Avodah Mailing List

Volume 27: Number 113

Thu, 06 May 2010

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 08:58:37 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Dowries for marriage


On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 05:22:30PM -0400, Yosef Skolnick wrote:
: SA Even Haezer Siman 2 Seif 1 Ramah (the whole thing) and Chelkat michokek
: to answer the stirah.
: http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14398&;st=&pgnum=12

Am I to understand from the Ramah that the whole subject of dowry is
based upon securing financial support? The question is yatzliach vs
"hamamon she'adam loqeiach im ishtoeino mamon shel yosher". Or am I
reading too much in?

His access to nichsei tzon barzel is conditional on accepting acharyus
to support her.

In which case, it would seem that a future kollelnik would have no
grounds for asking for a dowry altogether. And really shouldn't (I said
"shouldn't", not "couldn't") claim the money until after he is done
being supported by his in-laws and/or wife.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 37th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        5 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Gevurah sheb'Yesod: When does reliability
Fax: (270) 514-1507               require one to be strict with another?



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Message: 2
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 09:36:59 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Translating the word Inyan


On Sun, May 02, 2010 at 12:05:04PM -0400, Zvi Lampel wrote:
: I've often been frustrated trying to translate the word "inyan" into 
: English. The usual translations, "matter" or "subject" or even 
: "concern" often sound stiff in English and do not get across the real 
: Hebrew meaning and feel...

I agree about feel/connotation, but I think "concern" accurately
reflects the Hebrew meaning. An inyan can be me'anyein, so the notion of
intellection interest appears to be relevent.

The Brown-Driver-Briggs "Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old
Testamant" puts inyan under the shoresh /ayin-nun-hei/ (translation II,
bottom pg 775 <http://books.google.com/books?id=u0ATAAAAYAAJ&;pg=PA775>),
to be ocupied or busines with. They say it's a possible Armaic loan-word,
and I'm sure I I could read Syriac and Arabic, I'd be convinced. They
cite pesuqim (and Ben Sirach) as well. 

...
: PS: I'm using Ariel font and typing two single-quotation marks rather 
: than double-quotation marks, hoping they don't come across as question 
: marks. If they do, I would appreciate advice.

The font is irrelevent, since the digest is sent in plain text -- no font,
and the only formatting is spacing and carriage returns. The problem
with double quotes is that your emailer turns the vertical " into a true
open or close quote, which aren't in the standard text character set
(ASCII). If I ever figure out how to switch to cp1255 (a/k/a win-1255,
a/k/a enhanced iso8859-8) to take care of the Hebrew problem, the open
and close quotes are in that character set, and all would be well.

Now, the same could have been true of the vertical single quote ' --
that your emailer would have converted it to an open or close single
quote. It didn't, I can't explain why not.

In any case, in this reply I converted the pair of single quotes to
double quotes, as my emailer (mutt) is too stupid to do things to my
text that I don't explicitly ask it to do.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 37th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        5 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Gevurah sheb'Yesod: When does reliability
Fax: (270) 514-1507               require one to be strict with another?



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Message: 3
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 09:54:34 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Rav Shimon Schwab on how Jewish women should


On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 09:41:43AM +0100, Chana Luntz wrote:
: RYL quotes R' Shimon Schwarb as saying:
:>   In general, from Yeshayahu's rebuke of Jewish women's flaunting of
:> their clothing, jewelry, and beauty enhancements, it is quite clear
:> that such mode of behavior is highly unbecoming a Jewish woman...

: I do have to say that I find RSS's approach somewhat puzzling in the light
: of Chazal though. One of the ten takanos of Ezra listed in Baba Kama 82a was
: that peddlers should go from city to city for the sake of women's adornments
...

Li nir'eh:
Kan bachutz, kan beinah uvein ishahh.

Vehara'ayah, Yeshaiahu complains about "flaunting". OTOH, the mirrors
used to beautify the women of dor hamidbar were made into the kiyor.

