Avodah Mailing List

Volume 40: Number 39

Thu, 02 Jun 2022

• 1. free will vs hashgacha (Joel Rich)
• 2. Minhag America (Joel Rich)
• 3. Adorning the Shul with Greenery on Shavuos: Minhag Yisrael or Chukos HaGoyim?" (Prof. L. Levine)
• 4. Re: free will vs hashgacha (Simon Montagu)
• 5. What Is The Law? (Prof. L. Levine)
• 6. Re: Adorning the Shul with Greenery on Shavuos: Minhag Yisrael or Chukos HaGoyim?" (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: Minhag America (Micha Berger)

Thoughts on a free will vs hashgacha shiur:
While I was listening to you it occurred to me that given the butterfly
effect God has a number of ways to ensure that an outcome he wants will
occur and I wonder then what algorithm would he use to determine which one
of those number of ways to get that specific result he would employ. I
would think it will be the one that limits free will in others the least
but there are also several others that come to mind. Worth thinking about!!
kt
joel rich
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Is it fair to say that to a large extent Artscroll sets minhag America? (in
its halacha publications and siddur instruction)
kt
joel rich
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From

https://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/9889


In many shuls around the world, Chag HaShavuos represents ?going green.? I
am not referring to becoming environmentally friendly, but green in a more
literal sense. In honor of Shavuos, many shuls, such as Rav Breuer?s K?hal
Adas Yeshurun (KAJ) in Washington Heights, New York, and Shomrei HaChomos
in Ramot, Yerushalayim (Rabbi Fuch?s shul), receive entire forest-like
makeovers. With branches forming a Chuppah-like canopy over the bimah,
trees set up next to the Aron Kodesh, and greenery abounding, many entire
shuls are festively festooned for Zman Mattan Torah.

Yet, we find that other shuls do perform some adorning, but in a much more
minimalist manner, using only flowers and grasses. And of course, there are
shuls where no special Shavuos decorating is done at all. Indeed, there is
quite a varied spectrum of minhagim, with each Kehillah and shul following
its own traditions.[1]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn1> This
article sets out to explore the main prevailing minhagim customary
throughout Klal Yisrael in relation to this inyan, as well as their
halachic background.


<Snip>

Minhagei Yisrael - Seeing Green?

This is why in practice, this minhag has a wide spectrum of variations in its observance.

Kehillos of Ashekenazic-German origin (Yekkehs),[35]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn35> as
well as most Chassidic communities,[36]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn36>
including Karlin,[37]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn37>
Belz,[38]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn38>
Sanz,[39]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn39>
Spinka,[40]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn40>
Skver,[41]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn41>
Chernobyl, Bobov, and Satmar,[42]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn42>
follow the minhag of the Magen Avraham and his defenders, especially as an
allusion to this custom was found in the Zohar Hakadosh, and not only
festoon the shul with greenery as per the Rema, but also place trees.


Many others, in deference to the general understanding of the Vilna Gaon?s
position, do not employ trees in their adorning, but will still decorate
their shuls utilizing flowers and grass, in essence following the Mishnah
Berurah? s conclusion. This is also the opinion of many contemporary
Gedolim including the Chazon Ish, the Steipler Gaon,[43]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn43> Rav
Shlomo Zalman Auerbach,[44]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn44> Rav
Yosef Shalom Elyashiv,[45]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn45> and
Rav Yisrael Yaakov Fischer,[46]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn46>zichronam
levrachah, contending that the Vilna Gaon only opposed setting up trees,
but not grass.[47]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn47>


A third custom, based on the strict interpretation of the Gr?a?s ruling, as
understood by the Aruch Hashulchan and several Talmidei HaGr?a, is not to
bedeck the shul at all with any greenery ? not trees nor grass nor flowers,
as they are all viewed as potential violations of Chukos HaGoyim. Rav Moshe
Feinstein zt?l ruled this way,[48]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn48> and
Rav Chaim Kanievsky zt?l was quoted as maintaining that this is the proper
minhag,[49]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn49> and
accordingly, there is no Shavuos festooning performed in the famed Lederman
shul in Bnei Brak. Some even refer to this custom of non-decoration as
?Minhagei HaYeshivos.?[50]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn50>

Curiously, there is no mention of any sort of Shavuos greenery adornment in
Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin zt?l?s authoritative Ezras Torah Luach, even
though he cites the two other main minhagim of Shavuos brought by the Rema,
namely staying up all night and eating milchigs. To this author, this
strongly implies Rav Henkin?s well-known predilection to following the
rulings of the Aruch Hashulchan - one of the Gedolim from whom he received
Semichah,[51]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn51> and
hence lending credence to the notion that his glaring lacuna of this minhag
was intentional, intending to show that he meant to follow his Rebbi?s
position on this matter.

See the above URL for much more.

YL

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The presupposition that God kivyakhol uses an algorithm seems to me
theologically dubious.

Firstly, it implies a limitation to His omnipotence: if God had an
algorithm, it would be something external to God determining His actions.

Secondly, it implies a limitation to His omniscience. With perfect
knowledge, He is able to provide an individual tailored solution for every
situation that arises without resorting to algorithms.

