific days have fixed properties that repeat every time 
they come around is found everywhere in Chazal.  They took it completely 
for granted, and of course it fits into the cyclical way the ancients 
saw all of time.  But it's clear from the Torah that they *didn't* see 
time as cyclical.  So the author of this article uses the spiral to 
explain how they did see it.

But it's impossible to discuss this entire subject without the insight 
that there are different ways to see time, and without the two models -- 
cyclical and progressive -- to contrast, and to propose syntheses as 
this author does.  Chazal did not have the historical perspective to be 
aware of this whole dichotomy.  I suspect they were unaware that the 
nochrim of their era didn't see time as they did, and that the nochrim 
were just as unaware that Jews didn't see time as *they* did. Only 
looking back from 2000 years later is this difference apparent, and we 
can discuss how the Torah's progressive view of history can be 
reconciled with dates repeating themselves, by using the spiral analogy.

-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all


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