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Volume 25: Number 198

Tue, 27 May 2008

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: "Rich, Joel" <JRich@sibson.com>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 05:53:10 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Rosh Hashanah 32b There's Hope For Everyone

        I suspect that the answer will vary depending on the specific
situation. We are not necessarily opposed to "doing away with human
intervention", but rather that some situations have rules which must be
followed. And in some situaitons, those rules are more flexible than in
other situations.
        To put it another way: No, our ultimate goal is emphatically NOT
to uncover the "truth". Rather our goal is to follow the rules, wherever
they may take us.
        Akiva Miller

 This was the point of my posting the excerpt from Judge Posner's book.
I would extend R' AM's statement to that in some places the rules are
extremely flexible (or there is very little precedent on point) and we
or the posek, consciously or unconsciously, use what we might call lev
hatorah, based on  learning, personality, experience and general
worldview , to reach a decision (or in fact legislate rather than judge)
(or say that halacha has no opinion - but this seems extremely rare
these days)
Joel Rich
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Message: 2
From: "Silverman, Philip B" <Philip.Silverman@bcbsga.com>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:46:55 -0400
[Avodah] First mention in the Torah

"We have a tradition that if we wish to discover a concept's meaning, we
should look at the first time it is mentioned in the Torah."

I found the above statement at a fine yeshivah's website. I've heard it
several times, and have seen some interesting examples, but can someone
tell me the source of the tradition, and perhaps a scholarly discussion
of the matter?


Thank you.



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Message: 3
From: T613K@aol.com
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:09:07 EDT
Re: [Avodah] irrational anti-Semites? Redux

>>Is this Hyksos model TIDE - iow that R. Hirsch would have accepted  - or TuM
or ...?<<
Kol Tuv / Best  Regards,
see: _http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/_ (http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/) 

I don't think you can neatly fit every bit of information or historical  
speculation precisely into one and only one box, labeled either "TIDE" or  "TuM."  
It would depend on the larger context of what book the paragraph  came out 
of, what the author's attitude was to the Divine Authorship of the  Torah, what 
the purpose of his book was, and so on.  Any given fact or  factoid could 
presumably be put to use by a TIDEist or a TuMist, perhaps in  different ways.  As 
to what Hirsch would have thought about this particular  bit about the Hyksos 
-- who knows?

--Toby  Katz

**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
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Message: 4
From: Galsaba@aol.com
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:13:07 EDT
[Avodah] Shemuah vs. Kabbalah

Is it not clear to me what the diffefence is.
Harambam mentions sometimes "Mippi Hashmuah" and sometinmes "Mippi 
Are those the same? or, one is Torah Lemoshe Misinai, ie, was given verbally 
to Moshe, and he deleivered to Yehushua, etc, and the other one is more 
Maskana (conclusion) , Kal VaChomer, etc.

**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
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Message: 5
From: cherrybim@optonline.net
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 17:43:48 +0000 (GMT)
[Avodah] Standing for mitzvot

Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:20:27 -0400
From: "Rich, Joel" <JRich@sibson.com>
Subject: [Avodah] Standing for mitzvot

 Re: Avodah Digest, Vol 25, Issue 194

The Avudraham (in his siddur, weekday Shacharit) writes that there are
six mitzvot which must be performed while standing, and their initials
spell "alotz shalem": [the cutting of the] omer, [kiddush] levana,
tzitzit, shofar, lulav, and mila."
There is another 
mitzva which must be performed while standing --"Before the aged you shall rise..."-- ???????? ??????? ??????? 
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Message: 6
From: "Michael Makovi" <mikewinddale@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 22:06:47 +0300
[Avodah] Loving Israel while in Chutz

A friend of mine recently had to leave Eretz haKodesh for Chutz
laAretz; she must leave for one year to finish her degree; and she
described her feelings as the following:

(In advance, I'll note: following her comments is a cutesy drasha of
mine, followed by a quote from Rav Kook that applies to her words.)

(This is off the top of her head, spur of the moment, in the middle of
a conversation, NOT something she prepared after any thought.)

