Avodah: Volume 12, Number 62

Tuesday, December 23 2003

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
  1. Re: Where is Ararat
  2. Re: chanukah and trvelling by plane overnight
  3. Re: chanukah and trvelling by plane overnight
  4. chanukah and trvelling by plane overnight
  5. Chanukah lights at work
  6. Re: Chanukah Lights and Late Work
  7. Re: Brisk and structuralism
  8. Re: Driving on Shabbos in Lakewood?
  9. Re: Chanukah Lights and Late Work
  10. Chanukah Candles in Shul
  11. Re: calculation of ma'aser
  12. Did Yitzchok Avinu Speak Rechilus?
  13. Re: Standing/sitting for the chupah
  14. Did Yitzchok Avinu Speak Rechilus?
  15. Re: Did Yitzchok Avinu Speak Rechilus?
  16. Re: chanukah and trvelling by plane overnight
  17. RE: Driving on Shabbos in Lakewood
  18. "Unintended Bias"
  19. Re: Chanukah Lights and Late Work
  20. Maoz Tzur vertl...
  21. Re: calculation of ma'aser
  22. RE: Did Yitzchok Avinu Speak Rechilus?

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:50:32 EST
From: Y...@aol.com
Subject:
Re: Where is Ararat


[RAFolger:]
> Anyway, the theory of the dettractors of Mount Ararat is that harei
> Ararat is an area, not a single mountain, and that it should be lower
> down, as landing on a peak would hardly soon enough mean that birds
> would find trees to rest on.

See also Sede Hadors year 1656 lash paragraph.

Kol Tuv,
Yitzchok Zirkind


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Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:30:13 -0500
From: Zev Sero <zs...@free-market.net>
Subject:
Re: chanukah and trvelling by plane overnight


>>Does anyone know the halacha of what to if you are
>>travelling on a plane to Israel. We (My wife, son,
>>and I) have to be at the airport before shkiya and
>>will not get of the plane till it is morning. What
>>do we do for chanukah licht?

If you take off after shkiah, why not light at the airport?

> I asked R' Hershel Schachter about this yesterday. His answer was that
> there is really nothing that you can do about it. It is certainly a
> sakanah to light candles on an airplane so you cannot do it.

Who says it's a sakanah?  A friend of mine has photos of her lighting
in a plane's galley, with the crew looking on and smiling.

> In terms of subsequent days, when I spoke about this with R' Daniel Z.
> Feldman, he mentioned that there might be a question of whether you can
> continue adding lights in subsequent days once you missed a day. In other
> words, the mehadrin min ha-mehadrin is to add a candle each day and once
> you miss a day you lose that mehadrin min ha-mehadrin.

Why not light during the day, without a bracha?  Isn't that what we do
in shul?

 -- 
Zev Sero                    Security and liberty are like beer and TV.
zs...@free-market.net       They go well together, but are completely
                            different concepts.		- James Lileks


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Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:08:15 EST
From: T6...@aol.com
Subject:
Re: chanukah and trvelling by plane overnight


In Avodah V12 #60 dated 12/22/03  efr...@att.net writes:
> Does anyone know the halacha of what to if you are travelling on a plane to 
> Israel.  We (My wife, son, and I) have to be at the airport before shkiya 
> and will not get of the plane till it is morning. What do we do for chanukah 
> licht?

Heard of a couple who went in together to a bathroom, covered the toilet
with a blanket, lit one candle and tried to stay there for half an hour.
People banging on the door, stewardesses upset etc etc. My father
laughed when he heard this story.

Nowadays smoke detectors, wouldn't work.

Not a posek but I think you can light a flashlight bedieved. Just one
light should be enough.

 -Toby Katz


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:13:37 +1100
From: "SBA" <s...@iprimus.com.au>
Subject:
chanukah and trvelling by plane overnight


From:  efr...@att.net
> Does anyone know the halacha of what to if you are travelling on a plane
> to Israel. We (My wife, son, and I) have to be at the airport before
> shkiya and will not get of the plane till it is morning. What do we do
> for chanukah licht?

