Avodah Mailing List
Volume 04 : Number 213
Sunday, December 26 1999
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 00:00:38 +0200
From: "Mrs. Gila Atwood" <gatwood@netvision.net.il>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Slap in the Face
>
> How many of you know, that just last week, the Arab authority in charge of
> our holiest site desecrated the holy grounds where our Batei Mikdash once
> stood. In the most dishonest fashion, in the middle of the night, the Wakf
> threw over 100 trucks of holy ground from Har Habayit into Jerusalem
dumps,
> and no one can stop it.
Shavua tov, members of Avodah,
It's understandable that some of you are put off by the emotional intensity
and style of the above post. But please let's not throw away the baby with
the bathwater. For those of you far away from the scene- please try to see
it through the eyes of those of us who are just "up the road".
It hurts. It hurts that the Waqf has control of Har haBayit. We should
never let ourselves become numbed to that. Even if we say it's not the
actual dirt that has kedusha, but we're talking about the PLACE where the
Beis haMikdash stood. Probably most or all of the excavation is not
happening on the exact site, but we don't know for sure. Let's please cry
for Jerusalem when we daven those parts of Tefila which mention the Beis
haMikdash.
Mrs. GA
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:01:17 -0500
From: "S Klagsbrun" <S.Klagsbrun@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Avodah V4 #212
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 08:11:39 +0200
From: "Akiva Atwood" <atwood@netvision.net.il>
Subject: RE: Avodah V4 #210
>lthough as an adult in a free country you do have the right to indulge in
>the fantasy that your naive suggestion for reversal of the obscenity
>perpetuated under the guise of Din in the case cited by Mr. Schwartz would
Halacha forbids (with a few exceptions) accepting as truth anything told by
only *one* person (Mr. Schwartz in this case).
*Especially* when that person is an involved party.
> You may inadvertently cause someone to seek justice in a Bais
> Din, during
> the course of which a shtar birurin will usually be signed,
> permanently
> diminishing their ability to seek redress through a court of
> law.
Beis Din -- it's not just a good idea, it's *the law*.
Akiva
Oh, and might I suggest "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale
Carnegie?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671723650/o/qid=946015335/sr=8-2/002
- -1056204-3880242
I do not recall asking for your p'sak din, but I will keep it handy in case
one ever opens in North America.
Go to top.
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 18:10:20 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: The use of laser for Eruv
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No.
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
----- Original Message -----=20
From: The Ellituv Family=20
To: avodah@aishdas.org=20
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 1999 11:41 AM
Subject: The use of laser for Eruv
Is one able to use a laser beam as an eruv?
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer<BR>Cong. Bais =
Tefila, 3555=20
W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila">http://www.aishdas.org/baistef=
ila</A> =20
<A href=3D"mailto:ygb@aishdas.org">ygb@aishdas.org</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:ellituv@ninja.org.uk" =
title=3Dellituv@ninja.org.uk>The Ellituv=20
Family</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:avodah@aishdas.org"=20
title=3Davodah@aishdas.org>avodah@aishdas.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 25, =
1999 11:41=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> The use of laser for =
Eruv</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is one able to use a laser beam as an=20
eruv?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 18:09:59 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: problem kids
As R' Steve Katz and R' Herschel Maryles rarely agree on anything in Daf
Yomi, it is nice to see them agre on Avodah :-).
I must, however, provide what I believe is called a "wet towel".
When I was in Sha'alvim, the Rosh Yeshiva told us that he once asked RSZ
Auerbach if he was required to maintain in the Sha'alvim Kollel avreichim
that would put in their "9-5", but were not exemplary scholars nor destined
to become such. RSZA answered in the affirmative, that in our day and age it
is necessary to provide near universal access to Kollel (to those who seek
it) "kdei she'la'rechov yihyeh tzura".
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
----- Original Message -----
> In a message dated 12/24/99 3:38:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> katzco@sprintmail.com writes:
>
> << But for every young man who
> wants to sit in a BM and be supported, that's an entirely different
story. In
> that regard RHM is on target.
> Shabbat Shalom
> steve >>
Go to top.