I'm planning my life in terms of studying and how quickly i can escape
this tummah. im crying inside because i long for eretz yisrael and I'm
not happy to be here.
I feel stripped of my core
I want to be back in the holy land; eretz ha kodesh.
learning torah
and speaking about halachic issues and moral ones, as well as the two
as opposed to here in the tummah
getting a secular education.
I feel so strongly about this
I dont know if i can survive here much longer
I want to escape this pitifully deprived existence as quickly as possible
I know its only momentary but time will pass by so slowly
sliding by
as a physically incapable snail
creeping at even a slower pace then the average.
Days will seem like yrs
yrs like lightyears
torah will fade from within me
and ill cry out in longing with no way to put my desires into action
i despise chutz laaretz
i am crying on the inside
i feel as if god isn't here the way he is in jerusalem
i just feel it
i know it in my heart
theres a tremendous difference.
I couldn't bring the shechina back with me
and the attachment has lessoned
i miss my warm torah enviornment
and my discussions with friends
all surrounding torah and its meaning to us as jews
with an ache in my chest and a choking sensation in my throat.
i anticipated feeling this way
but i thought the pain would be less
it seems my mind isnt hepling
telling myself of my hasty return soon
it doesn't seem to be helping.
i need the kedusha of eretz yisrael
and my nation
to be among the jews
and not the abhorrent gentiles
where every other girl has a skirt on
and multifarious diff kipas are on the heads of various males
where u hear secular cab drivers calling out exclamations of baruch hashem
and charedim walking with their heads face downward at the kotel
where everyone feels one another's true pain
but wont apologize if they literally step on each others feet
where someone will give their life for u
if you'd only promise to say some pirkei tehillim in return
where mothers donate their children to the army
and those children feel the love of the land burning through their
veins on the battlefield
where jews from all over the world accumulate
and live as one in the diluted mess of cultures
where you'll catch someone praying at a bus stop
and another collecting tzedaka at the very same stop, for a fellow jew
where the sun shines
in the light of torah
and u feel the rainbow of the multicolored Israelis
all in unison
literally and ideologically.
i need to be in eretz yisrael
i am suffering every second of my being here
and i cant seem to stop crying
no matter how many more materialistic comforts I'm provided with here
its all meaningless
i need to function as a jew in the land of jews with our god gazing
over my shoulder for my own safety...


What is Olam haBa? Usually, we think of Olam haBa as Olam haNefashot
(to borrow Derech haShem's terminology), but really, the term also
encompasses the Messianic Era.

For example, in Pirkei Avot's introduction, we prove that every Jew
has Olam haBa because "amech kulam tzadikim, leolam yireshu aretz" -
evidently, we're speaking of an eternal *physical* inheritance of the
land after techiat hameitim in the eternal Messianic era, as some
meforshim to Pirkei Avot indicate (I saw it in Kehati, b'shem
haBartenura I think).

So if Shabbat is a taste of Olam haBa, then it means that every
Shabbat, you'll be getting a taste of Eretz Yisrael...enjoy!


Rav Kook somewhere says that if a person is pained to be in chutz
la'aretz, is is evidence he brought the shechina with him, as did
Yechezkel when he continued to prophesy outside the land. He didn't
cite a source, but I believe I found it:

Rav Kook, Orot, Orot Eretz Yisrael, chap 6:

("h" is sometimes hei and sometimes het, vowels are sometimes aleph
and sometimes ayin)

Pe'ulat ruah ha'kedusha ha'nikletet b'eretz yisrael po'elet hi tadir,
gam im nizdamen ha'davar v'yatza ha'adam hutza la-aretz al yedei ta'ut
o al yedei eizo siba muchrahat. Harei gam ha-nevua ke'she'hala k'var
b'eretz yisrael einah poseket gam b'hutz la'aretz. "Hayo haya d'var
hashem el y'hezkel b'eretz kasdim - hayo, mipnei she'haya k'var"
(Yechezkel 1:3, Moed Katan 25a).

Shifat ha'kodesh, she'hut'h'la b'eretz yisrael, m'laketet hi et kol
beirurei ha'kodesh ha'nimtza'im b'hutz la'aretz b'chol ha'ma'amakim,
u'm'karvatam b'koha ha'moshech eleiha.

