Avodah Mailing List

Volume 36: Number 63

Fri, 25 May 2018

• 1. Re: Benefits of Davening K'Vosikin (Micha Berger)
• 2. Re: Benefits of Davening K'Vosikin (Zev Sero)
• 3. Making a bracha on Niagara Falls (Joseph Kaplan)
• 4. Re: Benefits of Davening K'Vosikin (Prof. Levine)
• 5. theologically motivated ? (Rich, Joel)
• 6. insight from a MO mechaneich (Rich, Joel)
• 7. Does Ru?ach Ra?ah (negative spirits) still exist today? (Professor L. Levine)
• 8. Re: Benefits of Davening K'Vosikin (Simon Montagu)
• 9. Re: Benefits of Davening K'Vosikin (Prof. Levine)
• 10. Re: Benefits of Davening K'Vosikin (Micha Berger)
• 11. Re: Benefits of Davening K'Vosikin (Prof. Levine)

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 02:53:38PM +0000, Professor L. Levine forwarded
(from Hakhel, who were forwarding as well):
:> THE BENEFITS OF VASIKIN! The following important information is posted
:> at a Vasikin Minyan in Los Angeles, California.
:> http://www.hakhel.info/archivesPublicService/MaalosDaveningNeitz.jpg

It's very al-menas-leqabel-peras collecting a list of havtachos and
segulos.. There is the stretch from the Rambam onward talking about
how davening haneitz is better, or how one should daven as soon after as
possible. (Which implies kevasiqin is superior, but not actually saying
that.) But the general tenor of the list is about mystical rewards;
even the references to the gemara. I didn't think it would be your speed.

Also, Hakhel pushed my button on a pet peeve. Whomever at Hakhel
writes titles knows diqduq better than whomever sent in about the
poster. (Compare the subject line of this thread'S "K'Vosikin" with the
quoted text's "VASIKIN".)

"Vasikin" describes my grandfather a"h's minyan at the kotel. They were
all vasiqin; the youngest regular was over 80. And davening neitz is AZ,
a form of zoolatry. Wikipedia tells me they worshipped hawks in Etype
(in the form of Horus), Hawaii, Fiji and North Borneo.

The words are "kevasiqin", as a person needn't be vasiq to participate,
and haneitz, with a qamatz under the hei, hif'il -- causing to twinkle.
No "the" there to remove; omitting the "ha-" is just wrong.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The meaning of life is to find your gift.
mi...@aishdas.org        The purpose of life
http://www.aishdas.org   is to give it away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                     - Pablo Picasso

On 23/05/18 13:12, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:

>   And davening neitz is AZ, a form of zoolatry.

That would be davening *laneitz*.  I'm not sure what "davening neitz" 
might mean, but whatever it is, it's not AZ.

I wonder about those who, on a plane going directly to or from EY, daven 
out the side windows.  Are they davening to the Great Penguin Spirit at 
the South Pole?

-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 2018 to all
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper

?I knew R. Miller very well, and he saw the world in only black and 
white.  IMO opinion he lived a life of extremes. He even "resented" 
having to go the Chasana of a grandchild in Cleveland.  I do not know 
of any other grandfather who would have felt that way,  do you??

I am certainly no chassid if Rav Miller. But criticizing anyone, and
certainty not criticizing a Talmid chacham, for personal feelings about a
family matter, seems to me to be in poor taste. 
Joseph

Sent from my iPhone

At 01:12 PM 5/23/2018, Micha Berger wrote:
>The words are "KEvasiqin", as a person needn't be vasiq to participate,
>and haneitz, with a qamatz under the hei, hif'il -- causing to twinkle.

I use the terminology K'Vosikin,  but Hakhel used Vasikin so I left it.

I have often quipped that the only people who know Dikduk are 
maskilim! >:-} (Note the wicked grin.)

Regrading segulos,  I found the following of interest.

 From a footnote to letter 15 of the 19 Letters of RSRH

"Segulah" denotes a property belonging permanently to an owner, to 
which no one else has any right or claim (cf. Bava Kamma 87b).