I heard from someone here that our Rav paskened in such a case to take
along a flashlight [what we call a torch], and have that with you in
your seat. Switch it on [without a brocho] and hold it for half an hour.

I presume when doing it this way, one is enough - with no reason to be a
'mehadrin'.

SBA


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Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:50:57 +0000
From: "Joshua Kay" <dov...@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Chanukah lights at work


<<This brings to mind a question that I've had for a while. What about
the sugya of the chenvani (shopkeeper) who had a camel knock down his
candles and start a fire? While everybody's busy trying to figure out
whether or not the halakha is that you should put your candles lower
than 10 tefachim, I have a more basic question: If there's no kiyum
(at least) in lighting at work if that's where you happen to be when the
zeman hadlakah comes around, then what is the shopkeeper doing lighting
Chanukah candles in the first place?!>>

IIRC, RSZA held (recorded in a volume of Mevakshei Torah) that a person
who spends all day in his shop, eats all of his meals in his shop and
only returns home to sleep may light in his shop.

A freilichen chanukah,
Dov Kay


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Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:54:47 -0500
From: Kenneth G Miller <kennethgmil...@juno.com>
Subject:
Re: Chanukah Lights and Late Work


R' Gil Student wrote, as I've always learned, that <<< The chiyuv is not
pirsumei nissa. The chiyuv is lighting candles in a *bayis*. The reason
for this chiyuv is pirsumei nissa. Do you walk around town all evening
with a menorah in your hands? No! >>>

This thread is the first time I've ever heard of an opinion that one
might fulfill Pirsumei Nisa in a manner other than by lighting a specific
type of ner in a specific type of place, meeting various other specific
requirements.

R' Chaim Markowitz explained the source: <<< The Brisker Rav is quoted
as learning the Rambam as saying that the real chiyuv is one of persumei
nisa. It is just that chazal were miskain that the way one is m'kayeim
the mitzvah is thru hadlaka. (The other ways to understand it is that
either a) the chiyuv is the ma'aseh hadlaka but there is a tenai that
it must be done in a way which is mefarseim the neis-however this tenai
might not be m'akeiv or b) there are 2 independent mitzvos-one of hadlaka
and one of persumei nisa) >>>

Okay, so according to the Brisker, would a person fulfill Pirsumei Nisa
if he acted as R' Gil suggested, by walking around town all evening
carring a properly lit menorah?

How about a person who lit in his home, but his neros used a non-wick
fuel? Suppose they were made of wood, or they burned propane? Would that
also fulfill Pirsumei Nisa?

Or, to use the example my teachers often used when they wanted to point
out how Chazal set up specific requirements for specific reasons ---
If the front of my house would have many flashing lights saying "Happy
Chanukah!", and "Remember the Pach HaShemen!", and I would stand there
reading the story of Chanukah aloud, publicizing the miracle for all
passers-by to hear, would that fulfill Pirsumei Nisa according to the
Brisker Rav?

Akiva Miller


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Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:43:45 +0000
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Re: Brisk and structuralism


On Mon, Dec 22, 2003 at 09:02:19AM -0800, Newman,Saul Z wrote:
: http://yutopia.yucs.org/archives/000350.html aparrallel between Brisk
: derech and a method in the social sciences

My instinct was to find ann association between Brisker derekh and the
antecedants of Structuralism, something more contemporary to RCBrisker.

However, think how apt the following comments from Wikipedia's entry
on structuralism are when applied to Brisk
<http://en.wikipedia.com/wiki/Structuralism>:
> The term structuralism is used in many contexts in different disciplines
> in the 20th century. Structuralism proposes the idea that many phenomena
> do not occur in isolation, but instead occur in relation to each other,
> and that all related phenomena are part of a whole with a definite,
> but not necessarily defined, structure. Structuralists, in any area of
> knowledge, attempt to perceive that structure and the changes that it
> may undergo with the goal of furthering the development of that system
> of phenomena or ideas.
...
> Structuralism in Linguistics
...
> Saussure believed that the meanings expressed in a language were
> determined by an analogous system of differences.

> This way of thinking has several obvious characteristics.