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:15:44 -0500
From: "S Klagsbrun" <S.Klagsbrun@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Avodah V4 #212
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 08:11:39 +0200
From: "Akiva Atwood" <atwood@netvision.net.il>
Subject: RE: Avodah V4 #210
>lthough as an adult in a free country you do have the right to indulge in
>the fantasy that your naive suggestion for reversal of the obscenity
>perpetuated under the guise of Din in the case cited by Mr. Schwartz would
Halacha forbids (with a few exceptions) accepting as truth anything told by
only *one* person (Mr. Schwartz in this case).
*Especially* when that person is an involved party.
Since Mr. Schwartz did not name nmes, there is not a shailo of loshon harah
to be asked. As for the fact that the state of 'botai din' in general is
one of complete perversion, corruption, ineptness and often well intentioned
naiveté, d'vorim hayiduim b'alma are generally exempt from the rules of
lashon harah.
If one were to feel the (lemming-like) need to hold open some doubt as to
the severity of this situation, one should do so for themselves, not build
fantastic images of available justice to be shared with unfortunate
litigants inexperienced enough in real-world events to understand the nature
of these fantasies.
I personally heard a relative berated by a leading rabbinic figure (from
Boro - Park, ir hakodesh. no less) as follows: "your own Mother! Your own
mother you would allow to go to a bais din?!" (the litigant had been granted
a heter to go to civil court and her husband ws now prepared to go to a
'bais din')
Go to top.
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:29:29 -0500
From: "S Klagsbrun" <S.Klagsbrun@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Avodah V4 #212
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 11:28:51 +0200
From: "Mrs. Gila Atwood" <gatwood@netvision.net.il>
Subject: Re: Avodah V4 #210
------------------------------
Hiding? Chalila! On the contrary- we're interesting in moving towards
constructive solutions with wisdom, discretion and courage.
Let's take the halachos of loshon hara further. In a case where a proved
guilty party will definitely not listen we are not obliged to approach him
directly. In some cases publication can do more harm than good. Daniel
Schwartz is concerned about libel suits.
If that is a valid concern, it may
be da'as Torah to advise people davka not to go to a particular Beis Din
which has PROVEN to be corrupt.
Da'as torah???????
Obviously it can't end there- appropriate
discrete action must be taken. "Where there is no man- be a man".
Let's also not be naive re the litigants. Many parties are simply looking
for the best deal. In some cases they NEED a better deal than the Beis Din
might give them, In other cases they just stand to gain more money or lose
less- a powerful incentive. Where's the respect for din Torah in such
cases? In the former cases- again- make a real appeal to the relevant
authorities- or take some other appropriate action.
In the case of child support a man may prefer the secular court since there
he will be obligated to give according to his earnings rather than according
to his x wife's needs. I've heard of lawyers advising a man to lose his job
so that his payments will be less. I suppose a lot depends on where you are
and who you're dealing with- each case is going to be different. How much
can a Beis Din do al pi halacha to keep clients within the bounds of Din
Torah? This is worth exploring. If you're on site and you know for sure
they're going outside these bounds, then again- get organized & do
something specific about it. "Raising awareness" by armchair blanket
condemnations is not the real solution.
I can assure you (as can Mr. Schwartz and R' Micha B that my statements are
NOT armchair blanket condemnations. They are facts which although presented
in a closed forum have been coached in diplomatic terms in comparison to the
actual situation.
In terms of Yom Kippur and yiras chet- list members should be very careful
of general accusations of corruption on the part of Batei Dinim and
Rebbeim.
My machzor has an al chait for yoatznu rah. 15 years of experience in this
area has proven to me that refering anyone to an American 'bis din'
qualifies under this offense.
A good and peaceful Shabbos. Mrs. GA
>
>
If you think corruption on the part of 'bati dinim' and 'rabbonim' is an
"accusation", you have obviously been blessed. Mr. SK
BTW, it was a very good and peaceful one. They all are.
Go to top.
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 19:45:47 -0500
From: Rabbi Yosef Blau <yblau@idt.net>
Subject: limud hatorah and elitism
The following story was told me by the late Rabbi Moshe Besdin Z.T.L.
Rav Baruch Ber came to America to raise money for his yeshiva in
Kamenetz. He made an appeal in Rabbi Besdin's father's shul. He
acknowledged that the shul had its own Hebrew school to support but
pointed out that the mitzvah of talmud torah differs from all other
mitzvos. If there is only enough money to buy one pair of tefillin the
quality of the performance of the mitzvah does not affect priority.