YL
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From "Scalia Speaks" - "The religious person - the truly religious person -
cannot divide all his policy preferences into those that are theologically
motivated and those that proceed from purely naturalistic inclinations. Can
any of us say whether he would be the sort of moral creature he is without
a belief in a supreme Lawgiver, and hence in a Supreme Law?"
Me- how would you answer this question? How would an atheist? What would be
an acceptable answer for a religious person to give if asked at a judicial
confirmation hearing in the US? In Israel?
KT
Joel Rich

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Interesting insight from a MO mechaneich-The generation that did not have
the gap year in Israel was more likely to be able to move to a community
and be inspired later in life by a community Rabbi. The generation that did
have the gap year experience but returned home to be close to their prior
levels of engagement are less likely to be inspired later in life by a
community. Do you agree?

It reminded me of the simple agricultural pshat as to why we immediately go
to def con 5 fasting if a little rain falls, the crops sprout a bit and
then no more rain falls.

KT
Joel Rich

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ADDRESSEE.  IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL 
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From Today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Does Ru?ach Ra?ah (negative spirits) still exist today?



A. In many places, the Gemara discusses Ruach Ra?ah, ayin horah, sheidim
and other negative spiritual forces. Though the Rambam interpreted many of
these references in Torah literature in a homiletical manner, most Rishonim
understood them in a literal sense, and the Shulchan Oruch and other
halachic codifiers discuss practical implications of Ruach Ra?ah and other
negative forces.

Though people might view such matters as unscientific and mere
superstition, it should be noted that much of reality is not visible to the
naked eye. Scientists have revealed the presence of numerous invisible
forces in the universe, such as gravity and electromagnetic waves. In fact,
scientists today theorize that dark matter, which no one has ever seen,
accounts for 80% of the matter in the universe. Just as G-d created
indiscernible physical forces in the universe which physicists have shown
to exist, Chazal identified invisible spiritual forces that potentially
impact negatively on both the body and soul (see Teshuvos Vihanhogos 1:8).

The Gemara (Shabbos 109a) states that when awakening in the morning, a
person must wash his or her hands (three times) to remove Ru?ach Ra?ah.
Until one does so, one must be careful not to touch the mouth, nose, eyes
or ears so as not to allow the Ru?ach Ra?ah to enter into the body. Also,
one may not touch food, since the Ru?ach Ra?ah will spread to the food.
Although the Maharshal (Chulin 8:12) questions whether any form of Ru?ach
Ra?ah still exists today, the consensus of most poskim is that this is
still a concern. The Halachos of removing Ru?ach Ra?ah from one?s hands are
codified in Shulchan Aruch (OC 4:2-5). If one touched food before washing
in the morning, the Mishnah Berurah (4:14) writes that bedieved (after the
fact) the food may be eaten, but if possible the food should be rinsed
three times.

The Gemara warns us about other forms of Ru?ach Ra?ah (damaging spirits).
However, the Magen Avrohom (173:1) writes that there are some forms of
Ru?ach Ra?ah that no longer pose a danger.

For example, the Gemara (Yoma 77b) writes that during the course of the
day, one must wash their hands before feeding bread to a young child;
otherwise a Ru?ach Ra?ah will affect the bread. The Tur (OC 613) writes
that this form of ru?ach ra?ah no longer exists (though it is still present
when waking in the morning). As such there is no longer a requirement to
wash one?s hands before touching bread that one will feed to a child.


YL
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On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 8:12 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
>
> "Vasikin" describes my grandfather a"h's minyan at the kotel. They were
> all vasiqin; the youngest regular was over 80. And davening neitz is AZ,
> a form of zoolatry. Wikipedia tells me they worshipped hawks in Etype
> (in the form of Horus), Hawaii, Fiji and North Borneo.
>

This is one of the things that really grinds my gears too. Placards went up
recently on the street corners in my neighbourhood pointing towards one of
the local shuls and advertising "tefilla banetz", and I cringe every time I
go past.