(Speaking of my frustrations with the Hebrew issue...)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha



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Message: 4
From: Eli Turkel <elitur...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 13:21:30 +0300
Subject:
[Avodah] women davening and learning


My sister told me she was taught in a shiur that women should not say
Tachanun - what is the source for this?

Also from the daily halacha

"Generally women should not say the "Tikkun Lay'l Shavuos". However,
some say that a woman who counted all the days of Sefiras Ha'omer may
learn the portions of the Tikkun which are from Tanach. S'U Rav Poalim
1SY:9, Kaf Hachaim 106:8"

what difference does it make if the woman counted sefirat hamoer
Obviously this goes according the opinions that wome can't learn even
on their own anything besides Tanach
Note the sources are sefardi sources
-- 
Eli Turkel



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Message: 5
From: "Prof. Levine" <llev...@stevens.edu>
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 06:09:02 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Rav Shimon Schwab on how Jewish women should dress


At 05:58 AM 5/6/2010, Chana Luntz wrote:


>I do have to say that I find RSS's approach somewhat puzzling in the light
>of Chazal though. One of the ten takanos of Ezra listed in Baba Kama 82a was
>that peddlers should go from city to city for the sake of women's adornments
>(tachshitei nashim, which Rashi explains as besamim - ie perfumes and
>cosmetics).  The gemora explains on Baba Basra 22a that this was so that
>such adornments would be readily available to the Bnos Yisroel, and on Baba
>Kama 82b that this was so that they not become repulsive to their husbands.
>And indeed, one of the financial obligations of a husband enumerated in the
>Mishna in Kesubos (66b) was to set aside money for "her basket".  And what,
>the gemora asks further on daf 66b - is her basket?  - Besamim!- ie perfumes
>and cosmetics.  And further, it would seem from Kesuvos 48a that the Beis
>Din is empowered, in the absence of a husband, to go down onto his property
>in order to provide sustenance for his wife, such sustenance to include a
>required provision for adornments  (tachshitim - again Rashi, besamim)
>because it can be assumed that he would not be happy to have his wife become
>repulsive.  And should a woman swear a neder that she will refuse to adorn
>herself, and if she did adorn herself, she should be forbidden to her
>husband, the Chachamim provided that she should be divorced immediately and
>given her kesuba, because it could not be expected that in fact she should
>not adorn herself because then she will be called repulsive (Kesubos 71(b)).
<snip>

I really see nothing puzzling regarding what Rav Schwab wrote and all 
of the sources you have quoted regarding how married women should 
dress. Rav A. Miller often said, "A woman should dress for her 
husband, not for others."  He meant that the finery should be 
reserved for the home. Thus all of these adornments are to be worn in 
the home for the husband, not in public.

This means that a woman should look her best when she is at home with 
her husband, not when she goes out in public. However, today, we 
often see just the opposite. Women dress up when they go out, and 
wear clothing at home that they would never let themselves be seen in 
when they go out.

YL
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Message: 6
From: "Prof. Levine" <llev...@stevens.edu>
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 06:21:24 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Rav Shimon Schwab on how Jewish women should dress


At 05:58 AM 5/6/2010, David Riceman wrote:

>RYL, citing RSS:
> > In general, from Yeshayahu's rebuke of Jewish women's flaunting of
> > their clothing, jewelry, and beauty enhancements, it is quite clear
> > that such mode of behavior is highly unbecoming a Jewish woman. A
> > Jewish woman should present herself not merely as a "woman," but
> > rather, as a human being with a tzelem Elokim, who belongs to the
> > Jewish nation, and is possessed of a neshamah that is holy...
>
> > Unfortunately, in our times, showy dressing, and cosmetic and beauty
> > enhancement have become normal and acceptable behavior. Even very
> > "frum" girls and women dress and beautify themselves in a way that is
> > designed to attract attention to themselves as women...
>
>It was not a new phenomenon, it was a practice known to Hazal: One of
>Ezra's takkanos was permitting perfumiers free access to Jewish towns,
>and one of the reactions to Hurban HaBayis was restrictions on the
>wearing of jewelry. From the first we can deduce that, contra RSS
>(and contra my own allergic reactions), perfumes are a positive thing,
>and from the second we can deduce something analogous about jewelry.
>
>David Riceman

The new phenomenon that Rav Schwab is talking about is that women 
"flaunt" "their clothing, jewelry, and beauty enhancements" in 
public. As I wrote in response to Chana Luntz's post, Rav Schwab is 
telling us that all of these beauty enhancements are to be used for a 
woman's husband, and should not be for public display.

