Volume 32: Number 84
Tue, 13 May 2014
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Chana Luntz
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 21:50:18 +0100
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The O Therapist and the non taharas mishpacha
RAM writes:
>When I first read this assertion that "it is not unusual for couples today
to commit adultery", my first interpretation was that he was referring to
ALL couples. But now that I have worked >through the logic, I see that he
may have been referring only to those couples who don't keep hilchos nida.
>But that does not really quell my anger. Even if he feels that a person who
violates nida has a bechira-point which allows him to violate adultery as
well, does Rav Sternbuch really think that >he would do the adultery JUST AS
OFTEN as violating nida?
You don't need to do the adultery just as often as violating the nida. Once
the woman commits adultery once, she is then forbidden to her husband - so
that having relations would then involve two prohibitions, that of nidah and
that of having relations with her husband. And while nidah can be fixed
next time by going to mikvah, this one can never be fixed, except by
divorce. So if by preventing marital discord one can prevent the woman
committing adultery, then you are halving the number of violations each time
they have relations (not to mention the essential violation of the
adulterous relationship itself).
So you don't need:
>In other words, Rav Sternbuch seems to feel the following: If this couple
would get their marital discord resolved, then they would violate nida a
certain number of times during a given >duration; But if the therapy would
be withheld, and their discord would continue, then the sum total of nida
violations and adultery violations would be just as many.
Because, so long as adultery (by the woman) occurred once, and it does not
need to occur more than once, then every other nida violation would also be
a consequence of adultery violation. If adultery was prevented, then the
number of issurim would not double.
>If that is indeed what Rav Sternbuch thinks, then I'd love to know where he
thinks people find these partners for their adultery. I know that the morals
of the non-frum world are supposedly >looser than ours, but there certain
practical considerations that Rav Sternbuch seems to be ignoring.
Prostitutes aren't so cheap, and friends aren't so easy. I cannot imagine a
case where >such a person would be having sexual relations just as often
without therapy as with it. Unless he already had a harem of some sort. And
even then.
Well, I don't know either, but the newspapers, whenever they quote figures,
tend to quote figures like:
>It's difficult to say how common adultery is, since many people will lie
about their own experiences.
>The most recent studies conducted in America have reported that around 15
per cent of wives and 25 per cent of husbands have had extramarital affairs.
>However, various surveys conducted in Western countries have suggested that
perhaps 40 per cent of married people may have had adulterous sex. There
seems to be general agreement that it's >more common for husbands to stray
than wives - though in the 21st Century, wives appear to be 'catching up' a
bit.
>Read more:
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex-and-relationships/facts/adultery.ht
m#ixzz31Qf
1YhUR
I have seen similar figures in the UK Times as well - although without
paying I cannot search their online archives to find them. I am not quite
sure where these people who apparently all commit adultery find their
partners, but certainly Rav Shternbach does not seem to be out of line with
what the secular non Jewish newspapers report in understanding that adultery
is not uncommon. I have also seen reports that suggest that motivations
between men and women in committing adultery are statistically different,
with women more likely to commit adultery, when they do so, as a way of
"hitting back" at the husband for his lack of attentiveness (something that
is going to be made more likely by marital discord), whereas men are more
likely to be unfaithful because they are physically attracted to their
mistress. Whether those reports reflect accurately what goes on in the real
world is very hard to know, but in this Rav Shternbach does seem to me to be
reflecting the best scientific evidence that appears to be available
regarding such behaviour amongst the general population.
>Akiva Miller
Regards
Chana
Go to top.
