Avodah Mailing List

Volume 41: Number 84

Tue, 28 Nov 2023

• 1. Re: Birchat Cohanim (Micha Berger)
• 2. Far-fetched (Jay F. Shachter)
• 3. Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch on the parsha: (Michael Poppers)
• 4. Birchat Cohanim (Marty Bluke)
• 5. Re: Do those on Wegovy/Mounjaro need to wait more than 6 hours after meat? (Danny Schoemann)

On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 08:15:33AM +0200, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> He thus explains a report of a practice in Italy that when the Cohanim went
> up to the duchen, only one would say the birchat cohanim (either the
> greatest of them or with the one with the best voice.) While this practice
> seems to be inconsistent with the Talmud, he posits that it's an ancient
> practice...

Remember that the Jewish community in Italy were more connected with
the Yerushalmi, whether because they came from that community or were
in the same empire and had better communication.

We could expect they (and many believe Ashkenazim as well) would have
minhagim that better fit the Y-mi or the Midrashei Halakhah than the
Bavli.

So I went to the Y-mi to see if their basis was there, rather than saying
it doesn't work with the Bavli. No help. On Berakhos 5:4 (vilna 41a)
we find both R Yudah (sic) b Pazi and R Elazar, who are both kohanim,
both hold that every kohein must go up. With stories about how they each
handled the problem when they got older and couldn't. (RYbP would lean
on a pillar, to avoid mar'is ayin -- people would see he had problems
just standing. And R Elazar would leave the room.)

If the minhag continued, I assume posqim along the way found a basis
for not saying it's a minhag ta'us. But my search failed.



Sources for not duchaning daily in chu"l:
https://www.beureihatefila.com/files/2007_04_06_Tefila_Newsletter.pdf
https://www.beureihatefila.com/files/2007-04-13Tefila_Newsletter.pdf

(And if you don't know about https://www.beureihatefila.com/ check it out.
Ignore the formatting -- the content is wonderful!)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 "Someday I will do it." - is self-deceptive. 
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   "I want to do it." - is weak. 
Author: Widen Your Tent      "I am doing it." - that is the right way.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                 - Reb Menachem Mendel of Kotzk

In v41n83:

> 
> The Ibn Ezra comments (Vayikra 11:19) that some derive this name
> from "chesed" - "b'derech rechoka". (Would it be accurate to
> translate those last two words as "but this is far-fetched"?)
> 

That is, in fact, exactly how it is translated on the bottom of Page 44
in the Ktav translation of ibn Ezra on Leviticus.  I think the book is
out of print (there is a website at ktav.com that gives contact
information where you can ask) but there may be used copies available.

Unrelated to the above, has anyone other than myself realized that
"far-fetched" is clearly a Yiddish word masquerading as English?  It
certainly seems so to me.  Another one is "fermented".  I can easily
hear someone saying, "er iz azoy fermented, er is gevezen gantz
far-fetched".  But I digress.

               Jay F. ("Yaakov") Shachter
               6424 North Whipple Street
               Chicago IL  60645-4111
                       (1-773)7613784   landline
                       (1-410)9964737   GoogleVoice
                       j...@m5.chicago.il.us
                       http://m5.chicago.il.us

               When Martin Buber was a schoolboy, it must have been
               no fun at all playing tag with him during recess.

In Avodah V41n83, RAM pursued his line of questioning:
> Yes, that is what he says there, but I don't see that he brought any
evidence for it. With Rav Hirsch's masterful knowledge of chinuch, I can
understand how it was obvious to him that Esav's rebellion was a result of
his parent's shoehorning him into the same mold as Yaakov. But it isn't
obvious to me, and I'm asking for examples - either in the Torah or
midrashim or whatever - which demonstrate this faulty chinuch. <
RSRH was quoting CHaZaL, and RDrYL already pointed us to
https://web.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/rsrh/lessons_jacob_esau_col_vii.pdf,
which quotes CHaZaL on its 1st page.

Shabbas Shalom/A gut'n Shabbes!
and all the best from
*Michael Poppers* * Elizabeth, NJ, USA
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There is a famous Beis Halevi about this Italian custom. He discusses the
nature of Shomea K?Oneh and why it doesn?t work by Bircas Cohanim because
of the Halacha of Kol Ram.
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R' Ben Rothke wrote:

> As I understand it, according to Rashi, one waits 6 hours after meat
> as that is how long it takes to fully digest meat.

Where does Rashi say that?

IIRC we've discussed (eons ago) that the 6-hour wait is a Takana of
the Rif who " instituted a number of innovations that hitherto had not
existed. These changes were as a direct result of the practices of a
sect of fundamental Jews, known as the Karaites, who adhered only to
the literal Biblical texts and completely disregarded all Rabbinic
literature."

From the Klotzk blog https://tinyurl.com/5n79wj7x who continues...

> He also instituted a six hour waiting period between meat and milk.
> Hitherto the standard practice had always been that after eating meat,
> all one needed to do was kinuach vehadacha (to clean the teeth and
> rinse the mouth) and then one could partake of milk. The reason for
> instituting a six hour wait, was again to protest the Karaites who did
> eat meat and milk together

So it had nothing to do with digestion, apparently.

Curious,

- Danny, still looking for a job

Danny Schoemann - doni...@gmail.com
https://il.linkedin.com/in/doniels


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