Avodah Mailing List

Volume 05 : Number 018

Thursday, April 13 2000

< Previous Next >
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: ben waxman <benwaxman55@yahoo.com>
Subject:
spelt matza


If anyone of the Israeli participants knows where I
can buy SPELT matza, please inform me ASAP.  My wife
is allergic to wheat and oats.

I can be reached at this email address, at
02-589-9822, or at 02-996-3240.  Just say that you are
calling about spelt matzahs.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:19:27 -0400
From: Sammy Ominsky <sambo@charm.net>
Subject:
Re: sefardim and ashkenazim


Eli Turkel wrote:


> Rav of Raanana who was completely unaware of conservatives and assumed they
> were similarly to MO (this Rav is charedi). It took many years to convince him
> that many Conservatives don't believe in Torah min Hashamayim or Shulchan Arukh.


Now I have to admit my shock. I didn't know these things either. 

Do Conservatives pulicize this information? Where is it documented? Or
is it just a perception you have? My wife's family has some very active
Conservative branches, and they come occasionally for Shabbat. I admit
that the subject of whether Torah is min Hashamaim never came up, but as
for S"A, it just seems that their level of mizvah observance is not "up
to snuff". Are you saying they reject the entire concept of codification
of mizvot and thew performance thereof? That they *wouldn't* be shomrei
mizvot if they understood (read: were taught properly)?

Though I must ask what's to "believe" about the S"A? That it's also min
Hashamaim?

As for proper teaching, and the effect it can have on "simple" Jews,
look at the result of Shas' schools. Many of the hiloni children who go
there DO go to shul on Shabbat, marry Jewish women, and send their kids
to religious schools. And quite a significant portion become hozrei
betshuvah at some point. Would proper education by qualified educators
do the same for Conservatives, or sre they actually taught that we don't
keep mizvot, period?

Because from the Conservative people I interact with, I get the feeling
that they just don't *know*. That their Judaism is a *thing*, not the
actual definition of who they are. 

I also get the feeling that many other list-members don't interact with
Conservative Jews very often, if at all.


---sam


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:17:54 -0500
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject:
The Litvak's Credo


This line just struck me this morning while learning Kes. 9 in DY (alright,
we're behind - but not as much as we were!).

":The three fundamental principles of Judaism? Forget about G-d, Torah and
Israel, they're Rov, Safek and Chazaka!"

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila    ygb@aishdas.org


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:35:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Harry Maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: The "Children at Risk" issues of the Jewish Observer


--- Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> The mod-O problem is very different. Thinking back
> to my American mod-O peers
> who left O, the problem seems more to be an
> inability to convey mod-O as an
> ideal, and not as a compromise. It therefore fails
> to inspire loyalty. 

I seem to remember Dr.Norman Lamm making a similiar
point in one of his many essays on the subject. IIRC
his point was that Centrism  (his choice of lablel
versus MO) should not be seen as a compromise, or
lifestyle choice, but it should be a proactive ideal
which one should support L'chatchila.

In any case the problems in chinuch today are
widespread accross the entire spectrum of Orthodoxy.
Chinuch should not be looked at only in the context of
which school one sends their children to, or what is
taught, or who is teaching, or how qualified the
teacher is, etc. etc. Chinuch begins in the home. The
most imporatnt influence on the young mind is the
parent.  The child absorbs attitudes from his/her
parents from the earliest age of cognition and
continues to absorb it throughout his tenure in
his/her parents home.  It is not only what we as
parents teach our kids directly it is how we live our
lives. Children learn more by example than by the
word. How much integrity one has in buisness, how one
treats his/her spouse, parental temperment... is the
dominant parent a dogmatic disciplinarian or is he/she
a an overly permissive indulgent one? Is there Shalom
Bayis or constant conflict in the house. All of these
things impact the child long before he spends his
first day in kindergarden. Then there is the peer
group of both the parents (which the kids observe) and
the child's own peer group.  The factors which
contribute to the problem are virtually endless and
are pervasive prior to the childs formal entry into
the school system.

Many scenarios could be described that are totally
unrelated to eachother which could lead a child
astray. It's entirely possible for one child to leave
the fold because the quality of his home life is so
poor that he is just looking for any way out. Maybe he
is a victim of child beating or mental abuse. Maybe he
is just a victim of serious neglect. It is entirely
possible that the abuse is so subtle that it is almost
imperceptable to the casual observer, yet it's harm
can be irreperable.