> It defines the boundaries of a language by reference to its internal
> structure.

> It portrays the workings of a language solely in terms of the internal
> structure, rather than seeking a set of causes, functions, or patterns
> that could underlie several different structures. If generalized from
> phonetics to meaning, the approach obviously raises the possibility that
> what's expressed in one language cannot be expressed in any other.

> Most pervasively, it depends on a notion of purely abstract structure
> underlying all the particular manifestations of a language...

Anyone hear in this the Brsker focus on chiluq? How about understnading
halakhah from within the categories of itself, with no appeal to meaning or
the girsa'os?

 -mi

 -- 
Micha Berger             Until he extends the circle of his compassion
mi...@aishdas.org        to all living things,
http://www.aishdas.org   man will not himself find peace.
Fax: (413) 403-9905                        - Albert Schweitzer


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 02:03:39 +0000
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Re: Driving on Shabbos in Lakewood?


On Mon, Dec 22, 2003 at 12:09:16PM -0500, R Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer wrote:
: I am not sure I understand the question.

Let me try from the begining -- which would be a nice change, no?

The gemara asks if mashiach could arrive on Shabbos, and concludes that
he could as he will travel lema'alah mei-10. However, from what we're
saying now, wouldn't that enable him to arrive, but not get off said
flying white donkey until after Shabbos?

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Until he extends the circle of his compassion
mi...@aishdas.org        to all living things,
http://www.aishdas.org   man will not himself find peace.
Fax: (413) 403-9905                        - Albert Schweitzer



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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 02:14:14 +0000
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Re: Chanukah Lights and Late Work


On Mon, Dec 22, 2003 at 12:24:49PM -0500, Markowitz, Chaim wrote:
: The Brisker Rav is quoted as learning the Rambam as saying that the real
: chiyuv is one of persumei nisa. It is just that chazal were miskain that
: the way one is m'kayeim the mitzvah is thru hadlaka.

: (The other ways to understand it is that either a) the chiyuv is the
: ma'aseh hadlaka but there is a tenai that it must be done in a way which
: is mefarseim the neis-however this tenai might not be m'akeiv or b)
: there are 2 independent mitzvos-one of hadlaka and one of persumei nisa)

I would ammend (b) to:
There are 2 mitzvos -- the de'Oraisah of pirsumei nisa, and the deRabbanan
of of hadlaqas neiros. They aren't totally independent, as the hadlaqah
is based in a mishoreshei hamitzvah way to PN.

Therefore, the purpose of hadlaqah is PN, as the gemara in Shabbos says.
However, this doesn't limit the qiyum of hadlaqah to cases of PN, nor
enlarge it to cases that weren't actually in the takanah.

This seems very close to the Brisker Rav's sevarah. However, his sevarah
fits better. Not just the Rambam, but the tendency amongst rov rishonim
to explain how various situations are PN. If (b) were true, the takanah
could be satisfied even if PN isn't.

It also would give value to PN in ways that do not fulfil the takanah,
while not requiring/allowing a preceeding berakhah.

Which brings me to my surprise at this next comment. On Fri, Dec 19,
2003 at 02:19:48PM +0200, R Akiva Blum wrote:
: Is there PN by lighting a menora in the middle of the street where
: everyone can see? Is there PN by placing a menora on the top of your car?

: No!

What do you mean, "no?" Are people informed or reminded of the neis or not?
Of course they are -- so in what way isn't one being mefarseim it?

: PN only exists within the parameters that chazal set for the kiyum mitzva.

: Everything else may or may not be a good idea, or simply a joke.

If this were true, then tzedaqah may or may not be a good idea, or even
a joke, if not given as per a specific takanah. PN, like tzedakah, is
part of a basic Jewish value. One should act on this value in manners
other than the minimum required by specialized dinim. No?

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Until he extends the circle of his compassion
mi...@aishdas.org        to all living things,
http://www.aishdas.org   man will not himself find peace.
Fax: (413) 403-9905                        - Albert Schweitzer



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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:18:47 +1100
From: "SBA" <s...@iprimus.com.au>
Subject:
Chanukah Candles in Shul


From: Harry Weiss <hjwe...@panix.com>
> At shul on Friday, erev Chanukah, the Rabbi lit the Menorah in the shul.
> He put the Menorah against the window on the South Side of the Shul and
> lit the candle of the far left.

