Avodah Mailing List

Volume 02 : Number 058

Saturday, November 21 1998

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:34:25 EST
From: EDTeitz@aol.com
Re: minor sins

 Is anyone aware of any other discussions where we are told to sin now in
 order to do future mitzvas. It seems like a strange concept. we are not told
 to plant kilayim so that we can keep peah, leket, trumah, etc. or to be boel
 a niddah so the future kid will keep lots of mitzvas, or to drive to shul
 shabbas to keep mitzvas of laining, davening, etc. This would relate to
 telling non-frum to drive to a shul or class on shabbas so that they will
 learn and in the future they will keep other mitzvas.

I think the difference between these and Shabbos is 'efshar l'kayaim
sh'leyhem'.  If we are not mechalel Shabbos, there is no possibility to keep
future ones.  These others can all be kept otherwise.  

I seem to recall that there is an extension of the Shabbos idea to pidyon
sh'vuyim.  I have a vague recollection of a Tur, but I do not remember any of
the specifics.

Eliyahu Teitz
Jewish Educational Center, Elizabeth, NJ

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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:59:25 EST
From: C1A1Brown@aol.com
Re: sources in Chazal for parshanut

My apologies - if I remember correctly, both positions were raised by someone
on the list (though the word 'prohibition' was never used) though not
explicitely by you (D. Eidensohn).  My objection was not to finding parallels
in Chazal for peirushim of Rishonim and Achronim - my objection was to the
insistance by some that these parallels were in fact the original, though
uncited, sources of Rishonim/Achronim.  

Good Shabbos!
Chaim Brown

In a message dated 11/20/98 12:09:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, owner-
avodah@aishdas.org writes:

<< On the other hand, I have never asserted that the only source for
explanation of
 verses is from Chazal. I have also never asserted that there is a explicit
 that it is prohibited to understand a verse - even in a critical
understanding -
 without the justification of Chazal.

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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:57:07 -0500
From: richard_wolpoe@ibi.com
Women as Memebers of the Board

Someone recently asked me:
Did Rav Moshe Feinstein Pasken that women amy not serve on the obrad of 
directors of a shul?
If yes, can we get a citing (perhaps from the Baal Yad Moshe).
If not, is there another authority that publicized such a psak?

Rich Wolpoe

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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:17:18 PST
From: "Raffy Davidovich" <raffyd@hotmail.com>
re: achosi hi

Joel wrote:

I recently discussed the issue with the Rav of my shul - Rav Menachem
Zupnick and he suggested that this may be the mekor to ma'aseh avos
siman l'banim.  How else do we know that such an idea exists?  Here the
Torah goes out of it's way to show how children's actions are directly
related to the actions and situations that their parents went through.

-Help me out Joel (or someone else),

what have the banim done that emulates these achosi hi stories?

If anyone else has any ideas about achosi hi's significance, please 
post..  It's been bothering me for YEARS!!

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:20:09 -0900
From: bens22@juno.com (Ben Smith)
Re: Avodah V2 #57

>There are many places in shas and the rishonim where the idea of
>a minor averah in order to avoid, or to help someone else avoid, a big
>is discussed.
>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:48:42 -0500
>From: "Ari Z. Zivotofsky" <azz@lsr.nei.nih.gov>
>Subject: "good sins"

>There are many places in shas and the rishonim where the idea of
>a minor averah in order to avoid, or to help someone else avoid, a big
>is discussed.

Could you e mail me some sources?  I find this surprising.  I have never
seen a place where we tell  a person to be O ' ver on an Issur De'orysa
even if there is a greater benefit.  The only place I can think of is
doing and Avayra to save someone else for many other avayros.  For
instance, if a Choleh Sheyaish Bo Sakaneh has to eat on Yom Kipper one
may Shect an animal for his (and you transgress one Issur) rather than
have him transgress many (as each Kezayis of meat would be an issur). 
But here we know that Hallacha would say to eat (because of Pekuach
Nefesh) and were are trying to save him from diong many.

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:42:59 +0200 (GMT+0200)
From: Eli Turkel <turkel@math.tau.ac.il>

Subject: settlers and Israel

I write this post with mixed feeling since I basically agree with R YGB.
Nevertheless I don't see how kiruv affects the question of settlements.

If most reform Jews would ask the orthodox Jews of Chicago to leave
because they are not welcome is there any requiremnt on them to leave
because of future kiruv work?
People are not required to leave their homes because many it might
help kiruv or make people upset.
Certainly Jews would never had lived anywhere if they couldn't stay
whenever much of the local populace didnt like it.

As I previously indicated most poskim including Chazon Ish and Rav Moshe
put kiruv on a low level when taking about possible issurim on the
non-religious part not to speak of issurim on the part of the orthodox.
Even Rav Auerbach allow kiruv only to override lifne iver.

This week the agudah in Israel (in Hamodia) also came out with a
declaration against the Wye agreement. I haven't seen the exact wording
but I know several of the rabbanim there also are against giving back
land - so it is not just the mafdal.
Again the possible prohibitions include - lo techonem and also
pikuach nefesh. Rab Dovid Cohen (of Flatbush) also adds chillul hashem
if we look weak givibg into the gentiles (preety much diametrically
opposed to Rav Schach).
Those rabbanim who favor returning land basically rely on pikuach nefesh
and Rav Schach who is against starting up with the goyim on
philosophical grounds (I dont think he had any halachic grounds
other than again pikuach nefesh). As far as I know this opinion is
a daas yuchid.

kol tuv,
Eli Turkel

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Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:15:21 +0200
From: Daniel Eidensohn <yadmoshe@netmedia.net.il>
Re: Women as Memebers of the Board

richard_wolpoe@ibi.com wrote:

> Someone recently asked me:
> Did Rav Moshe Feinstein Pasken that women amy not serve on the obrad of
> directors of a shul?

Look at YD II #45. and the previous tshuva dealing with the issue of
mashgiach YD II #44. Look also at the 8th volume YD IV #26 pages 213-214
concerning Devorah.

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