This does not mean that a woman should not be presentable in public. 
However, she should make herself especially beautiful for her 
husband. And again, we often see just the opposite. Some women are 
dressed to the hilt in public and wear frumpy clothing when at home.

YL
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Message: 7
From: Eli Turkel <elitur...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 13:33:44 +0300
Subject:
[Avodah] how women should dress


>   Once a Jewish woman is aware of her greatness, of her holiness, of
> what she really is, she does not emphasize and flaunt her
> femininity.  Although we have many references to women's beauty in
> the Torah in connection with the Matriarchs, Sara, Rivka, and Rachel,
> such beauty always corresponded to and complemented their inner beauty.

I do have to say that I find RSS's approach somewhat puzzling in the light
of Chazal though. >>

To add to Chana's questions we have the famous story of Rabbi Akiva
giving his wife a
"city of gold" which was obvioulsy a very expensive ornament
Futhermore everal of the mishnahs of the sixth chapter of tractate
Shabbat enumerate various articles, among them apparel, ornaments, and
jewelry, with which it is permissible for women to go out into the
public domain on Shabbat, and others with which it is not. The opening
mishnah of the chapter lists, among other things, a "city of gold" as
one of the objects with which a woman may not go out to the public
domain.  The mishnaic tractate Eduyot (2,7) brings down in the name of
Rabbi Eliezer a differing opinion on the matter. "Three things did
they say before Rabbi Akiva, two in the name of Rabbi Eliezer...A
woman may go out with a city of gold". Three opinions on the issue
under discussion are found in the tosefta; those of Rabbi Meir, of the
Sages, and Rabbi Eliezer. From the tosefta we learn that the anonymous
view posited in tractate Shabbat is that of the Sages: "A woman should
not go out wearing a city of gold, and if she went out, she is liable
for a sin-offering, the words of Rabbi Meir. And Sages say, She should
not go out, but if she did go out she is exempt. Rabbi Eliezer says, A
woman goes out with a city of gold..." (Tosefta Shabbat 4,6).

We are talking here about wearing these on shabbat and there is no
hint that it is not
appropriate during the week because of tzniut. True there was a later
gezera but that
was because of the tragedies that fell to the Jews of that time. I
dont believe this was meant for all future generations

-- 
Eli Turkel



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Message: 8
From: Michael Poppers <MPopp...@kayescholer.com>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 07:41:59 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Rav Shimon Schwab on how Jewish women should



In Avodah V27#112, RnCL wrote:
> I do have to say that I find RSS's approach somewhat puzzling in the
light
of Chazal though. One of the ten takanos of Ezra listed in Baba Kama 82a
was
that peddlers should go from city to city for the sake of women's
adornments
(tachshitei nashim, which Rashi explains as besamim - ie perfumes and
cosmetics).  The gemora explains on Baba Basra 22a that this was so that
such adornments would be readily available to the Bnos Yisroel, and on Baba
Kama 82b that this was so that they not become repulsive to their
husbands.... <
RYL sh'l'y't'a' didn't fully quote RSS z'l'.  He should now quote the
paragraph(s) regarding Jewish ladies and their husbands ;-).  Thanks.

All the best from
--Michael Poppers via RIM pager
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Message: 9
From: "Prof. Levine" <llev...@stevens.edu>
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 07:54:57 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Rav Shimon Schwab on how Jewish women should


At 07:41 AM 5/6/2010, Michael Poppers wrote:
>RYL sh'l'y't'a' didn't fully quote RSS z'l'. He should now quote the 
>paragraph(s) regarding Jewish ladies and their husbands ;-). Thanks.

