Avodah Mailing List

Volume 34: Number 79

Tue, 12 Jul 2016

• 1. Birkas Kohanim and You (Professor L. Levine)
• 2. Re: RHS on shabbat - electricity (Rich, Joel)
• 3. Re: RHS on shabbat - electricity (Zev Sero)
• 4. Re: RHS on shabbat - electricity (Rich, Joel)
• 5. RHS on shabbat - electricity (Marty Bluke)
• 6. Re: RHS on shabbat - electricity (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: leviim on duty (Ben Waxman)
• 8. derabbanan (Eli Turkel)
• 9. Re: leviim on duty (Zev Sero)
• 10. kedusha of non-O paraphenalia (saul newman)
• 11. RHS on shabbat (saul newman)
• 12. Re: leviim on duty (Micha Berger)
• 13. Re: kedusha of non-O paraphenalia (Micha Berger)
• 14. Re: RHS on shabbat (Simon Montagu)

From

http://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/4925


Note the reference to followers of Shabtai Zvi below.

Unsuccessful in Chu"l

In Chutz La'aretz, although many Sefardic congregations do indeed Duchen
every day[2]<http://ohr.edu/4925#_edn2>, on the
other hand, among Ashkenazic Kehillos, this unique service is relegated to
Mussaf on Yom Tov as per the Rema's ruling (Orach Chaim 128, 44)[3]<http://ohr.edu/4925#_edn3>.


It is well known that many Gedolim including the Vilna Gaon, the Shulchan
Aruch HaRav, Rav Chaim Volozhiner, the Netziv, and Rav Nosson Adler tried
unsuccessfully to reinstate the minhag to perform Birkas Kohanim in
Ashkenazic Kehillos on a daily basis[4]<http://ohr.edu/4925#_edn4>. The
Aruch Hashulchan states that it is as if a Heavenly voice proclaimed not to
do Birkas Kohanim on a daily basis outside of Eretz Yisrael and considers
it a Decree from Above. In fact, the Beis Efraim[5]<http://ohr.edu/4925#_edn5>
vigorously defends the common practice in Chutz La'aretz not to duchen
daily, and maintains that it is an ancient custom as well, dating back to
the Maharam m'Rottenberg, and is a minhag kavua that can not be changed. He
cites many proofs to this and questions the validity of duchening daily,
even in Eretz Yisrael. He adds an interesting note from Rav Yaakov
Sasportas that one of the minhagim that the followers of the false messiah
Shabtai Zvi practiced was to duchen d
 aily. Come what may, not duchening in Chutz La'aretz on a daily basis has since become standard Ashkenazic practice.


On the other hand, in most parts of Eretz Yisrael[6]<http://ohr.edu/4925#_edn6>, and
especially in Yerushalayim, we (Ashkenazim included!) are fortunate to be
able to receive this unique bracha every day, and on Shabbos and Yom Tov
(and on fast days!) even more than once.


See the above URL for more.


YL

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> On 07/12/2016 07:11 AM, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
>> Usually he mentions the position of the shut harambam which clearly
>> states that it is prohibited to set in motion prior to Shabbat

> Which teshuvah is this and where can I find it?

My bad - it's actually a ktav yad:
????? ????"? ????? ??? (???? ??- ??? ??? ?') 
Peirush haRambam leMeseches Shabbos (Kesav Yad, sof pereq 1)
[transliteration mine -micha]

KT
Joel Rich

On 07/12/2016 11:40 AM, Rich, Joel wrote:
> My bad - it's actually a ktav yad:
> ????? ????"? ????? ??? (???? ??- ??? ??? ?') 
> Peirush haRambam leMeseches Shabbos (Kesav Yad, sof pereq 1)

If this is a reference to the Kafih edition of Perush Hamishnayos,
I can't find where he says this. (And if there's a substantive
difference between his translation and ibn Tibbon's I'd have expected
to see a footnote about it, but I didn't find one.)

