Avodah Mailing List

Volume 23: Number 158

Tue, 24 Jul 2007

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: "Michael Kopinsky" <mkopinsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:32:04 -0400
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] mashiach


On 7/20/07, Newman,Saul Z <Saul.Z.Newman@kp.org> wrote:
>
>  in case the geula comes this week, see the halacha column in yated. here
> is
> his take on birchos mashiach----
> ...5. Immediately after reciting this bracha, we will recite the bracha,
> &quot;Baruch Atah Hashem Elokeinu Melech Ha'olam shechalak mei'chachmaso
> lirei'av.&quot;
>

Is this necessarily the case?  Was Bar Kochva, for example, eligible for the
bracha of shechalak meichachmaso?

Methinks this halacha is slightly loaded politically....

KT,
Michael
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Message: 2
From: "Yisrael Medad" <yisrael.medad@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 21:21:16 +0300
Subject:
[Avodah] With Which Hand?


Due to my wife's trip to visit parents in the USA, I was left to my own to
make Havdalah.
As I began to recite, I suddenly thought to myself - well, here I am with
the becher in my left hand and the candle in my right but is that the proper
way?  Should it be the other way around, with the becher in my right (the
more important hand?), or if I feel more safe with the flaming candle in my
right, is the way I am okay?

Trying to be on the safe side, after placing the becher down to sniff the
b'samim, I then switched.

Afterwards, I tried a perusory check and found in the MB, Hilchot Shabbat,
298:3, that the Rama notes that when looking at one's fingernails for the
reflection, it is one's right hand fingernails that get the look and the
becher is in the left hand.  But that doesn't fully answer my question: in
which hand does one start out with holding the becher: the left or the
right?

Any summer bachelors out there with the answer?

-- 
Yisrael Medad
Shiloh
Mobile Post Efraim 44830
Israel
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Message: 3
From: "Shoshana L. Boublil" <toramada@bezeqint.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 21:25:23 +0300
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Keshuvah


> From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
> Subject: Re: [Avodah] kesuvah

> I asked why having a minhag of not paying the kesuvah when giving a get
> didn't make the document an asmachta.
>
> Your answer, to the best I can tell, was that it wouldn't be an asmachta
> because the issue only comes up if the marriage ends with a get. Your
> words were:
>> Because the ketubah isn't only about what the wife will get when she
>> gets a get (puns intended), but both the support owed while married and
>> the maintenance owed after her husband dies.
>
> Well, the kesuvah isn't only about the case of a mesareiv get, and in
> fact far more rarely ends in siruv than in get, and a codicil about this
> possibility /is/ ruled as being able to turn the whole thing an asmachta.
>
> So if a very rarely invoked clause could invalidate the contract, why
> wouldn't a more frequently invoked one that gets routinely ignored do
> the same thing?

First of all, the clause is NEVER ignored.

A. If the wife is suing for divorce -- she doesn't get the ketubah money. 
The funds were designated for payment when the husband wants a GET.

B. The formula used during the actual GET ceremony refers to the fact that 
by that time the parties have agreed what to do about the ketubah funds and 
therefore they are not an impediment to performing the GET.

So, there is no "minhag of not paying the ketubah", rather, the financial 
issues between the parties include many items (apartment, child support, 
pension and savings plans etc.) and the ketubah funds are just one such 
item, owed if the husband is the one seeking a GET.

The Ketubah has become more valuable in Israel over the last 15 years as 2 
things have changed:
a. Mesaderei Kiddushin are putting more emphasise on making sure that the 
Chatan knows the meaning of the Ketubah, and therefore limit the sum written 
there to a reasonable sum (in the past it was customary to write imaginary 
sums as a 'sign of love').

b. More and more lawyers are using the ketubah and it's related laws during 
the divorce process.

Another side issue is that the ketubah is being used more (over the last 15 
years) for cases of Chalitza and rights for widows.  Here are 2 case 
summaries (I'm not going into all the details):

A. A man died while saving someone from drowning.  The family decided that 
they wanted the couple's apartment and told the widow that she could hand 
over the apartment in return for the Chalitza, otherwise she could sit and 
wait.