Indeed, I should have. Rav Schwab also wrote the following about this issue. YL

"Unquestionably, women's beauty certainly has its place. Jewish women 
are encouraged to make themselves attractive to their husbands. The 
references to women's perfumes and cosmetics in the Mishnah or Gemara 
are made in connection with their use for the purpose of making women 
attractive to their husbands. Unfortunately, the opposite has become 
true. A woman may neglect herself when she is at home alone with her 
husband, but when she goes out, she dresses up and beautifies 
herself. This whole idea -that a woman enhances her beauty for the 
outside world, but neglects it when she is alone with their husband 
is wrong; it is a non-Jewish custom, and it probably had its roots in 
the time of Yeshayahu. For only he, and no other navi, refers to 
women's beauty enhancements in such great detail."

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Message: 10
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 10:50:47 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Rav Shimon Schwab on how Jewish women should


On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 06:21:24AM -0400, Prof. Levine wrote:
: The new phenomenon that Rav Schwab is talking about is that women 
: "flaunt" "their clothing, jewelry, and beauty enhancements" in 
: public...

Even that wasn't so new in RSS's day. Doesn't the Gra in his Igeres
tell his wife not to let their daughter attend shul, "because she'll see
beautiful clothes there, become jealous and talk about it at home. This
will lead to LH..."

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha



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Message: 11
From: "SBA" <s...@sba2.com>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 00:47:27 +1000
Subject:
[Avodah] Avodah] Rav Shimon Schwab on how Jewish women should


From: "Chana Luntz" 
RYL quotes R' Shimon Schwarb as saying:
>   In general, from Yeshayahu's rebuke of Jewish women's flaunting of 
> their clothing, jewelry, and beauty enhancements, it is quite clear 
> that such mode of behavior is highly unbecoming a Jewish woman. 

I do have to say that I find RSS's approach somewhat puzzling in the light
of Chazal though. One of the ten takanos of Ezra listed in Baba Kama 82a was
that peddlers should go from city to city for the sake of women's adornments
(tachshitei nashim, which Rashi explains as besamim - ie perfumes and
cosmetics).  The gemora explains on Baba Basra 22a that this was so that
such adornments would be readily available to the Bnos Yisroel, and on Baba
Kama 82b that this was so that they not become repulsive to their husbands.
>>

Probably RSS would also have no problem with women making themselves
attractive to their husbands - at home. But doing so in public where there
other males brings on the rebuke of Yeshayahu.

Talking of which, a puzzling Rashi in Shmos 31:18 dh Kechaloso: "Ma kallah
miskashetes b-24 kishutin - hen ho'amurim besefer Yeshaya [3: 18-23]"

However when you look it up, you'll find that this is the same Yeshayahu
that RSS refers to and the Navi there is warning the Bnos Yisroel of
terrible punishments for outfitting themselves with these 24 kishutin.
Nowhere is there any mention of this being OK and the standard for a kallah.

Yelamdeinu raboseinu...

SBA




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Message: 12
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 12:49:48 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] How does criminal law function in a Torah state


On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 02:53:56PM -0400, Rich, Joel wrote:
: The King (and according to R' Kook IIUC any authority the people
: designate for leadership) has the responsibility for civil order
: and would set up a system designed to ensure its maintenance (makin
: vonshin...)

As RET already noted, this gets back to our discussion of the Ran's
position about the role of melekh. And our standing disagreement
about whether the king's power to order society is in one-off casewise
decisions, or has the power to set an ongoing policy.