Kol mah she'kasha yoter lisbol et avir hutz la'aretz, kol mah
she'margishim yoter et ruah ha'tumah shel adamah t'mei'a, zehu siman
liklita yoter penimit shel kedushat eretz yisrael, l'hesed elyon,
asher lo ye'azev mimenu mi she'zacha l'histofef b'tzeltzah shel eretz
hayim, gam b'hitrahko v'nudo, gam b'galuto v'eretz n'didato.

Ha'zarut she'margishim b'hutz la'aretz, harei hi m'kasheret yoter et
kol heshek ha'ruah ha'penimi l'eretz yisrael uk'dushatah. Ha'tzipiya
lirota mitgaberet v'tziur hakikat tavnit ha'kodesh shel eretz asher
einei hashem ba tamid, meireishit ha'shana ad aharit shana (Dev
11:12), mitameket yoter v'yoter v'omek t'shukat ha'kodesh shel hibat
tzion, shel zechirat ha'aretz, she'kol hamudot ba k'shurot, k'sh'hi
mitgaberet b'neshama, afilu y'hidit, harei hi osah p'ulat n'via maynit
l'chal ha'klal, l'riv'vot n'shamot ha'k'shurot imah, v'kol shofar shel
kibutz nidahim mitorer v'rahamim rabim mitgaberet, v'tikvat hayim
l'yisrael mitnotzetzet, v'tzemah hashem holeich uforeah, v'ohr y'shua
ugeula mitpatzel umitpasheit, k'shahar parus al heharim (Talmud
Yerushalmi, Berachot 1:1).

Translation from Lights on Orot, Rabbi David Samson and Tzvi Fishman,
pp. 135, 137

The activity of the Ruach HaKodesh that is received in the Land of
Israel is constant - even if a person should happen to leave for Chutz
L'Aretz, through a mistake, or because of some compelling reason.
Behold, even prophecy which has begun to appear in Eretz Yisrael does
not cease outside of the land. "The word of the Lord is/was to Ezekiel
in teh land of Kasdim - it is because it already was." 1

1 - Ezekiel 1:3. Moed Katan 25A.

The influx of Kedusha that began in the Land of Israel gathers in all
of the elucidations of holiness which are found in Chutz L'Aretz, in
all their ranges, and draws them up with its gravitational pull.

The more one is incapable of tolerating the air outside the land of
Israel; the more one feels the impure spirit of the defiled land- this
is a sign of a more interior absorption of the Kedusha of the Land of
Israel, of the sublime kindness which will never abandon the person
who has merited to take refuge in the clear umbrage of the land of
Israel, even in his distant journeys, even in his exile, and in the
land of his wanderings.

[Note: I thought umbrage only meant offense or disgust or anger or
annoyance; but apparently, it also means shade or shelter, especially
of foliage.]

The strangeness that one feels outside of the Land of Israel causes a
greater bond with the inner spiritual desire for Eretz Yisrael and its
Kedusha. The yearning to see the land increases, and the vision of the
concrete, holy image of the land which the eyes of G-d are always upon
from the beginning of the year until the end 2 becomes deeper and
deeper. And the depth of the holy yearning of the love of Zion, of
remembering the land wto which all the good things of life are bound -
when this valorously increases in the soul, even in one individual -
behold it acts like an overflowing spring to all of the Clal, to the
myriads of souls which are bound up with him, and the voice of the
shofar of the ingathering of the outcasts awakens; and great mercy
increases; and the hope of life for Israel sparkles; and the planting
of G-d develops and blooms; and the light of Salvation and Redemption
spreads out and out like the dawn which stretches over the mountains. 3

2 - Deut. 11:12.
3 - Jerusalem Talmud, Berachot, 1:1.

So, we learn a few things:
1) The kedusha follows you out
2) The worse you feel, it means the more you absorbed and appreciated
Israel's holiness, **and this will not leave you, wherever you go**.
3) Your love is bringing geula and the love of Tzion to all the souls
of Israel! Kol ha'kavod!