> Several of us have never seen it lit on the left side before and asked
> about it. He said that it came from the Kitzur. (It was not the standard
> Kitzur but a sefer of halachot by that name from a Rabbi (I cannot
> remember his name) in Tel Aviv.

It would be interesting to know the sefer and its mechaber is.

But I was also suprised to read that the menorah in shul is lit by
the window. In all shuls that I have seen the menorah lit, it is done
in front - near the Oron Hakodesh.

And, IMHO, it makes sense thus. As the whole purpose of lighting in shul
is pirsumei nisseh - for [I presume] the mispalleim, not the bypassers
on the street.

Any other shuls that light at the window?

SBA


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:20:31 +1100
From: "SBA" <s...@iprimus.com.au>
Subject:
Re: calculation of ma'aser


From: "Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org>
> An aside: If you're transliterating to English spelling, the CC's surname
> would be "Kahan", as in "R' Yisrael Meir haKohein". You find use of
> the "g" in spelling his name because the Cyrillic alphabet has no "h"
> sound. .... I feel that calling him "R' Kahan" would be more accurate.

And of course there is also nothing wrong with simply calling him
the "Chofetz Chaim", as have done ruba deruba of klall yisroel sicen
publication of that sefer - and even in his lifetime...

> The MB is usually explained to mean that anything beyond 20% would not
> be for mitzvas tzedaqah.

I have been told that the Tanya writes that the 10% limit is only for
those who have never sinned. Those who have, there is no shiur - as
"vechol asher lo'ish yitein baad nafshoy..'

SBA


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:21:05 +1100
From: "SBA" <s...@iprimus.com.au>
Subject:
Did Yitzchok Avinu Speak Rechilus?


From: "Carl and Adina Sherer" <>
> Did Yitzchok Avinu speak rechilus when he told Aisav "ba achicha b'mirma
> va'yikach birchosecha"?

Vos rechilus, ven rechilus???

Both Targum and Rashi translate 'bemirmoh' - as 'bechochmo'...

SBA


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:21:44 +1100
From: "SBA" <s...@iprimus.com.au>
Subject:
Re: Standing/sitting for the chupah


From: Harry Maryles <hmary...@yahoo.com>
> .....I seem to recall that the reason to stand is because of the
> requirement that Nissuin take place in front of a minyan. ...and
> anything that requires a minyan is a davar Shebekedusha which requires
> standing.. Borchu, Kaddish, Kedusha, Chazaras HaShatz, Kriyas Hatorah,
> all require a minyan and we therefore stand.

You may be surprised to learn that except of Kedusha, there are plenty of
people who do not stand.

> I also question whether one can properly classify something as a
> "personal chumra" where (based on things we have heard on this list),
> it appears to be the minhag everywhere in the world outside North America.

If the Minhag HaMakom is almost universally to sit, then the Poretz
Geder is the one who stands, IMHO.

Poretz geder when obeying a halocho???
I don't think so.

[In our shul almost everyone sits during Krias Hatorah, so if someone
stands - is he a PG?]

SBA


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:53:52 +1100
From: "SBA" <s...@iprimus.com.au>
Subject:
Did Yitzchok Avinu Speak Rechilus?


> From: "Carl and Adina Sherer" <>
>> Did Yitzchok Avinu speak rechilus when he told Aisav "ba achicha b'mirma
>> va'yikach birchosecha"?

> Vos rechilus, ven rechilus???
> Both Targum and Rashi translate 'bemirmoh' - as 'bechochmo'...

After writing this, I gave it a bit more thought.
And it reminded me of a complaint I recently heard from a choshuv TC.
He was bemoaning the fact that bad people and avlas are not being reported
to those who could possibly do something to improve the situation -
because over an overfrumkeit in concern about LH.

