Avodah Mailing List

Volume 35: Number 60

Fri, 05 May 2017

• 1. Re: nidche (Zev Sero)
• 2. Re: Nidche (Akiva Miller)
• 3. Re: Nidche (Ben Waxman)
• 4. Nidche (David Havin)
• 5. Re: Nidche (Akiva Blum)
• 6. FW: Nidche (David Havin)
• 7. candles and fire safety (Zev Sero)
• 8. Re: candles and fire safety (Rich, Joel)
• 9. The Tatoo Taboo and Permanent Make-Up Too (Professor L. Levine)
• 10. Re: The Tatoo Taboo and Permanent Make-Up Too (Zev Sero)
• 11. Re: nidche (Daniel Israel)
• 12. Re: Burning sold chameitz (Daniel Israel)

On 03/05/17 09:06, Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer via Avodah wrote:
> That's fine. A secular holiday can and should be pushed off. But it is
> no longer a religious holiday that can allow someone to say Hallel --
> certainly -- with a bracha and push off sefirah minhagim. The Halachically
> viable basis for Hallel and simcha during sefirah is only applicable to
> 5 Iyar.

Why can't a religious holiday be defined by the day of the week, like 
Shabbos Hagodol and Behab?

-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all

R' Micha Berger reposted from elsewhere:

>  Initially, Rav Levine followed Rav Soloveichik's ruling on this
>  subject and instructed his congregants to always recite Hallel on
>  the fifth of Iyar. However, the internet forced him to change his
>  position. If I understand correctly from our brief conversation,
>  Rav Levine's reasoning was that, in the past, Yom Ha-Atzma'ut
>  celebrations were local, taking place in synagogues and schools with
>  perhaps some articles in the Jewish newspaper. It was easy for a
>  community to determine its own date to celebrate.

Why should telecommunications affect the day that my community says
Hallel? Should we all start reading Megilas Esther on 15 Adar?

R' Ben Waxman wrote:

> Yom Hazikaron/Yom Azmaut are unique in that they are pushed
> off even if they don't start on Shabbat but even on Motzash.

Maybe not as unique as it seems. Isn't there a gezera against Motzaei
Shabbos weddings for exactly this same reason - because of the
likelihood that the preparations would begin on Shabbos?

RBW also wrote:

> My dream is that people will come to understand how wrong it
> is to make people (including dati'im) work on Shabbat when Lag
> B'omer falls on Motzash and will take the appropriate steps.

Amen!!

Akiva Miller

Someone pointed out to me off line that the reading is on Friday, Al 
HaNissim on Shabbat, and Seuda/Matanot is on Sunday.

Ben

On 5/1/2017 11:42 PM, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> It always will need to be, just like on a Purim Meshulash the reading 
> is pushed off until Sunday.
>
> Ben
>
> \
>

Yom Ha-Atzma?ut can never fall on a Thursday.  Under the current
arrangements, it cannot fall on a Monday, so those who fast on BeHaB and
also wish to celebrate Yom Ha-Atzma?ut no longer need to be concerned.  In
Hilchot Yom Ha-Atzma?ut ve-Yom Yerushalayim (ed Nahum Rakover, 1973), there
is an article by Rabbi Meir Kaplan which discusses what to do when the two
did coincide.



David Havin
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On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Avram Sacks via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> At shacharit we did not say tachanun and davened full hallel
> (but w/out a bracha at the beginning and end.)    Betwen mincha and
> ma'ariv on erev YhA, Rabbi Engel gave a similar drash, adding that it
> is a beautiful thing that all of klal yisrael, observant, or not yet
> observant, accepts that the day of celebration is as celebrated in
> Israel, even when it is moved to avoid chilul shabbat.     He added
> that it is fitting and proper that we, as a dati community care about
> those who are not yet observant, rather than say, we will observe YhA
> on hey Iyar and not care about what others will do.


?Since the issue here is tachanun, hallel and suspending sefira
restrictions, I fail to follow his logic.
We are being asked to not say tachanun on the same day as the
not-yet-observant?, on 6th Iyar. But why the 6th any more than the 5th. We
should say hallel on the 6th, the same day as the not-yet-observant. Hardly.
Sefira restrictions are suspended on the 6th like the not-yet-observant?

If the entire sentiment is when we should have ceremonies to mark the
significance of the State, you could that any day, or every day, as often
as you like.

Akiva
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I wrote in haste.  Yom Ha-Atzma?ut can fall on a Friday (as it does next
year), in which case it is brought forward a day.

David Havin





*From:* David Havin [mailto:djha...@djhavin.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, 4 May 2017 2:26 PM
*To:* Avodah <avo...@aishdas.org>
*Subject:* Nidche



Yom Ha-Atzma?ut can never fall on a Thursday.  Under the current
arrangements, it cannot fall on a Monday, so those who fast on BeHaB and
also wish to celebrate Yom Ha-Atzma?ut no longer need to be concerned.  In
Hilchot Yom Ha-Atzma?ut ve-Yom Yerushalayim (ed Nahum Rakover, 1973), there
is an article by Rabbi Meir Kaplan which discusses what to do when the two
did coincide.