On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 2:17 PM Joel Rich via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> Thoughts on a free will vs hashgacha shiur:
> While I was listening to you it occurred to me that given the butterfly
> effect God has a number of ways to ensure that an outcome he wants will
> occur and I wonder then what algorithm would he use to determine which one
> of those number of ways to get that specific result he would employ. I
> would think it will be the one that limits free will in others the least
> but there are also several others that come to mind. Worth thinking about!!
> kt
> joel rich
> _______________________________________________
> Avodah mailing list
> Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
> http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
>
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The following is from RSRH's essay Sivan V. You may read the entire essay at

Sivan V<https://web.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/rsrh/sivan_v.pdf>
(Collected Writings I)

It is the light of our manhood. It illuminates our eyes and, from the
totality of truth, lets us glimpse what we need to know to function on this
earth, Not to comfort us for the darkness of this world with a dim preview
of the light of the next world does this light come. On the contrary, it is
precisely the life of this world that is illuminated by this light and is
the object of its teachings and ordinances, And not just a narrow corner of
life, but life in its broadest conception and greatest perfection.
This light-the Law-conducts us step by step through all of the
relationships of individual, family, and civic life, the life of the spirit
and the mind, of the body and the instincts, of word and deed. It guides
the life of the household, the community, the individual nation, all
nations, humanity-whose past it illuminates and whose future it charts. And
as for the present, it lets us see its significance as the
product of the past and the progenitor of the future.

The Law is a light which becomes brighter the purer we keep it, the more
fully we devote ourselves to its radiance. Its radiance enables the Jewish
man to walk through life with his eyes open, knowing what he is, what he
should be, and what is the meaning for him of the individual and community
life going on around him.
The Law gives us a standard by which to distinguish the true from the
false, the pure from the tainted, right from wrong, what is beneficial from
what is unsuitable-all according to the undeceivable judgment of Godly
Truth. It gives us a standard by which resolutely and firmly to travel His
Road without audacity and without recklessness, without contempt for man
and without worship of man, without conceit and without self-abasement, but
rather with the Godly lamp in hand. Thus equipped, we can travel our road
witnout fear, calmly and earnestly, prepared for all eventualities .

It was the light of the manhood of our nation. It was the brightly glowing
flame of inspiration in the breast of the prophets; and the purifying, and
life-giving fire upon the household hearths which spawned such prophets.

Y,et, it was also the torch of destruction for all that developed on Jewish
soil for the sake of heathen glimmer, sensuality and lust; and all that
developed on Jewish soil in opposition to the Law's own spirit and
earnestness, in opposition to its Truth and inspiration.And
afterwards, when as a result of this neglect and opposition, this Law was
expelled along with the Jewish people, it became the Light of wisdom in the
breast of the earnest core of men and women who claimed it for themselves
and kept it alive. In exile, this Law could develop in even greater
richness and purity, as Jewish life shed the husk of political
independence. The less a nationhood offered fulfillment and luster, the
more the Divine Law itself became the source of all triumph and achievement
in the Jewish sphere. And this remained true even when, Tor a brief period,
home soil was once again permitted to the dispersed people. OUf people
waged its wars, and won its victories, not on the battlefield but in the
fertile hearts and minds of the nations with whom they came in contact.

Yitzchok Levine
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On Wed, Jun 01, 2022 at 05:51:40PM +0000, Prof. L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> From
> https://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/9889

The problem is, if you want to invoke the Gr's shitah on Chuqos haGoyim,
there are many other minhagim to question.

Including another one of Shavuos -- eating milchig. The first metion of
that minag is from the Kol Bo, written in Prevance, probably by R Aharon
b Yaaqov haKohein (Lunel, 1262-1325). There was a Christian custom of
Wittessontag (White Sunday) in Provence, or Wittesmontag (White Monday)
in Germany, in the week before their Pentacost, where the custom was to
drink milk. (It was a big day for baptisms and wearing white.)

All totally inoccuous. The custom comes from it being long enough after
the cows have been eating grass rather than dried hay for the milk and
cheese to taste better.

But, the non-Jews did it first. We copied, and then found our own
symbolism in the practice.

So, the Gra apparently didn't know that history, because leshitaso that's
equally problematic.

And Purim costumes arose in Italy, where costumes on Carnival were already
a thing among the Christians.

Also from Italy -- cassola, ricotta cheese pancakes. The original latke.
And admit it, the connection to Chanukah is pretty weak, as it is based
on a story about Yehudis and Holefornos, who was a Babylonian general
living at the end of Bayis Rishon. From the Apocrypha. (And possibly a
story based on Yael in Shofetim.)

In short, I don't think this is a can of worms we don't want to open.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 47th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   6 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Hod sheb'Malchus: What is glorious about
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF             unity-how does it draw out one's soul?

On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 11:04:20PM -0400, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> Is it fair to say that to a large extent Artscroll sets minhag America? (in
> its halacha publications and siddur instruction)

Sibah or mesoveiv?

Maybe a little of each? Something would be widely accepted before Artscroll
would give it as the only option. But their doing so would accelerate the
death of the other minhagim.

I have no doubt that if ch"v mashiach were to tarry long enough, a minhag
America would emerge. There is too much mixing of the old communities, at
least the Ashkenazi ones (American O culture is Ashkocentric). We cannot
maintain this reality of people following the minhagei avos since their
pre-War ancestors. Minhag Ashkenaz took centuries to emerge, and from that
the East European variant again took generations.

Today's world moves faster, but the role of precedent in the kelalei pesaq
will slow that down. Between the two, I have no idea how long it would
take for Minhag America to emerge -- again if ch"v the galus lasts long
enough for it to happen.

But yes, the availability of a publisher dominating the market would
shorten that time.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 47th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   6 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Hod sheb'Malchus: What is glorious about
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF             unity-how does it draw out one's soul?


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