The case came before the Dayanim who heard the sides (who didn't admit in 
court that they wanted the apartment) and they gave excuses for not giving 
the Chalitza.  The Dayan told the brother of the deceased that as she was 
considered his wife until he gave Chalitza, he was going to impose Mezonot 
on him to the sum of 10,000 NIS a month (legal lowest salary in Israel is 
around 4,000 NIS) plus all her utility expenses.

The brother gave chalitza the same day...

B. A widow (2nd marriage) was about to be thrown out of the apartment by the 
deceased's kids, not b/c they needed the apartment (they already took all 
the money etc., and they had their own homes and were very well off), but 
b/c they hadn't liked the fact that their father had remarried.  The widow 
had sufficient income to live on, but not to obtain living quarters.

Using the Ketubah as a basis, she sued to remain in the apartment, without 
paying rent, for as long as she was a widow.  Also, based on the Ketubah, 
she sued for maintenance from the estate.

The kids realized that they were going to lose everything, and they settled 
with the widow to allow her to live peacefully in the apartment and she 
would leave the rest of the inheritance alone.

The problem is not the Ketubah, it's that most lawyers don't know enough 
about it to take advantage of it.

Shoshana L. Boublil





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Message: 4
From: "SBA" <sba@sba2.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:57:37 +1000
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] TY and TY:


From: "Simon Montagu" <>
There's the Yein Hatov by R' Tuvia Wein, which brings every place in
TO, TY and TY where the translation isn't 100% literal, with a
translation back into Hebrew plus marei mekomot and notes.
>>

 I haven't heard of this previously.
Is he a mechaber of today and is the sefer available?

SBA



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Message: 5
From: "Cantor Wolberg" <cantorwolberg@cox.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 04:32:30 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Vaeschanan "The Sense of Touch is Strongest When You


Chapter 4, vs.28    ????????????-???? ????????, ???????? ????? ?????:  ??? ???????--?????? ???-???????? ????? ???????????, ????? ????????? ????? ????????.  28 "There you will serve gods, the work of men's hands, of wood and stone, which do not see, and do not hear, and do not eat, and do not smell." 
Here's what's fascinating.  The five senses are Sight, Smell, Touch, Taste and hearing. The above verse has four of the five senses. In wondering why the sense of touch was not included, I researched "touch" and came up with the following: "The most common receptors are heat, cold, pain, and pressure or touch receptors. Pain receptors are probably the most important for your safety because they can protect you by warning your brain that your body is hurt!" 
If you notice in the verse, the four senses mentioned are in the negative: "which do NOT see, do NOT hear, do NOT eat, do NOT smell." >From this I gathered that since the sense of touch is the most important for safety and protects by warning your brain that your body is hurt, it is not mentioned regarding idolatry because by "serving gods", one's safety and protection is gone. Had the verse also said "the gods of wood and stone do not touch," one would have had a false sense of security. 

Richard Wolberg
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Message: 6
From: "Marty Bluke" <marty.bluke@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:58:34 +0300
Subject:
[Avodah] Leather shoes on Tisha B'Av


Why are leather shoes of all things prohibited on Tisha B'Av? RSZA has
a fascinating answer based on the Shelah.

The Beracha of sheasa li kol tzorchi goes on shoes (in fact according
to the Rambam and Shulchan Aruch you make it after putting on your
shoes). The obvious question is why? Are shoes your only need? A
person who has shoes has no other needs? He has everything? The shelah
explains that leather shoes represent man's dominance/rule over the
world. The fact that man can kill an animal and wear it's skin to
protect his feet is the ultimate expression of dominance. Therefore
leather shoes represent man's dominance over teh world and the fact
that the world provides all of man's needs.

Based on this, we can explain why there is an issur to wear shoes on
Tisha B'Av, Yom Kippur an Avel, in the Bei Hamikdash. All of these are
times/places where man needs to show humility before Hashem and
therefore to wear leather shoes the symbol of man's dominance would be
inappropriate.



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Message: 7
From: "kennethgmiller@juno.com" <kennethgmiller@juno.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:16:29 GMT
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] 2AM Friday Night


R' Yisrael Medad showed us a link to an article which quoted the 
singer "Matisyahu" as saying:
> It was the first time in my career that I performed on a Friday
> night because the Sabbath didn't hit. That was an amazing show.
> The sun didn't go down until 2 a.m., so it was cool. There was
> no rush.