David Havin
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[From an Areivim discussion of how to be safe from house fires on
Friday night.... -micha]

On 03/05/17 18:26, Akiva Miller via Areivim wrote:
> When eating the evening seudah elsewhere than where you're sleeping,
> consider lighting at the seudah location, so that they won't be
> unattended.

My mitzvah is to light my own home, not someone else's. I know women
have the custom of saying a bracha when lighting in someone else's home,
but I'm not sure on what basis they do so. It seems to me they're
not fulfilling their own mitzvah but rather helping their hostess with
her mitzvah, just like helping someone else with his bedikas chametz.
In that case (as opposed to doing the whole thing as his agent) one is
supposed to hear his bracha, not make ones own, so why is this different?

Thus it seems to me that this falls into the category of minhagei nashim
which differ from how men would pasken were they asked, but the women
have their own traditions and are not asking. But I don't see a basis
for men, who don't have those traditions, to follow them. Yes, we are
required to follow "toras imecha", but it seems to me that this means
those things that women have traditionally taught their sons, not those
that they have traditionally only taught their daughters.

-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all

The psak I receive many years ago is that you light where you sleep. One
concern was to make sure the candles would run long enough so they were
still burning when you came home so you could get benefit from them
Kt
Joel rich
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From

http://tinyurl.com/ken8l8y


There is a widespread myth, especially among secular American Jews, that a
Jew with a tattoo may not be buried in a Jewish cemetery[1]<https://ohr.edu/5195#_edn1>. This
prevalent belief, whose origin possibly lies with Jewish Bubbies wanting to
ensure that their grandchildren did not stray too far from the proper path,
is truly nothing more than a common misconception with absolutely no basis
in Jewish law. Jewish burial is not dependent on whether or not one
violated Torah law, and tattooing is no different in this matter than any
other Biblical prohibition.


Please see the above URL for more.


YL
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> Jewish burial is not dependent on whether or not one violated Torah law,

There are cemeteries, or sections within them, where only observant Jews 
can be buried, in line with the halacha that one may not bury a rasha 
next to a tzadik.  But a person who qualified for burial there would not 
be rejected for having a tattoo, since it would be assumed that he had 
long ago repented.  (The sin is *getting* the tattoo, not *having* it; 
once it's been done there's no obligation to remove it.)

-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all

On May 3, 2017, at 7:06 AM, Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
> That's fine. A secular holiday can and should be pushed off. But it is
> no longer a religious holiday that can allow someone to say Hallel --
> certainly -- with a bracha and push off sefirah minhagim. The Halachically
> viable basis for Hallel and simcha during sefirah is only applicable to
> 5 Iyar.

My gut is with you on this.  But then we do need to at least address the
precedent of Purim.  We don?t say Hallel, but we say a bracha on the
Megillah.  And Chazal were willing to push off Purim to avoid chillul
Shabbos.  Now there are some important differences.  For one thing, Purim
seemed to be a concern of ignorance, not secularity.  But it does seem to
establish the precedent that it can be done.

Whether it should be done is a different question.  Following the precedent
of Purim would seem to argue for pushing off until Sunday, but not until
Monday, and certainly not Tuesday.  Yom HaZikaron could be pushed earlier.

?
Daniel Israel
Kol BeRamah Torah Learning Center of Santa Fe, President
dan...@kolberamah.org





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On Apr 30, 2017, at 11:22 AM, Micha Berger via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 09:45:20PM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> : http://bit.ly/2pui5Hy
> : OK. But today i looked at the contract used to authorize the
> : rabbinate to sell one's chameitz (linked above). It says very
> : clearly, that they are selling ALL of a person's chameitz....
> : 
> : So my question returns: would someone burn chameitz that they found?
> 
> I think the "out" is the clause "sheyeish lanu ba'alus alava". So,
> chameitz that you didn't have baalus on, but was delivered on Pesach
> wouldn't be included. (And would be a davar shelo ba le'olam, even if
> you did try to include it.)

I have been bothered by this same question for many years, and mentioned to
my Rav over Pesach.  It was his impression that contracts in EY more
commonly did not use loshen including unmarked/unknown chametz.  I think
that is common in the US.  I suggested that it is motivated by a desire to
protect against the case of accidentally consuming chometz sh?evar alav
haPesach where the person completely lost track and by the time he ate it,
he didn?t remember he sold it.	But it does seem that burning it would
depend on how the contract was written.

And I would take it a step further and point out that if it was sold, there is a serious geneivah issue. 


> No, that doesn't cover things you owned since before Pesach and were
> unware "delo chazisei" that you only found on Pesach.
> 
> OTOH, wasn't that stuff already mevutal anyway?

Can I burn something that was hefker without acquiring it?  If I declare
something hefker (I?m not sure the legal implication of batel), and then I
burn it, wouldn?t that imply I?m koneh it?  Which makes things much worse.

?
Daniel Israel
Kol BeRamah Torah Learning Center of Santa Fe, President
dan...@kolberamah.org





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