It certainly doesn't matter whether the home is MO or
RW.  Nor does it matter on exposure to the negative
influences of the surrounding culture. Proprely raised
children will be able to deal appropriately with these
influences.  But improperly raised children will find
these influences to be the "escape" they think they
are looking for when they mistakenly blame religion
for their misfortune.  The power and draw from the
"other side of the tracks" can be irresistable for a
child who has experienced either neglect or abuse. 

The role of the school becomes all important in the
life of a child at risk. Although the school cannot
quick fix the problem, teachers needs to become
trained to recognize symptoms of neglect or abuse at
the earliest possible age of their students.  Schools
then need to have programs with proffesionals who are
specially trained to help these kids. The school
should also realize that their own influence on the
child at risk is at best secondary. Usually, by the
time the symptons become manifest, the child has been
indoctrinated by his peers or the dominant culture,
and it is nigh impossible to change his/her heart or
mind. But that does not absolve the school of
responsibilty to deal with it in the most effective
way it can, which requires a lot of specialized, state
of the art, training.

This is where the system has failed in the past.
Historically, the problem child  was just jettisoned
out of system.  The thinking was the problem child was
just a bad seed... get rid of him/her before he/she
spoils the rest of the class/school.  These kids left
Yidishkeit.

I'm glad to see that there is some reassesment on the
part of institutional chinuch and that at least they
are recognizing the problem.

Just some random thoughts

HM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:33:33 -0400
From: Gil.Student@citicorp.com
Subject:
Re: Children in Distress / Moridim Kippah


>>Many Jewish teens are not getting adequate answers to their questions 
(questions that all teens have) about identity, purpose, guidance, etc.>>

My experience talking to a number of "drop outs" in Brooklyn is that they are 
very frum in their hashkafos - they believe all the right things - but they 
would rather sin and have fun than be serious about life.  They don't want to 
remain non-frum their whole lives and they certainly don't want their children 
to be non-frum.  They are just having fun while they are young and plan to 
become frummer when they get older.  Of course, human nature being what it is, 
this plan generally never works out and once they are not shomer mitzvos it is 
very difficult to go back.  However, teaching more or different information is 
not what needs to be done.  These children need to have their EMOTIONAL needs 
attended to, not their INTELLECTUAL needs.  Most of them come from divorced or 
otherwise dysfunctional homes where they did not receive enough attention or 
received the wrong kind of attention.

Gil Student
gil.student@citicorp.com


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:51:26 +0200
From: "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il>
Subject:
Re: Avodah V5 #16


On 13 Apr 00, at 18:02, Shoshana L. Boublil wrote:

> 
> 
> > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:06:58 +0200
> > From: "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il>
> > Subject: Re: The "Children at Risk" issues of the Jewish Observer
> >
> > On 13 Apr 00, at 7:34, Micha Berger wrote:
> >
> > > However, as I said last time you quoted this statistic, the number
> you give
> > > is not that meaningful. It sounds like you're saying 20% of those
> raised
> > > DL leave Orthodoxy. However, what the numbers really say is that
> 20% of those
> > > in a DL school, including those who are not from observant homes,
> do so.
> > > Without knowing what fraction of those 20% were ever Orthodox (and
> how would
> > > one define that?), I don't know what to make of the number.
> >
> > In Israel, non-observant parents would not be sending their children
> > to DL schools (unless they were Sfardim sending their children to
> > Shas schools). I think it's safe to assume that those 20% who
> > dropped out of the DL schools came from DL homes.
> 
> Excuse me, Carl, but this simply not true.  Going back to when I was
> in elementary school in Petah Tikva, at least 20% of the class were
> not religious, and I think the percentage was larger.  Of course this
> included a high percentage of Sephardi kids whose parents kept Niddah
> and Kashrut -- in the home, and Shabbat to a limited extent (shul +
> driving and tv).
> In highschool, the percentages didn't change by much.
> 
> Even today, in my youngest daughter's class there are at least 10%
> whose fathers don't wear kippot, and the percentage could be higher (I
> don't know all the parents).

I think you're thinking of MaMaD's and I'm thinking of private 
schools. In most of the private schools (at least in Yerushalayim), 
you will not find kids whose fathers don't wear kippot. I don't think 
that survey differentiated between the two (but then I only heard it 
third hand and did not see it in writing, so I don't really know).

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:55:08 +0200
From: "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il>
Subject:
Re: The "Children at Risk" issues of the Jewish Observer


On 13 Apr 00, at 9:31, Micha Berger wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 13, 2000 at 03:06:58PM +0200, Carl M. Sherer wrote:
> :                             But I don't think you can compare an 
> : MO child becoming Charedi (which in its various stripes is the only 
> : other "branch of the fruhm community" that I know) to an MO child 
> : becoming not fruhm.
> 
> I'm not comparing the kids, I'm suggesting that they have similar motivations.