I think there may be a typo in here someplace. According to the 
Sunrise and Sunset chasrts of the U. S. Naval Observatory (at 
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.html) sunset at 
Fairbanks never gets later than 11:47 PM Alaska Standard Time. Even 
adding an hour for daylight time doesn't get us to 2 AM.

OTOH, the Wikipedia entry on "Alaska Time Zone" (at 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Time_Zone) includes a reference 
to "double daylight time", so maybe it rally was close to 2 AM.

Any Alaskans in the chevrah?

Akiva Miller




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Message: 8
From: Yitzhak Grossman <celejar@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:40:14 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Kosher Watermelon


[In response to a claim that it's perfectly OK to purchase watermelon
that may have been cut with a knife that has been previously used to
cut non-kosher items]

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:22:50 -0700

From: Elliott Shevin <eshevin@hotmail.com>

> R. Shmuel Zajac:
>  
> > I can see it in the big stores. The way these places are organized also supports that, 
> > I think.> > In small places, though, I would never take the chance. I've seen the way these 
> > guys work, and if they sell anything treif that might be cut with the same knives, I 
> > wouldn't get the watermelon.
>  
> Watermelon: cold, and easily more than 60 times whatever might be 
> stuck to the knife--possibly more than 60 times the knife itself.
>  
> Knife: cold and dry.
>  
> Produce clerk: someone who doesn't know there is such a thing as bitul 
> bashishim, much less is relying on it.
>  
> If the combination still gives you the creeps, you're free to pass on the 
> watermelon. But it's still kosher al pi halacha. There is no chance to be 
> taken. Elly

You still need graidah or hadaha [0].  Moreover, the Shach [1] seems to
imply that lechat'hilah one may not cut something with a non kosher
knife, since he may forget to do the aforementioned procedures.  [He
doesn't say, though, that you should avoid buying something that has
been so cut.] 

[0] Shulhan Aruch Yorah De'ah 96:5
[1] ibid. 23

Yitzhak
--
Bein Din Ledin - bdl.freehostia.com
An advanced discussion of Hoshen Mishpat




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Message: 9
From: "Allen Gerstl" <acgerstl@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:00:10 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Rambam and RIF


Dr. David Berger in the course of his paper, Judaism and General Culture in 
Medieval and Early Modern Times which is found in Judaism's Encounters with 
Other Cultures, J.J. Schacter (ed.), (Aronson: 1997) at p. 82, cites a 
letter from the Rambam to Joseph ben Judah apparently in answer to a request 
by the latter for wheather he should open a yeshivah and as to its 
curriculumn. Among other matters, he promotes the study of the RIF in that 
proposed school and then says:
                ... compare it [the RIF abbreviated Talmud] with the 
Composition [i.e. the Mishneh Torah]. IF YOU FIND A DISAGREEMENT, KNOW THAT 
CAREFUL STUDY OF THE TALMUD BROUGHT IT ABOUT, AND  **STUDY THE RELEVANT 
PASSAGE**. ... [emphasis mine]

Does anyone know of whether there is an expeditious way of pinpointing those 
halachot where the Rambam disagrees with the RIF so that one may implement 
the Rambam's suggestion to Joseph ben Judah.  I realize the if someone used 
the Rambam and compared each halacha to that of the RIF such could be found 
but my question is as to whether there is such a list in any source or 
whether there is a source that can be used to easily and expeditiously to 
create a list of such disagreements between the Rambam and the RIF so as to 
implement that particular suggestion of the Rambam to "study the relevant 
passage[s]".

KT
Eliyahu





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Message: 10
From: Goldmeier <goldmeier@012.net.il>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:07:21 +0300
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] 2AM Friday Night


My family took a trip when I was younger and in my diary I wrote that we 
davened mincha at 2:00am the first night....

I also wrote that we took in early Shabbos later in the trip  at 10:30 pm...