-- 
Zev Sero               Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire
z...@sero.name          meaning merely by appending them to the two other
                        words `God can'.  Nonsense remains nonsense, even
                        when we talk it about God.   -- C S Lewis

>> it's actually a ktav yad: ????? ????"? ????? ??? (???? ??- ??? ??? ?') 
>> Peirush haRambam leMeseches Shabbos (Kesav Yad, sof pereq 1)

> If this is a reference to the Kafih edition of Perush Hamishnayos,
> I can't find where he says this. (And if there's a substantive
> difference between his translation and ibn Tibbon's I'd have expected
> to see a footnote about it, but I didn't find one.)

This is all I have on it as quoted from Rav Schachter - Perhaps someone
can ask him for more detail

KT
Joel Rich

Did he discuss the status of electronic water meters on shabbos? This is a
hot topic in Israel because they are being installed all over.
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On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 12:50:12PM -0400, Marty Bluke via Avodah wrote:
: Did he discuss the status of electronic water meters on shabbos? This is a
: hot topic in Israel because they are being installed all over.

You might wish to look at the thread "If you have an electronic water
meter, can you turn on your faucet on Shabbos?" (split among at least
three adjacent subject lines) at <http://j.mp/14gTQhq> or
http://www.aishdas.org/avoda
h/getindex.cgi?section=I#IF%20YOU%20HAVE%20AN%20ELECTRONIC%20WATER%20METER%
20CAN%20YOU

It was launched in July 2012, by one R' Marty Bluke. RHS's position was
not included, as far as I can tell. But we got quite a distance on pesiq
reishei delo nicha lei and delo echpas lei.

The consensus was "lo nicha lei" (IMHO) as we would prefer not being
billed, just as we wouldn't stop using the water if the meter were broken
and couldn't bill us.

So then it's a question of pesiq reishei delo nicha lei on a derabbanan,
a machloqes between the Trumas haDeshen and the MA (314:1).

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When faced with a decision ask yourself,
mi...@aishdas.org        "How would I decide if it were Ne'ilah now,
http://www.aishdas.org   at the closing moments of Yom Kippur?"
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter

I thought that they did their shmirah outside of the Temple Mount.

Plus, who  exactly are they going to tell not go up? The goyim or 
secular? The Dati Jews who do go prepare themselves?

Ben

On 7/8/2016 10:27 PM, saul newman via Avodah wrote:
> in my notes i found 2 reasons why leviim don't currently stand guard 
> duty at Har Habayit. one, jews don't control the area.

<<IOW, if there is no chiyuv de'oraisa to resist tei'avon to obey a
derabbanan, then how could the chakhamim create the meta-chiyuv in a
way that we would be duty-bound to obey? The meta-chuyuv too is versus
to'eivah, not rebellion. >>

R Avraham's main thesis is that whenever we are stumped by a dichotomy the
only way out is to find some middle ground. In our case there are two ways
of learning from a pasukh
1) the case of interest is a detail of the pasuk (hitpartot) in which case
it is a deoraisa
2) asmachta which makes it a derabbanan

Basically, Micha's question is that whichever we choose for "lo tasur" we
are in trouble.
RMA's answer is that there is a third possibility what he calls his-taa-fut
- branching out.
This is something that comes from the pasuk but indirectly.
He gives the example of a neder. The Torah says one must keep a neder.
However, it is the human that decides exactly what the neder says.

This third possibility is in between the first possibilities. This "branch"
comes from the pasuk "to tasur" but creates a derabban and not a deoraisa.
Someone who violates a derabbanan has not violated a torah prohibition.

RMA also pointed out that the Ritva claims that there are two kinds of
asmachta. One is just a device for memory and is a pure derabbanan. However
there is a second asmachta which is really hinted at by the pasuk.
Nevertheless it has a status of a rabbinic law.

RMA the claims that both the Rambam and Ramban agree to this even though
they seem to disagree. He the goes another step and says that nevertheless
they have a disagreement. Rambam holds that chazal are representatives of
G-d. However the Ramban disagrees as sees chazal as "shiluche didan" and we
must listen to chazal as a natural extension that we accepted on ourselves

this covers about 100 pages out of 500 in his book!!