Certainly not to the extent that the child of MO parents sees MO 
as a compromise and decides to become Charedi because that 
makes him "more" fruhm.

> :                     A child of MO parents who becomes Charedi 
> : (or vice versa) is generally not cut off from the parents or from their 
> : former peers as is a child who opts out altogether. Let alone a child 
> : who not only drops out of fruhm society but out of society in 
> : general.
> 
> I know of a case here in the US (where things may be different) where the
> parents are more disappointed in the child who left the derech than the
> one who ended up "all farchnukt" in kollel, but they have less of a problem
> maintaining a relationship with the former.

I don't doubt there are cases like that. I think it depends how much 
M was in the parents' MO. In my NCSY days we had parents who 
were more comfortable with the kids who married non-Jews than 
they were with the kids who became fruhm.

> :             I think our children who leave O R"L are doing so out of 
> : boredom with O's strictures and an inability to feel and appreciate 
> : their meaning. I don't think they're leaving MO because they feel 
> : too cut off from Charedim or vice versa.
> 
> Yehudah Poch said the same. I was suggesting that there are many kids who
> are unable to feel and appreciate the lifestyle they were raised in but who
> would be more reachable if they had an opportunity to feel and appreciate
> other forms of O. The Yeshivish kid who lacks the ability to sit and learn
> may find his answers in Chassidus (to bring a third community into the
> picture). 

Now there's an idea no one is encouraging but maybe we ought to 
think about....

> :                                        OTOH, I doubt telling him 
> : to be an "ehrlicher yid" is going to change his attitude a whole lot 
> : either. I'm not sure the father is wrong in that respect.
> 
> Telling him, no. Teaching him, perhaps. But by this point he was already
> told that the ideal is "vehigisah bo yomam valaylah", and "balebatishe
> questions" are foolish ones. What does that say about ba'alei bayis?

I don't have a problem with telling him that v'hagisa bo is the ideal 
so long as we also tell him that many (probably even most) cannot 
live up to that ideal. I do have a problem with telling him that 
baalebatish questions are foolish ones. 

One of the Desslerian effects here is the notion that being in 
Yeshiva is all or nothing. People who are sitting and learning have a 
difficult time with valuing the learning of a baalebus who has a 
seder every day. I don't know how true that is in America, but it is 
definitely true here. To me, what is most indicative of that is the 
extent to which the Siyum HaShas here was played up (more 
accurately - not played up) a couple of years ago. It was held in 
Yad Eliayahu - a place that seats about half of what Madison 
Square Garden seats. Tickets went on sale about a week or two 
before. And it was a baalegan. I was sorry that was the Siyum 
HaShas my sons got to see and not the one I attended in New 
York seven years before. IY"H I hope to use frequent flier miles to 
come to the States for the next one.

> :                    That you can cut your children off from every bit 
> : of "pernicious" outside influence and still R"L have them go off the 
> : derech.
> 
> But you should still do what best influences the odds. Which may not be
> cutting off all influence. A kid who thirsts for a broader range of
> experiences would find such a lifestyle stifling. Do we really want him
> sneaking to the library behind our backs?

Of course not. These things are always less likely to cause 
problems if the parents exercise some control without stifling.

> : Someone anonymously sent me emails telling me about kids being 
> : arrested for drug dealing in shuls in Boro Park and Monsey. 
> 
> In the case of Monsey, there was a HUGE campaign in the Chassidishe communities
> to make it clear that turning in a drug dealer isn't being oveir on mesirah.
> B"H it worked.

Was this someone who was pushing drugs within the fruhm 
community? Hashem yerachem....

-- Carl

P.S. Let me ask you all something. What do you all tell your kids if 
they ask you what is important in life? Do you have a one or two 
line sound bite and if so what is it? I have one and all of my older 
kids know it well, but I want to see what the rest of you say first 
before I give you mine.


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:02:54 PDT
From: "aviva fee" <aviva613@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Why is a toupee for a man not considered begged ishah?


Hello:

Why is a toupee for a man not considered begged ishah?

Why should a toupee for a man be any better/worse than pants on a woman?

The MB states that while a man may wear a toupee, it is nonetheless moris 
eyin to ea w/ a toupee but w/o a kippa.