Summertime

---------
Goldmeier
goldmeier@012.net.il

http://torahthoughts.blogspot.com
http://lifeinisrael.blogspot.com
http://parshaquestions.blogspot.com
http://yomtovthoughts.blogspot.com




kennethgmiller@juno.com wrote:
> R' Yisrael Medad showed us a link to an article which quoted the 
> singer "Matisyahu" as saying:
>   
>> It was the first time in my career that I performed on a Friday
>> night because the Sabbath didn't hit. That was an amazing show.
>> The sun didn't go down until 2 a.m., so it was cool. There was
>> no rush.
>>     
>
> I think there may be a typo in here someplace. According to the 
> Sunrise and Sunset chasrts of the U. S. Naval Observatory (at 
> http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.html) sunset at 
> Fairbanks never gets later than 11:47 PM Alaska Standard Time. Even 
> adding an hour for daylight time doesn't get us to 2 AM.
>
> OTOH, the Wikipedia entry on "Alaska Time Zone" (at 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Time_Zone) includes a reference 
> to "double daylight time", so maybe it rally was close to 2 AM.
>
> Any Alaskans in the chevrah?
>
> Akiva Miller
>
> _______________________________________________
> Avodah mailing list
> Avodah@lists.aishdas.org
> http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
>
>
>   



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Message: 11
From: "Micha Berger" <micha@aishdas.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] kamtza and bar-kamtza



On Fri, July 20, 2007 7:52 am, R Eli Turkel replied to my objection:
:>: The Jews on the contrary always act without thinking of the
:>: consequences (see last Tosafot Gittin 65b).... In the last two
:>: stories the Jews start up with the Romans over minor customs that
:>: certainly are not within "yehareg ve-al ya-aovor".

:> Except that besha'as hashemad, you can't even cave in on shoelace
:> color, no? Is that because one is hiding Jewish identity, or because
:> in times of shemad, every hanhagah is yeihareig ve'al ya'avor?

: The Romans were not trying to stop the minhag. The Jews took the
: initiative (not passive) because of what the Romans did inadvertently.
: This was not  besha'as hashemad,

I understood things differently, particularly because of the inclusion
of the word "beshe'as" in that idiom. At a time of shemad, giving in
on any element of Jewish identity is prohibited. I do not see this as
being about those elements they particularly banned. Otherwise, why
generalize saying "at a time of"?

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha@aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter




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Message: 12
From: "Micha Berger" <micha@aishdas.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:59:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] 2AM Friday Night


On Fri, July 20, 2007 9:39 am, Yisrael Medad wrote:
: I spotted this item and wondered: if the sun hadn't set, it wasn't
: night, right?
: Or is there any other way to do Shabbat in Fairbanks?

A rleated, but slightly different question...

Is there a minimum shiur for night?

If there is no sunset, within the arctic circle, we have pesaqim about
mapping that to a point that does -- the point of departure, the
nearest qehillah, Y-m, etc... We may not have a single masqanah, but
the subject is well discussed and there are known shitos.

What if there is sunset, but only for a minute or two? Do we follow a
2 minute night, or do we follow the arctic circle pesaq?

What if the sun only sets partway? Does it follow leading edge, the
middle of the sun, the lower edge?

Etc...

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha@aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter




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Message: 13
From: "Richard Wolpoe" <rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:18:49 -0400
Subject:
[Avodah] Fwd: Rabbi*Wolpoe*Comment : Se'udah Hamfsekes -


Richard Wolpoe has sent you a link to a blog:



Blog: Rabbi*Wolpoe*Comment
Post: Se'udah Hamfsekes - Final Meals
Link:
http://rabbiwolpoecomment.blogspot.com/2006/08/seudah-hamfsekes-final-meals.html

--
Powered by Blogger
http://www.blogger.com/


-- 
Kol Tuv- Best Regards,
Rabbi Richard Wolpoe
RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com
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Message: 14
From: "Micha Berger" <micha@aishdas.org>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:37:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: [Avodah] Leather shoes on Tisha B'Av


On Sun, July 22, 2007 2:58 pm, Marty Bluke wrote:
: Why are leather shoes of all things prohibited on Tisha B'Av? RSZA has
: a fascinating answer based on the Shelah.
:
: The Beracha of sheasa li kol tzorchi goes on shoes (in fact according
: to the Rambam and Shulchan Aruch you make it after putting on your
: shoes). The obvious question is why? Are shoes your only need? A
: person who has shoes has no other needs? He has everything? The shelah
: explains that leather shoes represent man's dominance/rule over the
: world. The fact that man can kill an animal and wear it's skin to
: protect his feet is the ultimate expression of dominance....

Al pi haZohar (I am told) shoes are representative in another way.

The soul rises far above the little bit that resides in the body.
Thus, the neshamah wears a body much the way people wear shoes, as a
small covering at the bottom.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha@aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter



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