If we learn poshut pshat in the chumash, Yitzchok wanted to bentch Eisov.
However, Yaakov came and stole those brochos. True it was the result of
prodding of his mother Rivka, but that was unknown to Yitzchok. So in
Yitzchok's eyes, Yaakov was lechoireh a 'ganev'.

Nu, so Yitzchok told Eisov the facts...So what?
Is it rechilus to report to someone that I saw ploni robbing your home??

KNLAD
SBA


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:32:18 +0200
From: "Carl and Adina Sherer" <she...@actcom.co.il>
Subject:
Re: Did Yitzchok Avinu Speak Rechilus?


On 23 Dec 2003 at 13:21, SBA wrote:
> From: "Carl and Adina Sherer" <>
>> Did Yitzchok Avinu speak rechilus when he told Aisav "ba achicha b'mirma
>> va'yikach birchosecha"?

> Vos rechilus, ven rechilus???

> Both Targum and Rashi translate 'bemirmoh' - as 'bechochmo'...

Ain hachi nami but that doesn't mean it was not (at least avak)
rechilus. You wouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that
hearing that would make Eisav angry at Yaakov.

-- Carl


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 04:09:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Harry Maryles <hmary...@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: chanukah and trvelling by plane overnight


Zev Sero <zs...@free-market.net> wrote:
> Why not light during the day, without a bracha?  Isn't that what we do
> in shul?

IIUC in shul it is strictly for Pisumei Niisa purposes and to remind us
of where the original Menorah was locatd in the B. Hamikdash.

AS for Halacha it is permissible to light the Menorah any time after Plag
HaMincha with a Bracha as long as there is enough oil in at least one
container to continue burning beyond Tzeis for a half an hour. Hadlakah
Osah Mitzvah V'Einah Zakuk lah so even if it inadvertantly extinguishes,
you have completely fulfilled the basic Mitzvah of Hadlakas Neros
Chanukah.

HM


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:25:18 +0200
From: "Danny Schoemann" <dannyschoem...@hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Driving on Shabbos in Lakewood


This thread has been bothering me. Every few days another such story is
added to the list. I think we're up to 4 recent incidents already.

While I fully understand the concept of relying on a goy in order to
provide proper Oneg Shabbes and Menuchas Hanefesh to all involved,
I am wondering whatever happened to the concept of Kidush Hashem and
Mesiras Nefesh.

We're not talking about a takonas Chazal of lighting chanuka candles in
transit - we're talking about Chillul Shabbes Befarhesia!!

If this is how the ultra-fruhm relate to Shabbes, what can be expected
from the rest of Klal Yisroel.

Compare to the famous saying of RYS to the affect that: When a bochur
slacks off learning in Poland a Yid smokes on Shabbes.

Yismechu Bemalchuscho Shomrei Shabbos (and only then) Vekorai Oneg.

Oy, Shabbes!

- Danny


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:57:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org>
Subject:
"Unintended Bias"


Unsurprisingly, there are a couple of trade rags that I follow as part
of keeping abreast of the industry. I never thought I'd see an article
in one of them worth mentioning here.

However, last week's issue of ComputerWorld had an interesting interview
of Mahzarin R. Banaji, a professor of social ethics at Harvard. See
<http://tinyurl.com/295zu>. It seems that one can find bias in hiring
practices even among people who believe that such ethnic / racial
preference is immoral. A realization of the gap between what one knows
intellectually and what is in one's heart.

A sidebar reports that according to the results of the Implicit
Association Test <http://www.implicit.harvard.edu>, taken by more than
2.5 million people:
> + 75% of test takers favor young, rich and white people over old, poor
> and non-white people.
> + Those who show bias on tests are more liely to act that way in
> face-to-face interactions and decisions
> + The desire not to be biased doesn't eliminate bias.

The interview is an interesting statement about the insidiousness of
a midah. The URLs provided may offer usable advice about detecting
such middos you thought you already eliminated.