Message: 2
From: Joe Slater
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 11:51:02 +1000
Subject: Re: [Avodah] The O Therapist and the Suicidally Depressed Gay
I think the "adultery" Rav Eidensohn is talking about (in his report on the
discussion he had with Rav Sternbuch) is the outcome of a marriage
break-up: if this non-frum couple are divorced, is it likely that they will
use a Get? Will the non-frum husband subsequently refrain from a
relationship with divorcees who lack a Get? I don't think he can be so
concerned about a couple engaging in *what they recognise as* adultery as
he is about the halachic adultery that almost inevitably occurs when a
married couple mistakenly thinks that they are divorced according to
halacha. That's a very real concern, and we have no need to appeal to any
snif l'heter.
Joe Slater
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20140512/1546186d/attachment-0001.htm>
Go to top.
Message: 3
From: Kenneth Miller
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 01:55:57 GMT
Subject: [Avodah] e: silk-screened sifrei torah (STAM) and megillot
R' Zev Sero wrote:
> In netilas yodayim we are careful to ensure that the water comes
> mikoach gavra and not in some other way. When you open the tap,
> we observe that the first rush of water is coming mikoach gavra,
> but the following water is not.
A long time ago, I heard of this procedure for netilas yadayim for bread,
but even then it was b'dieved at best. Do you know of poskim who allow it
l'chatchilah?
Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it.
http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2
Go to top.
Message: 4
From: Kenneth Miller
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 02:02:56 GMT
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Women wearing Tefillin
R' David Cohen wrote:
> But in a time when there is no Beis haMikdash but also no
> persecution, these fasts are dependent on whether the community
> wants to fast or not.
>
> The custom of your community and mine, which is reflected in the
> Shulchan Aruch, is that healthy women who are not pregnant or
> nursing do fast. But if an entire community (and I would think
> that most chassidic communities meet the definition of
> "community" in a stronger sense than many others do) have a
> custom according to which women, as a collective, did not accept
> to fast on these days, I would think that to be legitimate.
I have always understood these fasts to be straightforward halachos of the
d'Rabanan level, for which the only heterim are of the regular "lo gazru
rabanan" type, such as for health reasons. I never before heard it being
contingent on persecution and/or community custom. Can you show me where to
find this? Thanks.
Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
The #1 Worst Carb Ever?
Click to Learn #1 Carb that Kills Your Blood Sugar (Don't Eat This!)
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/53702c0b714142c0b519est02vuc
Go to top.
Message: 5
From: Zev Sero
Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 23:36:36 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] [Areivim] cannabis
On 11/05/2014 11:23 PM, Lisa Liel wrote:
> And I guess if I could track down where Aryeh Kaplan suggested it, he'd have given sources.
The obvious place to look was _The Living Torah_. After giving a well-
sourced translation as sweet calamus (Acoras calamus), and noting that
"other sources apparently indicate" (i.e. he hasn't actually seen them)
that it was Cympopogan martini, he adds: "On the basis of cognate
pronunciation and Septuagint readings, some identify ''Keneh bosem''
with the English and greek cannabis, the hemp plant." So, no source,
just an unidentified "some", and apparently with no real basis.
--
Zev Sero Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable
z...@sero.name from malice.
- Eric Raymond
Go to top.
Message: 6
From: Akiva Blum
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 16:38:36 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] 5 iyar, chu'l
> From: On Behalf Of Harry Maryles
> Sent: Wednesday, 07 May, 2014 6:39 PM
> The Meiri in the last chapter in Pesachim tells us that an individual or
> community is overtaken by a Tzarah (disaster of any kind or any source)
> and is miraculously delivered form it -- then there is a Mitzvah to
> recite Hallel at the time of the redemption and on its anniversary each
> year.
Would you mind posting a reference to this Meiri, please. I can't seem to
find it.
Akiva
Go to top.
Message: 7
From: Harry Maryles
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 06:46:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Avodah] 5 iyar, chu'l
I did not see the Meiri directly. RAS mentioned it in his book, LOTH-LOTM
in his chapter on saying Hallel on YhA. He did not cite the exact location
of this Meiri.
HM
?
Want Emes and Emunah in your life?