However the Talmud in Kedushin 29b discusses the case when there are
insufficient funds for both the father and son to learn and says that
the father's personal obligation to learn comes first. Rabbi Yehuda
adds that if the son is more likely to be successful in learning than
the father, the father should support the son's learning instead. The
Talmud then reports a case when the father realized that his son was not
understanding Abaye's shiur and asked the son to come back home and went
in his place. Rav Baruch Ber assured his audience that the learning in
Kamenetz is on a higher level than in Brooklyn.
The medrash in Vayikra Rabba 2;1 and Koheles Rabbosi 7;49 about one
thousand entering to mikra and one reaching horaah, describes the one
thousand becoming one hundred who reach the stage of Mishna and only ten
Gemara, before ending with the one achieving the level of Horaah. There
is no mention of all one thousand staying in the yeshiva in order to
make a group. The Maharsha in Sanhedrin 7a answers Tosphos's question
that there is a contradiction between the Talmud Shabbos 31a where the
first question asked after death is whether one conducted his business
affairs honestly and the Talmud in Sanhedrin 7a which says that the
judgment starts with Torah, by quoting this Medrash. The vast majority
who do not reach the end of the process are first asked about their
business dealings which occupy most of their time and only later if they
set aside time to study Torah. The Gemara in Sanhedrin refers to those
who do succeed and become the Talmidei Chachamim.
Sincerely yours,
Yosef Blau
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:50:04 -0600
From: Saul Weinreb <sweinr1@uic.edu>
Subject: Wedding dresses
R' Joel asks
"Most brides today marry in white which symbolises maidenhood. This tradition
started by the rich in sixteenth century. The tradition was given a boost by
Queen Victoria who chose to marry in white instead of silver which was the
traditional colour of Royal brides. Before the white dress brides wore their
best dress.
Does anyone know of an earlier Jewish tradition?"
I don't know but if I am not mistaken the einiklach of the Tzanzer Rav wear
pink dresses, and not white. I'm not sure why.
Shaul Weinreb
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:14:18 -0500
From: "Noah Witty" <nwitty@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: a humble pixel
I am happy that I was able to generate some thought on the topic. I am
troubled by RHM's assertion that a certain philosopher or the ba'al Tanya
"posited that all of our perceptions of corporealism are nothing more than
the mind of G-d.
The question is who thought of it first, Bishop Barkley or the Baal HaTanya?
I'm not sure when Barkley
lived."
My question is: "If that is a true statement of existence, what is it
exactly that obligates Jews to obey the Torah? It's all imaginary anyway."
I await your response (or that of anyone else).
NW
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:17:26 -0500
From: "Noah Witty" <nwitty@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Slap in the Face
R' Carl Sherer posted an essay concern apathy about the destruction of Har
Habayis and limited access to Hevron. RYGB apparently posted a fragment of
it and was troubled by it; something to do with Yeshayahu Leibowitz. Would
RYGBechhofer be kind enough to explicate the problem.
Thanks
NW
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:32:55 -0500
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@juno.com>
Subject: Kollel and sustenance
> From: harry maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Kollel and sustenance
<<the Desslarian philosophy of throwing a 1000 students into the grinder
in order to produce one Gadol.>>
Elef nichnasim lemikra...echad yotze lehoro'ah is not a Desslerian
formulation. Maybe the "grinder" was his chiddush <g>?
Gershon
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:37:08 -0500
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@juno.com>
Subject: Net Access
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
> Subject: Net Access
<<Question: Is koshernet a program that filters access to the
> Internet?
>
> If yes, then why don't some-one come up with a Kosher ISP instead.
>
> If a household's only access was via a kosher ISP, it would probably
> prevent more abuse than via a fileter or firewall that might be more
> circumventable.>>
I think you missed the point of the original question. If I pay for the
ISP, whether it's kosher or not (I don't know exactly what Koshernet is;
I have only seen it in advertisements), I control access.
Once ISP's become free, why should kids use the kosher one if they can
use whatever they want?
I am not suggesting that my kids or anyone else's is looking for or
would look for things on the web that they should not be; I am trying
for a refuah before the makkah.
