Avodah Mailing List

Volume 06 : Number 009

Tuesday, October 10 2000

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 13:24:39 +1000
From: SBA <sba@blaze.net.au>
Maariv Motzoei Shabbos

The Kitzur Shulchan Oruch brings (96:10) <also the Remoh 293:3> that when
saying V'Hu Rachum and Borchu on Motzoei Shabbos it should be dragged out
to be 'mosif mechol al hakodesh'. I remember hearing that the 'V"hu-u-u-u
Rachum' is dragged out to lengthen the respite of those poor souls who
will shortly be returning to Gehenom.

The Sharei Tshuva there (sk2) writes bshem the BHG - that by dragging
out the "Boruch Hashem Hamevoroch L'V" we save ourselves from damages
(m'hzeiko) during the coming week and b'shem Rav Hai Gaon that it is
a proven Kabbolo that one will have Hatzlocho if he is maarich Boruch
Hashem Hamevoroch on Motzoei Shabbos.

...Just thought I'd pass on an easy-to-be-mekayem Segula (from excellent
sources) to all.


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Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 13:31:09 +1000
From: SBA <sba@blaze.net.au>
seforim niftachim

> From: Gershon Dubin
>         We ask, in Avinu Malkenu,  to be written in many different
> seforim.  What is the source of all these or is it just an idiomatic
> expression?  The only seforim I am aware of are the shelosha seforim
> niftachim,  tzadikim, resha'im and beinonim.

Interesting question.
The only place I have seen this mentioned (till now) is the Siddur Otzar
Hat'filos in the peirsuh 'Achris Lesholom" via a Zohar - Ayin Shom,
and the Peirush Etz Yosef (even more intriguing) as he explains Sefer
Chaim is Bereishis, S. Geulah Veyshuah is Shmos, Parnoso V'Chalkolo is
Bamidbor, Zechuyos is Dvorim and Slicho u'Mechilo is Vayikro. A"S- and
a good pshat will be appreciated by all. (I mean, why are we asking to
be writtten into the Chamisho Chumeshei Torah??)


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Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:53:38 +0200
From: "Avraham (avi) and pnina parnes" <avparnes@internet-zahav.net>

I was catching up on avodah mot"z and want to put in two cents regarding
a couple of issues before I sugn off for a while (see areivim post)

1) R Carl brought a quetion that there is lichora chiyuv simcha on r"h
and y"k because of the halacha of ksut nekiya on y"k. This halacha is
due to the status of mikra kodesh which is seperatefrom chiyuv simcha.

2) Regarding Rw"p comment on major key tune for ashamnu. Proffessor
Sholom Rozenberg wrote in this weeks Shabbat beshabbato that frum Jews
are the only ones who can be baaley aveira. an athiest can not "sin"
people who follow Rabbis who decide that certain aveirot no longer hold
can also not be considered Baal aveirah. Only We frum Jews can feel
guilt at sinning and say ashamnu, Ashranu that we know what is right
and can feel guilt. That is the reason for Simcha at viduy.


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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 22:54:15 -0400
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@juno.com>
Fish on Rosh Hashanah/simcha

From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
> What do we mean when we are mechayeiv [basar] viyayin?

        From Rav Yaakov Kamenetsky's sefer on Shulchan Aruch:

"It is proper to be machmir and drink wine each day of Chol Hamoed and in
each seudah (possibly even the morning seudah [breakfast? gd]), since
only in this way is one mekayem the mitzvah of simcha lechol hadei'os.
Venir'eh that grape juice is included in wine for this purpose. It is
also proper to be machmir to eat a meat meal each day of Yom Tov and Chol
Hamoed (and even if someone does not enjoy meat, still the mitzvah of
simcha can only be done with meat). And he is not yotze with basar of,
but one needs basar beheima davka.


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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:00:42 -0400
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@juno.com>

The syntax of the posuk of tashlich always bothered me: we say "yashuv
yerachameinu (first person-us), yichbosh avonosenu (first person), vesashlich
bimtzulos yam kal chatosam (third person-their chatoim).

It recently occured to me to explain this based upon the idea that a
baal teshuva is no longer the person he was, but someone else who bears
no responsibility for those aveiros done before his teshuva, Rambam etc.
Therefore, when OUR avonos have been 'kevushim" (peshat on this word is
invited), it becomes someone else's chatoim that are thrown away.

However, while writing this I had another problem with syntax: we start
with third person referring to HKB"H (yashuv), continue in third person
(yerachamenu) and proceed to second person (vesashlich). Perhaps a process
of the baal teshuva coming closer to HKB"H and being now able to address
Him in a more familiar way?



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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:41:19 -0400
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@juno.com>
Birchos HaTorah

From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
> Perhaps because the Jews before galus had Torah, but their Torah 
> wasn't an ohr for them.

        This is very nice.  Now,  as they used to say in the old days, 
"fier ois": how do you explain the simcha, soson viykor, as things
which they had but didn't appreciate?


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Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:59:01 EDT
From: C1A1Brown@aol.com
Re: Fish on Rosh Hashanah/simcha

> It is also proper to be machmir to eat a meat meal each day of Yom
> Tov and Chol Hamoed (and even if someone does not enjoy meat, still the
> mitzvah of simcha can only be done with meat). And he is not yotze with
> basar of, but one needs basar beheima davka.

The counter position is shitas haRan (Sukah 4th perek) ain simcha ela
b'basar is a 'mitzva min hamuvchar' and is not me'akev. 2) also simcha
b'zman hazeh may only be derabbana (Tos MK 14), which may mitigate how
machmir you want to be for shitos rishonim who are cholek on the Ran.

Bottom line is that this is a machlokes achronim.  

Gmar chasima tova

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