Try this: http://haemtza.blogspot.com/
On Monday, May 12, 2014 8:38 AM, Akiva Blum <yda...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: avodah-boun...@lists.aishdas.org [mailto:avodah-
>> boun...@lists.aishdas.org] On Behalf Of Harry Maryles
>> Sent: Wednesday, 07 May, 2014 6:39 PM
>
>>
>>
>> The Meiri in the last chapter in Pesachim tells us that an individual or
>> community is overtaken by a Tzarah (disaster of any kind or any source)
>> and is miraculously delivered form it -- then there is a Mitzvah to
>> recite Hallel at the time of the redemption and on its anniversary each
>> year.
>
>Would you mind posting a reference to this Meiri, please. I can't seem to
>find it.
>
>Akiva
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20140512/7244fe92/attachment-0001.htm>
Go to top.
Message: 8
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 11:35:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] cannabis
On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 11:36:36PM -0400, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
:> And I guess if I could track down where Aryeh Kaplan suggested it,
:> he'd have given sources.
:
: The obvious place to look was _The Living Torah_. After giving a well-
: sourced translation as sweet calamus (Acoras calamus), and noting that
: "other sources apparently indicate" (i.e. he hasn't actually seen them)
: that it was Cympopogan martini, he adds: "On the basis of cognate
: pronunciation and Septuagint readings, some identify "Keneh bosem"
: with the English and greek cannabis, the hemp plant." So, no source,
: just an unidentified "some", and apparently with no real basis.
Sourcing the Septuagint and pointing to cognates isn't "real basis"?
"Qanabus" is the term in Chazal's Hebrew for hemp. (Kelaim 2:5, aside from
a number of times in shas) So the Greek in question is OLD. In Akkadian,
hemb is qunnabtu, so it's not insane to think in Biblical Hebrew as
well. Then it becomes a question of whether "qanabus" is indeed "qeni
bosem", or there were two plants with similar names.
As for maale ashan, qunabbu means "a way to produce smoke" and is used
as a name for cannabus in Assyrian.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 27th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 3 weeks and 6 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Yesod sheb'Netzach: When does domination or
Fax: (270) 514-1507 taking control result in relationship?
Go to top.
Message: 9
From: Ben Waxman
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 18:20:20 +0200
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Women wearing Tefillin
At this point in time, they aren't. Both the Rambam and Shulhan Aruch
pasken that we keep these fasts until the Messianic era (or until the
Beit HaMiqdash is built, whichever comes first).
Ben
On 5/12/2014 4:02 AM, Kenneth Miller via Avodah wrote:
> I have always understood these fasts to be straightforward halachos of
> the d'Rabanan level, for which the only heterim are of the regular "lo
> gazru rabanan" type, such as for health reasons. I never before heard
> it being contingent on persecution and/or community custom. Can you
> show me where to find this? Thanks.
Go to top.
Message: 10
From: Zev Sero
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 10:16:51 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] silk-screened sifrei torah (STAM) and megillot
On 11/05/2014 9:55 PM, Kenneth Miller via Avodah wrote:
> R' Zev Sero wrote:
>> In netilas yodayim we are careful to ensure that the water comes
>> mikoach gavra and not in some other way. When you open the tap,
>> we observe that the first rush of water is coming mikoach gavra,
>> but the following water is not.
> A long time ago, I heard of this procedure for netilas yadayim for
> bread, but even then it was b'dieved at best. Do you know of poskim
> who allow it l'chatchilah?
I'm not aware of anyone who *doesn't* allow it lechatchila.
--
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name
Go to top.
Message: 11
From: Samuel Svarc
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 15:10:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] silk-screened sifrei torah (STAM) and megillot
On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
> On 05/10/2014 11:52 PM, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
>
>> The problem isn't that it's
>> the wrong form of koach gavra, it's that koach gavra is irrelevant. There
>> is no requirement of koach gavra. There's a requirement for kesivah, and
>> that is what's lacking.
