Avodah Mailing List

Volume 25: Number 355

Wed, 08 Oct 2008

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: "Michael Makovi" <mikewindd...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 08:55:27 +0200
Re: [Avodah] tora questions

> 3] is there an issur to write a sefer for a non-O  institution?
> r' saul newman

How could there be? They're trying to do the mitzvah of reading the
Torah in shul and/or the mitzvah of talmud torah, and we'll grudge
them that?

Perhaps there's an issur on writing a Torah scroll for minim and
apikorsim (I don't know if there is, but I wouldn't be entirely
surprised), but since the nonobservant are tinokot she'nishbu, they
wouldn't fall into this category. As it is said (by someone whose
identity escapes me), "There are two types of Jews: those who keep
mitzvot and those who keep more mitzvot"; in this case, we're dealing
with Jews who b'shogeg violate kashrut and shabbat, but are trying to
keep this one mitzvah of kriat haTorah - can be begrudge them this?

Mikha'el Makovi

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Message: 2
From: Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer <r...@aishdas.org>
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:02:39 -0400
[Avodah] Numbers and Letters on Bottlecaps

I've been wanting to see this psak for a while, and finally looked it up 
today. In Yalkut Yosef Hil. Shabbos vol. 2 p. 519 ROY paskens that if 
letters are printed on a bottlecap so that when one opens the bottle one 
rips the letters it is nevertheless permitted to open the cap on 
Shabbos! He says it is Middas Chassidus to open it prior to Shabbos, but 
that if one forgot to do so he may do so on Shabbos itself. His 
rationale (note 21) is that since he does not intend to erase the 
letters, even though it is a pesik reisha, since he has no hana'ah from 
the mechikah, and since this mocheik shelo al menas liktov is only assur 
me'd'Rabbanan, it is permitted. He refers to Tosafos in Shabbos 103a and 
Yoma 34b, to the Rashash to Kesuvos 6a, and to the Netziv, the Divrei 
Malkiel, and R' Yitzchok Elchonon in Be'er Yitzchok #15.

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Message: 3
From: "Stuart Feldhamer" <stuart.feldha...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:25:25 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Aftura

I don't know about imperatur, but a fontanelle is basically a hole.


> Since it's a "hole", "aftura" would seem to be a transliteration of
> "aperture".  The KSA at 91:13 offers "fontanelle, imperatur" as
> possible
> synonyms for "aftura".  But I don't understand how either of those
> might
> fit either, as a "fontanelle" is the soft spot on an infant's skull,
> and
> "imperatur" sounds like an "emperor".

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Message: 4
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:03:01 -0400
[Avodah] Ugli Fruit as a Siman

On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 09:32:50AM +0200, Eli Turkel wrote to Areivim:
:> It's called an ugli fruit.  It's a cross between a grapefruit and a
:> tangerine.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugli_fruit

(And thus "May our enemies have an ugly year" as a siman milsa.)

: Can one use a murkav for a siman?

R' Meir Shapiro wrote that the significance of using bee honey in
particular (as opposed to date honey as devash or some other sweetener)
is that the gemara uses a proof from a pasuq to show that it is
mutar despite having bee parts disolved in it. Thus, bee honey
is an example of letaheir es havemei'im.

Using a murkav, that heter can come from a maaseh issur, arguably makes
a similar point. (Although I'm just using that an excuse to share the
previous vertl.)


Micha Berger             It isn't what you have, or who you are, or where
mi...@aishdas.org        you are,  or what you are doing,  that makes you
http://www.aishdas.org   happy or unhappy. It's what you think about.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                        - Dale Carnegie

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Message: 5
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:22:38 -0400
[Avodah] Yelulei Yalil

I want to (belatedly) share what might be a huge chiddush or might
be naarishkeit.

The gemara (RH 34a) records the famous machloqes as to whether the pasuq's
teru'ah, called yevavah, is yelulei yalil (teru'ah) or genunei ganach
(shevarim). The assumption is consistently made that these are two kinds
of crying sounds, whimpering vs sobbing.