 -mi

 -- 
Micha Berger             When you come to a place of darkness,
mi...@aishdas.org        you don't chase out the darkness with a broom.
http://www.aishdas.org   You light a candle.
Fax: (413) 403-9905        - R' Yekusiel Halberstam of Klausenberg zt"l


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:21:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Gil Student" <g...@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Re: Chanukah Lights and Late Work


Chaim Markowitz wrote:
>The Brisker Rav is quoted as learning the Rambam as saying that
>the real chiyuv is one of persumei nisa. It is just that chazal
>were miskain that the way one is m'kayeim the mitzvah is thru
>hadlaka.

Everything I said is consistent with this. Because Chazal were mesakein
how the kiyum should be done, we cannot go around making up new ways to be
mekayem the mitzvah.

>Another interesting shailah in persumei nisa is whether persumei
>nisa is klapei others (to make others aware of the neis) or is it
>also klapei atzmo.

Which is why if you come home late at night and no one is awake, it is
questionable whether you really have to wake someone up to see your
candles. As long as you see them, you have been mefarsem the miracle.

>Furthermore, the Aruch Hashulchan says a blind person doesn't light
>cause since he can't see theneiros there is no persumei nisa.

I think the Shevet HaLevi disagrees with this and holds that a blind
person can even make a berachah on lighting.

Carl Sherer wrote:
>What if someone is not sleeping in his house that
>night for whatever reason?

Then there are halochos on how to determine what is considered his house.
In hilchos eiruvin there is a machlokes regarding someone who is not
staying at his regular house, whether makom pita is considered his house
or makom linah. Le-halachah we hold that it is makom pita so where he eats
is considered his house (if he is not staying at all in his regular
house).

>In the Hagahos Baruch Ta'am (in the standard Shulchan
>Aruch) OH 671, he writes that if an achsanai bentched
>in shul, he cannot make a bracha when he gets to his
>achsanya.

This is a very difficult statement. If you look in his wording, he writes
that an achsanai is yotzei in shul ONLY if someone is lighting for him at
home. The poskim have a lot of trouble making sense out of this. R'
Hershel Schachter, in BeIkvei HaTzon ch. 20 n. 1 leaves the whole comment
as tzarich iyun gadol. I saw that one posek (I forgot who) tried to ignore
and minimize that condition but that did not satisfy me too much.

>See the Beiruei HaGra there who understands that the tzibur
>should do pirsumei nissa anytime a yachid is obligated to

I did not remember to look that up, but I do not believe that it is a
setirah to what I've said above. I'm speaking based on what I heard and
read from R' Hershel Schachter. In Nefesh HaRav, regarding havdalah and
chanukah candles, he seems to say something similar to that Gra. I will
b"n have to look things up before explaining, and this will probably tie
in with RYBS's Torah on hallel in shul on the first night of Pesach.

Gil Student
g...@aishdas.org
www.aishdas.org/student


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:18:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Maoz Tzur vertl...


One line in Ma'oz Tzur I particularly love. The 5th verse of Maoz Tzur
describes the Chanukkah story. One phrase in this verse is "ufortzu
chomos migdalai", which would be literally translated "and they opened
up the walls of my citadel". Mentally, I always pictured breaking down
the walls of the Beis Hamikdosh, or perhaps a fortress.

However, I found the following Mishna in Midos (Ch. 2, Mishna 2 in the
Yachin Uboaz edition, Mishna 3 in Kahati's -- who splits up the YU"B's
mishna 1 into 2 parts). The second chapter describes the Beis Hamikdosh
as it would appear to someone walking in from outside the Temple Mount
to the Altar. This mishna picks up right after you walk through the gate
and onto the Temple Mount.

	Inside of it is the soreg, 10 tephachim [appx 2'6"] high. It had
	thirteen pratzos there, that the Hellenist kings partzum. They
	returned and closed them off, and legislated corresponding to
	them 13 prostrations.

To help you picture what a soreg is, the root means woven. The Bartenura
describes the soreg as a mechitzah woven out of thin wooden slats running
at diagonals. The Bartenura compares it to the part of the bed used to
support the mattress, with plenty of open space inside the weave.