>>
>
> Kesiva is not necessarily lacking. You should read up on Rabbi Abadi's
> process.
OK. Where did you read up on it? The website referenced doesn't give any
halachic details beyond that R' Abadi said it's fine, in fact the link "The
Halacha..." on the left side doesn't lead anywhere.
Do you have a teshuvah written by R' Abadi in which he explains why it fine?
KT,
MSS
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20140512/53cbe5fa/attachment-0001.htm>
Go to top.
Message: 12
From: Samuel Svarc
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 14:57:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] silk-screened sifrei torah (STAM) and megillot
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Zev Sero via Avodah
<avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
> On 11/05/2014 9:55 PM, Kenneth Miller via Avodah wrote:
>> A long time ago, I heard of this procedure for netilas yadayim for
>> bread, but even then it was b'dieved at best. Do you know of poskim
>> who allow it l'chatchilah?
> I'm not aware of anyone who *doesn't* allow it lechatchila.
On of my poskim in Lakewood (I'll be glad to give his name off-list),
when I asked regarding eating in an apartment in Brooklyn that I had
just rented and therefore lacked a cup with which to wash from, at first
refused to answer the question, repeatedly stating that I should get
a cup, and finally when he did answer repeated that it was wrong to do
this when a cup can be easily found.
KT,
MSS
Go to top.
Message: 13
From: Zev Sero
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 15:03:20 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] silk-screened sifrei torah (STAM) and megillot
On 12/05/2014 2:57 PM, Samuel Svarc wrote:
> On of my poskim in Lakewood (I'll be glad to give his name off-list),
Please do.
> when I asked regarding eating in an apartment in Brooklyn that I had
> just rented and therefore lacked a cup with which to wash from, at
> first refused to answer the question, repeatedly stating that I
> should get a cup, and finally when he did answer repeated that it was
> wrong to do this when a cup can be easily found.
Weird. Any idea what his sevara could be? Could it be merely that
"netila" should be from a "natla", a keli that can be picked up with
the hands?
--
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name
Go to top.
Message: 14
From: Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 16:40:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] silk-screened sifrei torah (STAM) and megillot
On 05/12/2014 03:10 PM, Samuel Svarc via Avodah wrote:
> . Where did you read up on it? The website referenced doesn't give
> any halachic details beyond that R' Abadi said it's fine, in fact the
> link "The Halacha..." on the left side doesn't lead anywhere.
> Do you have a teshuvah written by R' Abadi in which he explains why it
> fine?
There was an article in The Journal of Halacha and Contemporary Society
a few years ago. Other sources are referenced at
<http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/17907/silk-screened-sifr
ei-torah>.
KT,
YGB
Go to top.
Message: 15
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 13:47:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Tosafos - Bava Kama 59b/60a
On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 03:15:45PM -0400, Sholom Simon wrote:
: My son's gemara shiur sees a stira between the last Tosafos on Bava
: Kama 59b (which seems to say, "and don't think an answer is xyz", and
: the first Tosafos on 60a (which seems to assume xyz is the answer).
The cop-out answer would be that the two were written by different
Baalei Tosafos.
Which got me to a slightly stronger answer: 59b is a comment on Rashi,
the dibur hamaskhil ("babyis lo ba'ina le'itztanu'ei minakh") is from
Rashi d"h "aval lechatzeir hashutfin". But 60 opens with a d"h quoting
the gemara "laqach bayis bechatzeir acheres" and so presumably the
"peirush" is their own. So, it could be Tosafos on 59b are explaining
rashi despite (as we know from 60a) disagreeing with him.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 28th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 4 weeks in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Malchus sheb'Netzach: What role does
Fax: (270) 514-1507 domination or taking control play in building brotherhood?
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
------------------------------
**************************************
Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
avodah@lists.aishdas.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
avodah-request@lists.aishdas.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."
A list of common acronyms is available at
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/acronyms.cgi
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)