Gershon
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:29:55 -0500
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@juno.com>
Subject: Bes Din
From: "S Klagsbrun" <S.Klagsbrun@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
> Subject: Re: Avodah V4 #210
<<I would urge you to cease perpetuating the myth that a just resolution
can be reached in adversarial situations through the use of Batai Dinim
anywhere in North America. You may inadvertently cause someone to seek
justice in a Bais Din, during the course of which a shtar birurin will
usually be signed, permanently diminishing their ability to seek redress
through a court of law. I would think that as a G-d fearing person you
would not want this on your conscience on Yom Kippur.>>
Saying blanket loshon horah on all batei din and all of the dayanim who
comprise them, amounting to a serious number of talmidei chachamim, is
an aveira I would not want on my conscience on Yom Kippur.
It is fairly well known that there are batei din that are problematic,
and Mr. Schwartz, being an attorney, may have special knowledge of this
that the rest of us do not. I assume Mr. Klagsbrun has like knowledge,
and is not simply engaging in gratuitious sniping aka hotzo'as shem rah.
How wonderful it would be if they used this knowledge to work toward a
solution rather than dragging all batei din through the mud, to what end
we can only speculate.
Gershon
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Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 00:16:51 EST
From: Joelirich@aol.com
Subject: Re: limud hatorah and elitism
In a message dated 12/25/99 7:48:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, yblau@idt.net
writes:
<< Rabbi Yehuda
adds that if the son is more likely to be successful in learning than
the father, the father should support the son's learning instead. The
Talmud then reports a case when the father realized that his son was not
understanding Abaye's shiur and asked the son to come back home and went
in his place. Rav Baruch Ber assured his audience that the learning in
Kamenetz is on a higher level than in Brooklyn. >>
LA"D the mashal and the nimshal are quite different. Both Yissachar and
Zeveulen as well as the case of father and son deal with close relatives who
have what seems to be a type of partnership with each other. I'm not sure
that one could automatically extend this to support of a non family members
learning. Is it so clear that a professional could say that I'll do the
minimum amount of learning allowed (kriat shma) and pay someone else to learn?
Kol Tuv,
Joel Rich
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Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 00:19:38 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Slap in the Face
Leibowitz held, to the best of my understanding, that dogmatic attachemnt to
land or symbols as part and parcel pof one's pereceived service to G-d, is a
form of idolatry. He was particularly denigrating of the attachment Am
Yisroel has to the Kosel, branding it, if I am not mistaken, Avoda Zara.
I believe it is not for Orthodox Jewry to concern itself with the "return"
of land to the Arabs. Certainly not if that concern leads the non-Orthodox
to the slightest aversion to Torah Judaism.
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Noah Witty <nwitty@ix.netcom.com>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 1999 10:17 PM
Subject: Slap in the Face
> R' Carl Sherer posted an essay concern apathy about the destruction of Har
> Habayis and limited access to Hevron. RYGB apparently posted a fragment
of
> it and was troubled by it; something to do with Yeshayahu Leibowitz.
Would
> RYGBechhofer be kind enough to explicate the problem.
>
> Thanks
> NW
>
>
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Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:03:40 +0200
From: "Akiva Atwood" <atwood@netvision.net.il>
Subject: RE: Slap in the Face
> I believe it is not for Orthodox Jewry to concern itself with
> the "return" of land to the Arabs.
Even if that "return" results in a situation of Pikuach Nefesh for Jews
living in Israel?
> Certainly not if that concern leads the non-Orthodox
> to the slightest aversion to Torah Judaism.
But since the non-Orthodox have no problem finding excuses (real or
[usually] imagined) for their aversion to Torah Judaism, why should that
make a difference?
I remember a Gemara that basically says we don't have to be concerned with
how they (non-Jews, but I suspect the same ruling applies to non-Observant)
mis-interpret Torah teachings.
Why is this different? (*Not* because of Yishuv HaAretz, but because of
Pikuach Nefesh, or Kedushas Har Habayit in the case of the post last week)
Akiva
===========================
Akiva Atwood
POB 27515
Jerusalem, Israel 91274
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Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:55:48 -0600
From: "Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Slap in the Face
----- Original Message -----
From: Akiva Atwood <atwood@netvision.net.il>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 1:03 AM
Subject: RE: Slap in the Face
> > I believe it is not for Orthodox Jewry to concern itself with
> > the "return" of land to the Arabs.
>
> Even if that "return" results in a situation of Pikuach Nefesh for Jews
> living in Israel?
>
Yes. That "returning" land causes lives to be lost instead of saving them is
not a demonstable point, otherwise Rabbis So;oveitchik and ylctv"a Yosef
would not have held that "returning" land is permissible.