However, the sound of the gemara's word "yelulei", echoed in the Rambam
(Shofar 3:2) "hayelala shemeyalelan hanashim be'eis shemeyavevin", made
me wonder if "yevavah" really means sobbing, or inarticulate voicing
in general.

When a Middle Eastern ulelelates, crying a high pitched "lalalalalala",
it's a sound of joy. (If the woman in question is the Eim Sisera of the
100 qolos, maybe she is happy her son died a hero, a shahid.) Ulelate is
an onomatopoeia (a word that sounds like its meaning), so could "yelilah".

And so, the machloqes isn't only technical, how do we fulfil "yom
teru'ah yihyeh lahem" but also be about the basic nature of shofar --
is it a sad sound, or a happy one?

This would imply that when the gemara says that we do a shevarim-teru'ah
and not a teru'ah-shevarim because that's how people do it, they're saying
that people can be initially sad, and then come to terms with the price
and realize it was worth it, but people are less likely to do the reverse.
(Yes, I still have bitachon on the brain... the Dow is down so far yet
again today...)


Micha Berger             I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
mi...@aishdas.org        but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
http://www.aishdas.org   tasks as if they were great and noble.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                              - Helen Keller 

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Message: 6
From: "Simon Montagu" <simon.mont...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 03:30:59 -0700
Re: [Avodah] 10 Yemei Teshuva Paradox?

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 5:42 PM, David Eisen <dav...@arnon.co.il> wrote:

>  On the one hand we stress that 10 yemei teshuva are days in which HQB"H
> is especially responsive to our prayers a la Yevamot 105a, yet in our
> tefillot we stress His transcendence and greater distance from us (e.g.,
> le'eyla u'le'eyla, HaMelekh HaQadosh, HaMelekh HaMishpat). Based on the
> above Gemara and the underlying pasuk in Yeshayahu of Hashem's particular
> closeness (b'hiyoto qarov), I would have expected our tefillot to express a
> special closeness to the Ribono Shel Olam instead of the opposite. Any
> thoughts?

By definition, if anyone changes in AYT it is us and not KBH, so if we
experience a special closeness at this time it is because we have keveyachol
come up towards him rather than he keveyachol coming down towards us. I
would suggest that this "coming up", like climbing a mountain, causes a
change in our perspective which makes us realize more fully both how high we
have climbed and the infiniteness of the distance that continues to separate

I can't say that I have resolved the paradox, other than replacing it by a
slightly different one, but it makes some sense to me this way at least.

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Message: 7
From: "Ira Tick" <itick1...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:52:29 -0500
Re: [Avodah] 10 Yemei Teshuva Paradox?

Since the reference is from Kaddish, and is in praise of Hashem as beyond
human praise, that does not indicate G-d's personal distance, only His
transcendence of our verbal expressions of love and reverence.  That may
create a distance for us, if we only focus on G-d's uniqueness as a form of
"otherness."  If we instead focus on how aware we are during the Yamim
Noraim that we have a more intense awe of G-d than we do of man, or better
yet, a more fundamental intimacy, albeit intense, with G-d, we see the
uniqueness of our relationship with G-d and not His distance from us.  Any
relationship with a parent or a teacher or a master is an unequal
relationship and that at times requires separation behavior (Think the end
of U'Nesane Tokef...Adam Yesodo M'Afar...V'Ata Hu Melech E-L Chai V'Kayam).
But that does not prevent the combination of fear and love from being an
intimate experience.

Ira Tick
6519 N Whipple
Chicago, IL 60645
(414) 699-8285

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Message: 8
From: Allen Gerstl <acger...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 07:57:00 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Ad sheyeratzeh es chavero

In reading the biographies of gedolei Torah such as Rav Yom Tov Lipmann
Heller, who were greatly wronged by malshinim but IIRC forgave their
tormentors, a question comes to mind.  If a wrongdoer owes monetary
compensation for the injury that he has caused is he able to do teshuvah
without completing the payment of such compensation?  (Thus in the example
of the Tosefos Yom Tov, could he have demanded compensation from those who
slandered him.)  Can someone give a moral mechila to allow a transgressor
to do teshuvah without being mochel on such compensation. Is there a
difference between debts and compensation for damages? What of the takanot
ha-shavim - how to they apply?	