Mikha'el Makovi

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Message: 7
From: "Micha Berger" <micha@aishdas.org>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:57:51 -0400 (EDT)
[Avodah] Tearing toilet paper on Shabbos

I saw a post that presumes the halakhah is different than as I learned
it. I therefore am raising the topic here.

Tearing toilet paper is permissable on Shabbos or YT, when in the
context of kavod haberi'os and done in a derabbanan manner.


1- Kavod haberi'os only has bedi'eved meaning. Lechat-chilah one
should make sure there is precut paper before Shabbos, or choose
another restroom.

2- (And this is the point of disagreement) Tearing toilet paper is not
normally derabbanan. AIUI, if torn on the perforations, one is tearing
to size and that's deOraisa. Rather, one must either tear kel'acheir
yad, or make sure not to tear on the lines.

Another topic that came up was Huggies (a brand of baby wipe that
comes out far cheaper than the alternatives for me) or tissues that
are connected by a thin dotted line. They post a similar issue, except
that they are so barely connected -- typically 3 or four mere dots,
and wipes are so much thicker, that they will always come apart at the
dotted line.

One person suggested that perhaps they're not connected enough to be
considered qeri'ah, but I don't see it. (I'm just repeating it to give
more complete context.)

But I don't know about facial tissues. Is the need for one also
considered a sufficient kavod haberi'os issue?

SheTir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             "Man wants to achieve greatness overnight,
micha@aishdas.org        and he wants to sleep well that night too."
http://www.aishdas.org     - Rav Yosef Yozel Horwitz, Alter of Novarodok
Fax: (270) 514-1507

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Message: 8
From: "Micha Berger" <micha@aishdas.org>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:02:36 -0400 (EDT)
[Avodah] Office Coffee machine

Another halachic issue that came up recently...

My office has a one-cup coffee machine. All the flavors are kosher.
However, it also can be used to dispense hot water, and packets of hot
chocolate with marshmallow mix are right next to the coffee.

Do I have to worry about someone making hot chocolate and the hevel
treifing up the machine?

It's not washed with a nosein ta'am lifgam with any regularity, if ever.

SheTir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             "Man wants to achieve greatness overnight,
micha@aishdas.org        and he wants to sleep well that night too."
http://www.aishdas.org     - Rav Yosef Yozel Horwitz, Alter of Novarodok
Fax: (270) 514-1507

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Message: 9
From: <cantorwolberg@cox.net>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:37:13 -0400
[Avodah] Rosh Hashanah 32b There's Hope For Everyone

With all due respect I disagree emphatically with the following statement
made in the last posting:

To put it another way: No, our ultimate goal is emphatically NOT to uncover the "truth". Rather our goal is to follow the rules, wherever they may take us.

I think it is obvious that our goal IS to uncover the truth as indicated by the following (just a fraction of supportive documentation):

Truth is a foundation of the life God created, and abandoning the truth in
order to further one's own interests is tantamount to denying the very
existence of God. Sanhedrin 92a

Kindness and Truth have met, Righteousness and Peace have kissed. Tehillim 85:11
Truth will sprout from earth, and Righteousness will peer from heaven.
Tehillim 85:12
Teach me, O Lord, Your way, that I may travel in Your truth...
Tehillim 86:11

May God, whose seal is truth and whose name is truth and whose Torah is
truth, lead us in the path of truth that we may arrive at the truth, Amen.
Teshuvah of the Radvaz 4, 1127


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Message: 10
From: Zev Sero <zev@sero.name>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:23:33 -0400
Re: [Avodah] Tearing toilet paper on Shabbos

Micha Berger wrote:

> One person suggested that perhaps they're not connected enough to be
> considered qeri'ah, but I don't see it.

Mechatech, not qorea`.  IIRC qorea` applies only to things that were
separate and have been glued together, mechatech is cutting something

> But I don't know about facial tissues. Is the need for one also
> considered a sufficient kavod haberi'os issue?

Speaking as someone who has great tzaar when unable to blow my nose,
I just can't see the case for a kevod haberiyos exception here.
Snot and tzoah are just not comparable in this respect.

Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev@sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                                                  - Clarence Thomas


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