He goes on to say that the Hellenists opened up holes in the soreg
opposite each of the gates in the outer wall to let anyone see in.
Note the shoresh used /p-r-tz/, the same as in the piyut. The soreg
marked the limit for gentiles, they were not allowed in beyond that
point. To the Hellenist mind, this havdalah bein Yisrael la'Amim was
repugnant. It ran against their assimalationist efforts.

Chomos migdalei, the walls of my citadel, were not the mighty walls around
the Temple Mount or the walls of a fortress. They were a see-through
mechitzah, the realization that the Jew, as one of the Mamleches Kohanim,
has a higher calling.

 -mi

 -- 
Micha Berger             When you come to a place of darkness,
mi...@aishdas.org        you don't chase out the darkness with a broom.
http://www.aishdas.org   You light a candle.
Fax: (413) 403-9905        - R' Yekusiel Halberstam of Klausenberg zt"l


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:46:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Harry Maryles <hmary...@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: calculation of ma'aser


Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:
> I should admit my reluctance to write the above. While Torah hi,
> velilmodah anu tzerichim, being chosheish for the Shelah or even the
> Maharil would raise the amount of tzedakah given. Dwelling on the tzad
> heter is not necessarily a good idea.

There are two kinds of donations that warranted in the Torah world.
One entails giving money to the poor. The other is giving money to those
institutions that exists mostly through community funds. Such institutions
are a vital component of any Torah community. To be sure all efforts to
maximize helping out the poor or to support the various Mosdos should be
encouraged and executed. I am not sure whether the latter qualifies as
Tzedaka but the demands on the individual for both types of donations
are constant. The question arises how do we allocate funds to both? Do
we give in equal percentages? Do we give more to the poor? ...more to the
various Mosdos? One thing is certain. Whatever we give to either is rarely
enough. Most Aniyim still reamin Aniyim even after they recieve Tzedaka
funds and most Mosdos run deficits even after their major fund-raising
events. So, I am in agreement with you as to doing all we can to maximize
the amount of donations by any and all individuals.

But individual funds are limited and pressuring people to give beyond
their means is not appropriate. For example, young Torah observant
families even with relatively decent incomes still struggle with finances
when looking to buy a house. There education expenses alone are enourmous
even after scholarships are awarded. If they are subjected to only one
view WRT to Tzedaka, that of requiring them to give Maasar Kesafim, it
can effectively eliminate any hope of ever buying a home. This doesn't
mean that we should discourage a young family to give Maasar Kesafim,
if they so choose. In fact it MAY be apprpriate to encourage it. But it
is unfair not to inform them that there is a legitimate Psak mentioned
by many Poskim that the concept of Maasar Kesafim is not universally
held to be a Chiuv... that there is a legitimate Shita that says that
it is only Mihaga D'Alama.

HM


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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:52:41 +0200
From: "Rn Rena Freedenberg" <f...@actcom.co.il>
Subject:
RE: Did Yitzchok Avinu Speak Rechilus?


>> Both Targum and Rashi translate 'bemirmoh' - as 'bechochmo'...

> Ain hachi nami but that doesn't mean it was not (at least 
> avak) rechilus. You wouldn't have to be a rocket scientist 
> to figure out that hearing that would make Eisav angry at Yaakov.

So maybe emet is more important than fear of avak rechilus? Maybe there
was tachlis?

Actually, there was a definite tachlis. Eisav was due to get the bracha
and then all of a sudden Eisav shows up and his father can't give it to
him. What would you have had him say; oh, uh, I just changed my mind? Of
course not. Yitzchok avinu had to tell his son the truth because he
had to explain to his son Eisav why he wasn't getting the bracha he
was expecting.

Yes, I would suppose that Yitzchak avinu knew that this would not
make Eisav happy but emet is Torah and Torah is emet and he had to
be truthful. Since Ya'akov was deserving of the bracha and deserving
of being protected from death, Hashem protected him and he went on to
father the 12 shtachim and to fulfill his mission in this world.

Nireh li that the avos understood very well that Hashem runs the world
and that they are just here to do what they were put here for and Hashem
is more than capable of taking care of the rest. Yitzchak's job was to
give over the bracha. Hashem's job was to protect Ya'akov after he got
the bracha that his brother was expecting.

 --Rena 


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