But I try to be melamed zechut on Am Yisrael. There is a noun "ketz" from
the root KTZTZ meaning "end", why shouldn't there be a noun "netz" from the
root "NTZTZ" meaning "shining" or "sunrise"? There certainly is such a word
meaning "bud", it occurs in Bereishit 40:10 in the sar hamashkim's
description of his dream and in Hazal.
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At 03:10 AM 5/25/2018, Simon Montagu wrote:

>This is one of the things that really grinds my gears too. Placards 
>went up recently on the street corners in my neighbourhood pointing 
>towards one of the local shuls and advertising "tefilla banetz", and 
>I cringe every time I go past.
>
>But I try to be melamed zechut on Am Yisrael. There is a noun "ketz" 
>from the root KTZTZ meaning "end", why shouldn't there be a noun 
>"netz" from the root "NTZTZ" meaning "shining" or "sunrise"? There 
>certainly is such a word meaning "bud", it occurs in Bereishit 40:10 
>in the sar hamashkim's description of his dream and in Hazal.

Isn't modern Hebrew filled with all sorts of new words that are not 
found in TANACH,  so why not this one?

YL

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On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 07:51:45AM EDT, Prof. Levine wrote:
: Isn't modern Hebrew filled with all sorts of new words that are not
: found in TANACH,  so why not this one?

Because this isn't Modern Hebrew (Abazi"t as RSMandel calls it). This
is halachic jargon that is also being used in Judeo-English and Yiddish.
There is something sad about the widening gap between Leshon haQodesh
and Abazit, as the latter adopts more terms, ideas and biases from
English and other Western languages. But that's an entirely different
topic.

People are trying to "do halakhah" without understanding the language
the categories they're trying to implements are labeled in. Without
understanding the language of Chazal, we are missing a lot of subtlety
about what they meant. With bigger problems (if less about din) if
you don't know the workings of the language of Tefillah, Tehillim
or Chumash.

Judaism without diqduq is a paler, less nuanced, thing.

I expect you have a LOT from RSRH in your cut-n-paste library on this.


Earlier, at 10:10:22AM IDT, Simon Montagu wrote the post that Prof
Levine was replying to:
: But I try to be melamed zechut on Am Yisrael. There is a noun "ketz" from
: the root KTZTZ meaning "end", why shouldn't there be a noun "netz" from the
: root "NTZTZ" meaning "shining" or "sunrise"? There certainly is such a word
: meaning "bud", it occurs in Bereishit 40:10 in the sar hamashkim's
: description of his dream and in Hazal.

Nitzotz. Yeshaiah 1:31 uses it to refer to a spark, as it's something
that starts a fire. Comes up a number of times in Chazal. Most famously
to people who daven Ashkenaz, Shabbos 3:6: nosenin keli sachas haneir
leqabeil nitzotzos. There is a beis hanitzotz in the BHMQ. Libun requires
nitzotzos coming out of the keli. "Nitzotzos ein bahen mamash". (Shabbos
47b)

BUT... getting back to that nuance theme... Haneitz is when there is
enough light to make things like that sparkle. It's before alos, which
is when the first spark of the sun is visible.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Our greatest fear is not that we're inadequate,
mi...@aishdas.org        Our greatest fear is that we're powerful
http://www.aishdas.org   beyond measure
Fax: (270) 514-1507                        - Anonymous

At 09:49 AM 5/25/2018, Micha Berger wrote:
>Because this isn't Modern Hebrew (Abazi"t as RSMandel calls it). This
>is halachic jargon that is also being used in Judeo-English and Yiddish.
>There is something sad about the widening gap between Leshon haQodesh
>and Abazit, as the latter adopts more terms, ideas and biases from
>English and other Western languages. But that's an entirely different
>topic.

Sadly,  with almost everyone (except me) using smart phone and 
texting,  the English language is, IMO,  going down the 
drain.  People do not spell properly,  write things that are not 
words,  etc.  This is the way things are and Hebrew will be spared either.

YL
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