-- 
Eli Turkel
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On 07/12/2016 04:27 PM, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> On 7/8/2016 10:27 PM, saul newman via Avodah wrote:

>> in my notes i found 2 reasons why leviim don't currently stand
>> guard duty at Har Habayit. one, jews don't control the area.

> I thought that they did their shmirah outside of the Temple Mount.

No, outside the Mount what is there to guard?  The first mishnos of
Tamid and Middos say that "Kohanim guard in three places, and Leviyim
in twenty-one", and all those places are on the Mount.


> Plus, who exactly are they going to tell not go up? The goyim or
> secular? The Dati Jews who do go prepare themselves?

The guards are not supposed to tell anyone anything.  They're supposed
to stand there, just like those men with the funny hats outside Buck House.
(Though not with such tough discipline; the gemara makes it clear that
they're allowed to sit, and to talk to each other.)

-- 
Zev Sero               Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire
z...@sero.name          meaning merely by appending them to the two other
                        words `God can'.  Nonsense remains nonsense, even
                        when we talk it about God.   -- C S Lewis

http:
//forward.com/news/344480/watch-ultra-orthodox-rip-up-prayer-book-to-protes
t-western-wall-bat-mitzvah/?attribution=our-picks-2-title

the commentors here have a fairly viscious back and forth.  but regardless
of the propriety of ripping up the WoW's books from a social standpoint ,
isn't it clear halachically that the prayer books have no kedusha , nor
other seforim even if the Shem is in them?
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Overriding the switch is against American law and so prohibited by dina
demalchuta.

---overriding what switch is this referring to?
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On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:27:45PM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: Plus, who  exactly are they going to tell not go up? The goyim or
: secular? The Dati Jews who do go prepare themselves?

The beefeaters in full dress outside Buckingham Palace are not really
the ones keeping the royal family safe. Their guard duty is part of the
honor one shows royalty.

The Mechilta, the Rambam (Beis haBachirach 8:1), the Chinukh and others
explain shemiras hamiqdash (Rambam asei #22, lav #67) similarly. Quoting
Seifar haMitzvos quoting the Mechilta, "ve'ino domeh palterin sheyeish
alav shomerim, lepalterei she'ein alav shomeim".

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Brains to the lazy
mi...@aishdas.org        are like a torch to the blind --
http://www.aishdas.org   a useless burden.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                 - Bechinas haOlam

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 01:35:55PM -0700, saul newman via Avodah wrote:
: http://forward.com/news/344480/w
: atch-ultra-orthodox-rip-up-prayer-book-to-protest-western-wall-bat-mitzva
: h
: 
: the commentors here have a fairly viscious back and forth.  but regardless
: of the propriety of ripping up the WoW's books from a social standpoint ,
: isn't it clear halachically that the prayer books have no kedusha ...

What are they? Modified sedurim, or traditional sedurim WoW happen to own?

If an apiqoreis writes a seifer Torah, it has no qedushah. But if an
apiqoreis buys a kosher seifer Torah, does it lose its qedushah?

And what if it's not an apiqoreis, but a tinoq shenishba (many of the WoW
are not from O homes) or a mumar letei'avon (honestly mislefd by a desire
for egalitarianism)? Or even a mumar lehach'is, but on a din derabbanan?
Even granted that WoW are sinning (and I fear I will get flack from some
long-time members for assuming as much) not every sin is heresy.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It's never too late
mi...@aishdas.org        to become the person
http://www.aishdas.org   you might have been.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                      - George Eliot

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:41 PM, saul newman via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> Overriding the switch is against American law and so prohibited by dina
> demalchuta.
>
> ---overriding what switch is this referring to?
>

Presumably the switch that makes the dishwasher cut off when the door is
opened. But I find this surprising: I understand such a law applying to
people *selling* dishwashers, but is it really illegal to modify an
appliance which is your property and you use in your own home?
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