Perhaps our list members may have some answers or references.


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Message: 9
From: "M Cohen" <mco...@touchlogic.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 08:15:01 -0400
[Avodah] Is the term He died before his time correct?

RZS writes ... "Mi vekitzo, umi lo vekitzo".  Evidently it is possible to
die "lo vekitzo".
I find it odd, though, when a person dies in his 70s or even 80s, and people
announce his death as "untimely".  Sad, yes; shocking, even, if he was
previously in good health.  But how is it untimely?  Even if his parents
lived to 100, and he reasonably expected to do likewise, it still seems odd.

Similarly, I have often wondered when attending the hespedim of Gadol X that
died at the age of 90+ or so.

Why do many of the maspidim talk about 'our many aveiros that have caused
this tzadik to be taken away from us'

Is this not 'normal' or expected at this age?

mordechai cohen

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Message: 10
From: Daniel Eidensohn <yadmo...@012.net.il>
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:30:05 +0200
Re: [Avodah] Is the term ?He died before his time? correct?

R' Avroham Yakov wrote:
>> I am sure all of us have heard the term, ?He/she died before his/her 
>> time?, most often used when a young person  r?l dies.
>> But is such a term hashkofically correct?  If Ha-Shem decides to take 
>> someone, can that be ?before their time??
Chagiga(4b): R. Joseph, when he came to the [following] verse, wept: But 
there is that is swept away without judgment.27 [He said]:28 Is there 
anyone who passes away before one's [allotted] time?29 ? Yes, as in the 
story [heard] by R. Bibi b. Abaye,30 who was frequently visited by the 
Angel of death. [Once] the latter said to his messenger: Go, bring me 
Miriam, the women's hairdresser!31 He went and brought him Miriam, the 
children's nurse. Said he to him:32 I told thee Miriam, the women's 
hairdresser. He answered: If so, I will take her back. Said he to him: 
Since thou hast brought her, let her be added.33 But how were you able 
to get her?34 She was holding a shovel in her hand and was heating and 
raking1 the oven. She took it and put it on her foot and burnt herself; 
thus her luck was impaired and I brought her. Said R. Bibi b. Abaye to 
him2 : Have ye3 permission to act thus? He answered him: Is it not 
written: ?There is that is swept away without judgment?? He countered: 
But behold it is written: One generation passeth away, and another 
generation cometh!4 He replied: I have charge of them5 till they have 
completed the generation,6 and then I hand them over to Dumah!7 He 
[then] asked him: But after all, what do you do with her years?8 He 
replied: If there be a Rabbinic scholar who overlooks his hurt, I shall 
give them to him in her stead.9

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Message: 11
From: Cantor Wolberg <cantorwolb...@cox.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:43:16 -0400
[Avodah] Is the term he died before his time correct?

It can all be reconciled with Tosfos' response that when the
Gemara says that they are written and sealed for life or death,
it doesn't mean in this world, but in the next world.
G'mar chatima tova (either in olam hazeh or olam haba).


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Message: 12
From: "kennethgmil...@juno.com" <kennethgmil...@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 12:20:18 GMT
Re: [Avodah] Seforim Niftachim

Cantor Henry Topas asked:
> When we end with Besfer Chaim, Brochah v'sholom, upharnossah
> tovah  why wouldn't the lashon open up to include more
> bakashot? Is there no room for asking for personal bakashot
> such as chilutz atzamot suggested by the lashon of birchat
> hachodesh or for that matter, other bakashot made in the
> Katvaynu lines within the Avinu Malkinu?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your question. Why do you think that there
might be a problem with adding personal bakashot? I've always understood
these tefillos (well, actually, *all* tefillos) as mere starting points,
springboards to help one come up with more personal things to add when
speaking to one's Father.

Akiva Miller

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