Also, what you attibute to the king (or by R' Kook's extension the
"malkhus" whether or not it resides in a monarch) was held by the 7
tuv'ei ha'ir. The 7TH would even have malshinim etc... put to death
as needed.
It's a power that comes from autonomy, even without any sovereignty.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:26:05AM +0300, Eli Turkel wrote:
: As I have pointed out several times it is far from clear that monetary
: laws could run according to SA. Some examples are transfer of funds by
: wire and hence all inter-bank transfers. There is no kinyan and in many
: cases it is done completely by computer without any human intervention. If
: one cannot make a kinyan on davar shelo ba le-olam then one cannot have
: long term planning and building a factory or machine that takes a long
: time and one needs to stabilize the price. Most stock market techniques
: are illegal. etc....

Except that this too is also in the SA and moreso in the Rama (CM Rama
68:1, 74:7; SA&Rama 104:2, Rama 154:18, 207:15, 259:7, 356:7 [where yi'ush
veshinui aren't enough to permit a ganav to retain the item, because DDD
means there was no qinyan], 369:6,8.) that unless a party says otherwise,
we assume CM occurs with the implicit acceptance of the norms of the
business community. Thus, those standards are binding even many of the
times that they're at odds with spelled out rules of CM -- in various
places the Rama says this is because hodaas baal din or hefqer BD hefqer.

This excludes estate law, since the yoreshim do not enter an agreement,
and thus we can't make assumptions about their intent conforming to
norms. I'm sure there are more cases.

See the teshuvah of the Rashba (6:254) which the BY quotes at length at
the end of siman 26.

This is one of the uses of dina demalkhusa dina. Not the DDD we usually
discuss,a homonym.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 37th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        5 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Gevurah sheb'Yesod: When does reliability
Fax: (270) 514-1507               require one to be strict with another?



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Message: 13
From: "Beth & David Cohen" <bdcohen...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 14:17:46 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] More on what constitutes chilul hashem


"This whole idea that
breaking the law is a chilul hashem has no foundation.  The notion
that one must obey the law simply because it is the law is abhorrent,
and the fact that Germans believe it and Americans don't explains a
lot about those nations' recent history.
Zev Sero

In the good old USA,  if one truly believes that a particular law is unjust
or unfair, one has recourse through the court system. But our theoretical
Jew is not interested in any due process other than his own --- he doesn't
attempt to conform with the legal requirements (e.g. get the permit), or
appealing if he is wrongfully prevented from doing what he believes is
correct. He won't do so, because to him these annoying regulations are only
for yenem, not for those of us who only answer to a higher authority. It's
ok to use the system (food stamps, etc.) if it suits him and ignore when it
suits him.

In some circumstances, it is the breaking of the law that creates a chilul
Hashem (e.g. child abuse by those decked out in full charedi
accouterments) . In other circumstances it's not the breaking of the law
that's a chilul Hashem, but the attitude towards the law and its enforcement
that creates it.

David I. Cohen
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Message: 14
From: "Prof. Levine" <llev...@stevens.edu>
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 12:22:59 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] No Smokers for My Daughters


Please see the article at 
http://www.jewishmediaresources.com/1366/no-smokers-for-my-daughters

I find it strange that Jonathan Rosenblum does not mention the psak 
titled "The Prohibition of Smoking in Halacha" that is 
at  http://www.rabbis.org/pdfs/Prohibition_Smoking.pdf   In light of 
this, how can one call any young person who takes up smoking a Ben Torah?

When I emailed Rosenblum pointing this out, he replied, "That is not 
a universally subscribed to opinion. I did not want to get into it." 
I asked him for the names of those who disagreed with the RCA 
opinion, but I have not heard back from him. Does anyone know of a 
poseik who permits smoking today in light of what we know of the 
health risks of this habit?

YL



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Message: 15
From: Harry Maryles <hmary...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 08:28:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Rav Shimon Schwab on how Jewish women should


--- On Thu, 5/6/10, Prof. Levine <llev...@stevens.edu> wrote:


The new phenomenon that Rav Schwab is talking about is that women "flaunt"
"their clothing, jewelry, and beauty enhancements" in public. As I wrote in
response to Chana Luntz's post, Rav Schwab is telling us that all of these
beauty enhancements are to be used for a woman's husband, and should not be
for public display.