/af


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:11:20 -0500
From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Re: The "Children at Risk" issues of the Jewish Observer


On Thu, Apr 13, 2000 at 07:55:08PM +0200, Carl M. Sherer wrote:
: P.S. Let me ask you all something. What do you all tell your kids if 
: they ask you what is important in life?

Contantly working to improve three things: one's self, one's relationship
with HKBH, and one's relationship with others. Which is why I quote Derech
haChaim 1:2 so often, because that's his peshat in Torah, Avodah
and Gemillus Chassadim. The Charter for haOlim seems to be structured
around this understanding of the triad as well.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 12-Apr-00: Revi'i, Metzora
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 23b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 25


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:13:22 -0500
From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Re: Why is a toupee for a man not considered begged ishah?


On Thu, Apr 13, 2000 at 11:02:54AM -0700, aviva fee wrote:
: Why is a toupee for a man not considered begged ishah?

If it's cut in a man's style, and enough men wear them, why would it be?
(Similarly, men's rings.)

: Why should a toupee for a man be any better/worse than pants on a woman?

It's unclear that the problem with pants is begged ish. I thought it was
tz'nius, as it gives too much information about the location of particular
points of anatomical structure.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 12-Apr-00: Revi'i, Metzora
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 23b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 25


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:22:10 -0500
From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Re: The Litvak's Credo


On Thu, Apr 13, 2000 at 11:17:54AM -0500, Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer wrote:
: This line just struck me this morning while learning Kes. 9 in DY (alright,
: we're behind - but not as much as we were!).

: "The three fundamental principles of Judaism? Forget about G-d, Torah and
: Israel, they're Rov, Safek and Chazaka!"

Don't laugh, I just argued something similar in another forum. Yahadus may
be founded on HKBH, Creation, Sinai and the Merkavah, but my belief isn't. My
belief in Yahadus is emunah -- which I'm defining almost as trust, reliability
-- built on how frequently it works lima'aseh, how often a chidush in one
inyan sheds light on something totally unrelated, etc...

There is a reason why kiruv is about visiting for a Shabbos and not philosophy
texts.

Particularly bizman hazeh, where the Kuzari's argument from masorah is weak.
To most Jews, our tradition does sound like an outsider telling me what
my ancestors went through. IOW, while the Rihal argued for tradition over
philosophy, if it weren't for first-hand experience with the results of that
tradition, why would I believe it, either?

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 12-Apr-00: Revi'i, Metzora
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 23b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 25


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:52:21 -0400
From: Gil.Student@citicorp.com
Subject:
The Nature of Sin (was Interesting to Note)


>>>> BTW it's interesting to note that the first 3 letters of Sarid's name
>>>> in Hebew are RT for "Shem Reshoim Yirkov."

>>I had never before noticed this, perhaps because Sarid is spelled with a "sin"
rather than a "shin."

I did not miss Rabbi Carmy's eloquent point.  However, me'inyan le'inyan be'oso 
inyan, I was once told by R. Avi Sarfati that Chazal read "sin"s as kesiv "shin"
ukeri "sin" which is why there are so many derashahs that turn a "sin" into a 
"shin" (they are darshening the kesiv).  I'm sure we can all brainstorm to come 
up with a few.  All I can think of right now is from the word "siSteh" (as in 
sotah) chazal darshened that no on sins without have a "ruach SHetus".  I'm sure
I've seen many more of these.

Gil Student
gil.student@citicorp.com


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:39:36 +0200
From: "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il>
Subject:
First Annual Avodah Pesach Get Together in Israel


Adina and I are pleased to invite those list members who will be in 
Eretz Yisrael for Chag HaPesach ha'ba aleinu le'tova to the First 
Annual Avodah Pesach Get Together in Israel. The get together will 
IY"H be held in our home, on the fifth day of Chol HaMoed, 
between 10:00 A.M. and 1:00 P.M. (For those who are curious 
about the timing, we did not want to take one of the two days 
people can potentially go on trips with their families, and we figured 
that although this is Erev Chag, it is a long day). 

You are welcome to bring your children as well - we have a large 
backyard, a park next door and a park across the street.

We live in Yerushalayim. I am reluctant to put our address, 
telephone number and directions to our home on an archiveable 
format, but if you send me private email to this address, I will be 
glad to send you all the details. 

Also, if you do not eat gebroks, please let me know and we will try 
bli neder to have something other than water available for you :-) 
(My wife's family does not eat gebroks, so traditionally we do have 
specifically non-gebroks food in the house). 