> > Certainly not if that concern leads the non-Orthodox
> > to the slightest aversion to Torah Judaism.
>
> But since the non-Orthodox have no problem finding excuses (real or
> [usually] imagined) for their aversion to Torah Judaism, why should that
> make a difference?
>
We are not permitted to provide them with excuses, especially with behavior
that occasionally lapses into middos that are not the utmost tovos.
> I remember a Gemara that basically says we don't have to be concerned with
> how they (non-Jews, but I suspect the same ruling applies to
non-Observant)
> mis-interpret Torah teachings.
>
I do not think either statement is correct.
> Why is this different? (*Not* because of Yishuv HaAretz, but because of
> Pikuach Nefesh, or Kedushas Har Habayit in the case of the post last week)
>
What is this business of Kedushas har Ha'Bayis? Is it because of the issur
of Me'ilah? I am not sure if Me'ilah applies to subterranean dirt (mechilos
lo niskadshu) nor whether we need concern ourselves with goyim committing
Me'ilah.
Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila ygb@aishdas.org
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Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 08:55:44 -0600 (CST)
From: micha@aishdas.org (Micha Berger)
Subject: Re: a humble pixel
Noah Witty asks:
: My question is: "If that is a true statement of existence, what is it
: exactly that obligates Jews to obey the Torah? It's all imaginary anyway."
Huh? I'm missing something. If we take existance to mean "G-d's imagination"
then what makes reality any less real? We're just defining "real" in terms
of HKBH. It's an alternative to action, emanation, and bears some resemblence
-- albeit only similarlity -- to the "amirah" that the pasuk actually uses.
David Finch writes:
: Each of us is a complete image of HaShem's drawing, as well as a pixel
: within that drawing. That's the paradox.
Tzelem E-lokim isn't normally taken as "Hashem's drawing" but rather "an
image of G-d" -- what we're stressing is not Who made the image, but Who
it's an Image of. There is no paradox in saying G-d made a drawing composed
of simpler drawings -- no one asserts they are actually drawings of the same
thing?
Is there actually anything other than man who is called "tzelem E-lokim"?
Man is uniquely an image of G-d, there's no reason to assume he is also part
of a greater one. The Rambam defines "tzelem E-lokim" as "possesing intellect
and bechirah chafshi". Does humanity as a whole possess such bechirah? After
all, isn't it predetermined that we will reach the level of post-moshiach?
Aside from that, even if your assumptions are correct, it wouldn't be a
paradox or a hologram, but a fractal.
-mi
--
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287 MMG"H for 26-Dec-99: Cohen, Shemos
micha@aishdas.org A"H
http://www.aishdas.org Pisachim 89b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light. Melachim-II 10
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Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:23:51 +0200
From: "Carl M. Sherer" <cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il>
Subject: Re: problem kids
On 24 Dec 99, at 16:08, Joelirich@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 12/24/99 3:38:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> katzco@sprintmail.com writes:
>
> << But for every young man who
> wants to sit in a BM and be supported, that's an entirely different story. In
> that regard RHM is on target.
> Shabbat Shalom
> steve >>
> But why the "best and the brightest"? Again - what is the source for this
> being the determinant for public support?
Let's take as a given that society cannot possibly support the
number of young men who wish to learn in Kollel on even a
subsistence level (if this is not the case in Eretz Yisroel today, it is
rapidly becoming the case). And even if we exclude all the guys
who don't show up for seder a couple of times a week, we still have
way too many people to support. What criteria would you propose
for who gets supported and who doesn't?
I would argue that:
a. Everyone deserves the opportunity to start out in Kollel and to
attempt to prove himself, but
b. At some point, SOMEONE has to enter the work force.
How do we determine who should enter the work force - both for the
yungerleits' own good as well as for the good of the Clal (which,
after all, has supported them up to this point)? If you can give me
another set of criteria that is for the good of the individual
yungerleit, but is also for the good of the Clal, and at some point
will get SOMEONE out of Kollel, I am willing to listen. But as far as
I can tell, the only systems are merit and protectzia, and I
personally would prefer to see it decided on merit, and to see the
yungerleit who have the most potential to make a difference for the
Clal in Torah - be it as mechanchim, poskim, overall talmidei
chachamim or whatever - be the ones who remain in Kollel.
-- Carl
Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il
Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.
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