This does not mean that a woman should not be presentable in public.
However, she should make herself especially beautiful for her husband. And
again, we often see just the opposite. Some women are dressed to the hilt
in public and wear frumpy clothing when at home.
----------------------------------------------------------
?
It seems like common sense to me.
?
Women are not supposed to make themselves ugly in public. Nor should they make themselves provocatively attractive. There is such a thing as a happy medium.
?
Of course in the privacy of the home women should definiteley make themselves as attactive as they can to their husbands. 
?
But this does not mean they must look frumpy in public. There are clothes
that make women look?nice and yet quite Tzniusdik - without being
provocative. That should be the standard. 
?
One must never allow oneself to look dowdy or frumpy. This is not the face
we should be showing in public. As long as Erva is not violated - Tznius is
where we begin. How that is defined depends on the community in which?one
lives. In America,?it means that?being overly concerned with Tznius to the
point of looking frumpy is a disservice to the Am Bechira and in my view -
perhaps even a Chilul HaShem. One should do the best they can within the
limits of Halacha. 
?
HM

Want Emes and Emunah in your life? 

Try this: http://haemtza.blogspot.com/




      
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Message: 16
From: Joshua Meisner <jmeis...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 11:40:26 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Avodah] Rav Shimon Schwab on how Jewish women


On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:47 AM, SBA <s...@sba2.com> wrote:

>
> Talking of which, a puzzling Rashi in Shmos 31:18 dh Kechaloso: "Ma kallah
> miskashetes b-24 kishutin - hen ho'amurim besefer Yeshaya [3: 18-23]"
>
> However when you look it up, you'll find that this is the same Yeshayahu
> that RSS refers to and the Navi there is warning the Bnos Yisroel of
> terrible punishments for outfitting themselves with these 24 kishutin.
> Nowhere is there any mention of this being OK and the standard for a
> kallah.
>

The passuk doesn't say that their sin was the wearing of these 24 kishutin,
only that the punishment would be manifested through the loss of the
kishutin.  The sins are located in passuk 16, and don't have to do so much
with what they wear as what they do when they're wearing it.


Joshua Meisner
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Message: 17
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 16:46:06 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] More on What Constitutes Chillul Hashem?


On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 03:59:26PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
: This begs the question.  "Negative" is a subjective term; it depends in
: whose mind something is negative...

Chilul Hashem would depend on what's negative in the eye of the
observers in question, no?

"Kol sheruach haberios nochah heimenu, 'Ruach' haMaqom nochah
heimenu." (R' Chaninah ben Dosa, Avos 3:10) Note also that RCbD doesn't
say ruach Yisrael or even ruach haadam, but the clearly universal
"berios".

In Bereishis Rabba 39:4 (cited by RYBS back in v2n59, Nov '98), Avraham
avinu hesitates to follow the command of "lekh lekha" because the nachriim
will fault his kibud av if he goes and it would be a chillul Hashem. HQBH
lets Terach die, then Avraham goes. Afterward, Hashem explains to him
the whole concept of Torah outranking kibud av.

TGhere are three types of chillul Hashem:
1- Someone who violates a yeihareig ve'al ya'avor rather than dying
   (aveirah be'oneis)
2- Someone who violates bemeizid
3- With an adam chashuv who others see as representing the Torah, who
   does something even if mutar that causes shayomru hagoyim ein Torah
   leYisrael, ch"v.

We're discussing the limits of #3. I do not hear in RZS's words where he
thinks this category applies altogether.

...
: It gets worse when the privileged frame of reference isn't even a
: real goy, but rather an imagined goy who so worships the law that he
: despises anyone who would dare to break it...

Or even if he doesn't, he still looks down at people who allege to be
religious but don't follow the law. People (perhaps more often than not)
judge others on a much higher standard than they judge themselves.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 37th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org        5 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Gevurah sheb'Yesod: When does reliability
Fax: (270) 514-1507               require one to be strict with another?


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