We hope IY"H to have a special guest from the US (Rav Yosef Gavriel 
Bechhofer), and one of my sons has made some noises about making 
a siyum in honor of the occasion.

RSVP no later than 13 Nissan if you plan to come. IY"H I do not 
plan to be in the office during Pesach.

Chag Kasher v'Sameyach.

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:49:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: ben waxman <benwaxman55@yahoo.com>
Subject:
dropouts


i hesitate to write the following suggestion but here
goes.  one person here has suggested that one of the
the reasons that people leave frumkeit is what goes on
in the home.  i would like to expound on that idea.

there is tremendous social pressure in the dati world
to have a large family.  for various reasons.

however i have seen cases where the parents couldn't
handle have so many kids.  they would have been much
better off simply have 2, 3 kids and then stopping.  i
can think of one case where they (the parents) knew
that that was the case.  they simply did not have the
emotional resources needed to deal with more children.

I would suggest that in more than a few families it
would be much wiser to use birth control, limit the
number of children, and devote whatever limited
energies that the parents have to those children.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 21:34:41 +0200
From: "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il>
Subject:
Re: The "Children at Risk" issues of the Jewish Observer


On 13 Apr 00, at 13:11, Micha Berger wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 13, 2000 at 07:55:08PM +0200, Carl M. Sherer wrote:
> : P.S. Let me ask you all something. What do you all tell your kids if 
> : they ask you what is important in life?
> 
> Contantly working to improve three things: one's self, one's relationship
> with HKBH, and one's relationship with others. Which is why I quote Derech
> haChaim 1:2 so often, because that's his peshat in Torah, Avodah
> and Gemillus Chassadim. The Charter for haOlim seems to be structured
> around this understanding of the triad as well.

How young do you think you can start giving them this rather deep 
formula? My credo to my children is similar, but I put it in more 
concrete terms, and I am still working on finding a Gmillus 
Chasadim that means something more than putting a shekel in the 
pushka every day.

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:02:28 -0500
From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org>
Subject:
Re: The "Children at Risk" issues of the Jewish Observer


On Thu, Apr 13, 2000 at 09:34:41PM +0200, Carl M. Sherer wrote:
: How young do you think you can start giving them this rather deep 
: formula? My credo to my children is similar, but I put it in more 
: concrete terms, and I am still working on finding a Gmillus 
: Chasadim that means something more than putting a shekel in the 
: pushka every day.

I do as well, when they're younger. But by the time they can learn on their
own without a grownup I think they can understand the list of: You, G-d,
and other people. And I articulate it frequently to my preteens.

BTW, I prefer pushing berachos rather than davening -- probably because
most of my kids aren't old enough to find the place in the siddur for the
few things they know yet. Also, berachos are constant.

As for chessed, my kids are up to learning about sharing -- both objects
and right-of-way.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 12-Apr-00: Revi'i, Metzora
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 23b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Melachim-II 25


Go to top.

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:08:32 +0200
From: "Shoshana L. Boublil" <toramada@zahav.net.il>
Subject:
Re: Rav Dessler's Shita on Chinuch


> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:59:45 -0500
> From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer"
<sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
> Subject: Rav Dessler's Shita on Chinuch
[del for bw]

> BTW, a fascinating tidbit about the CI, although I am not 100% sure
I credit
> it, is that the former RY at Sha'alvim told us that he himself heard
the CI
> say that he could not accept that the fledgling State of Israel
would last
> more than ten years. V'duk.

A different tale I heard from my FIL, who personally knew Rav Hertzog
Z"L.

When the Germans were known to be closing in on Israel, Rav Hertzog,
who was Chief Rabbi of Israel at the time (elected ~1935), was urged
to leave the country and go to England.

Rav Hertzog pored over the books all night, and came back in the
morning and told them:  Churban Bayit Sh'lishi -- Lo YiHiye.  And he
stayed.

Shortly afterwards the Germans were halted before entering the Land of
Israel.

Years later, when my husband was invited to present one of his books
to the then President Hertzog, my FIL repeated the story to him -- and
President Hertzog confirmed it.

Chag Kasher Ve'Same'ach,

Shoshana L.  Boublil

>
> Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
> http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila    ygb@aishdas.org


Go to top.


********************


[ Distributed to the Avodah mailing list, digested version.                   ]
[ To post: mail to avodah@aishdas.org                                         ]
[ For back issues: mail "get avodah-digest vXX.nYYY" to majordomo@aishdas.org ]
[ or, the archive can be found at http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/              ]
[ For general requests: mail the word "help" to majordomo@aishdas.org         ]

< Previous Next >