Volume 31: Number 108
Tue, 04 Jun 2013
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: martin brody <martinlbr...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 04:37:03 -0700
Subject: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
"On that note, I have to say I don't understand how so many people go
away for Pesach and other Yomim Tovim to hotels. Every hotel that I have
stayed at in the Western world (except Israel) in the past few years has
had only electronic door locks. How do people get into their rooms on
Yom Tov?
Marty Bluke"
By doing what halacha permits in such a situation. Kli acher yad or some
other type of shinnui.
I don't understand why somebody wouldn't do this.
**
Martin Brody
310 474 1856
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Message: 2
From: Marty Bluke <marty.bl...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 15:04:14 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
R' Martin Brody wrote:
"By doing what halacha permits in such a situation. Kli acher yad or some
other type of shinnui.
I don't understand why somebody wouldn't do this."
A few points:
1. Kilacher yad and shinui are not lechatchelia but b'dieved and are not
permitted in all circumstances. Is it really permissible to go to a hotel
for Shabbos/Yom Tov and put yourself in a position where you will know you
need to violate issurim b'shinui?
2. How exactly do you put an electronic room key in b'shinui and/or
kilachar yad? How do you activate the air conditioning sensor b'shinui? A
lot of the things that we are talking about can't really be done b'shinui.
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Message: 3
From: David Riceman <drice...@optimum.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 11:17:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] electricity on Shabbos
RCL (echoed by several others):
<<But, to my mind, ignored the wider implication - as set out above.
Unless you are comfortable with a shabbas with the phone on and texts
coming in and out all the time, you have to be very careful writing
something that could easily be taken by somebody looking for a heter as
allowing this.>>
A historical question. We are all accustomed to reading on Friday
night. At some point that was a tremendous innovation. When did the
transition take place, and did people react as above?
David Riceman
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Message: 4
From: "Kenneth Miller" <kennethgmil...@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 10:34:15 GMT
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Bishul Akum question
R' Martin Brody asked how the heterim of
> a) needs to be food fit for a king
> b) allowed if it can be eaten raw
lessens the problem of
> a) Rabbenu Tam (and others) - leads to marriage
My guess has always been that these limit the prohibition to formal
dinners, and they exempt light snacks. One could argue that the atmosphere
at a light snack is more prone to levity and inappropriate conduct, but my
guess is that Chazal were less worried about spontaneous frivolity, and
more about an actual intermarriage, which might only happen after formal
dining. By "formal dining", I'm thinking of the sort of date which involves
a fancy restaurant, as opposed to grabbing a slice of pizza.
Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
Political system upset?
Democrats BIG advantage in America about to completely vanish
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/51ac71794aec471792e6bst04vuc
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Message: 5
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 12:18:32 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] limudei chol
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 09:44:04AM +0300, Eli Turkel wrote:
: Rav Kook combines Torah and science are kodesh and chol but combine to form
: kodesh hakodashim. Thus, according to Rav Kook science is certainly lower
: than Torah but still an essential portion of the entire kodesh hakodashin.
: Thus, Rav Kook's vision for the ideal yeshiva includes
: limudei chol as an intrinsic part.
A slightly different phrasing of the same idea:
Qodesh qadashim, in RAYK's thought, refers to the layer of existence
prior to qodesh and chol. Everything comes from HQBH, and therefore
there is an inherant holiness, even to that which we perceive as chol.
Qodesh is that in which the Divine is more readily apparent, and so it
provides purpose, chol provides the means. So we need havdalah, so that
we don't confuse ends and means, but there is a dynamic in place which
will bring to light the underlying unity of the creation of Hashem Echad.
Our inability to see HQBH in the means is RAYK's understanding of the
medrash about "eitz peri" vs "eitz oseh peri". The tree was supposed to
share the ta'am of the fruit, but in the final reality, it doesn't. In
contrast, Aharon's mateh sprouted buds, blossoms and fruit at the same
time, because it represents the Qodesh haQadashim.
And so, without limudei chol one lacks the dynamic leading to QhQ.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
mi...@aishdas.org but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
http://www.aishdas.org tasks as if they were great and noble.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Helen Keller
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Message: 6
From: "M Cohen" <mco...@touchlogic.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 12:09:27 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] induction cooking
http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-ShatteredDreams.htm
Although induction cooking offers a koshering benefit, the cooktop cannot be
used on Shabbos or Yom Tov because the cooking connection is made once the
pot is put onto the coil area. Similarly, one would not be able to remove
the pot from the cooktop on Shabbos or Yom Tov because one would be
"disconnecting" the magnetic field by removing the pot. While the ability
to kasher an induction cooktop is an advantage, the disadvantage of not
being able to use it on Shabbos or Yom Tov makes this cooktop impractical,
unless one has more than one cooktop in the kitchen (an induction for during
the week, and a non-induction for Shabbos and Yom Tov).
As with every new advent of technology, one balabusta's dream is another
balabusta's nightmare.
RS miller of Toronto also expressed to me that YT adjustment, and chazara on
Shabbos w/be problems with induction cooking
(although he did not mention a prob with 'disconnecting the magnetic field
')
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Message: 7
From: Zev Sero <z...@sero.name>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 11:34:47 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
On 3/06/2013 7:37 AM, martin brody wrote:
> "On that note, I have to say I don't understand how so many people go
> away for Pesach and other Yomim Tovim to hotels. Every hotel that I have
> stayed at in the Western world (except Israel) in the past few years has
> had only electronic door locks. How do people get into their rooms on
> Yom Tov?
Tape.
--
Zev Sero A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and
z...@sero.name substantial reason' why he should be permitted to
exercise his rights. The right's existence is all
the reason he needs.
- Judge Benson E. Legg, Woollard v. Sheridan
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Message: 8
From: "Rich, Joel" <JR...@sibson.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 11:44:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
R' Martin Brody wrote:
"By doing what halacha permits in such a situation. Kli acher yad or some other type of shinnui.
I don't understand why somebody wouldn't do this."
A few points:
1. Kilacher yad and shinui are not lechatchelia but b'dieved and are not
permitted in all circumstances. Is it really permissible to go to a hotel
for Shabbos/Yom Tov and put yourself in a position where you will know you
need to violate issurim b'shinui?
==========================================================
Similar question for those who live in high rises that need to have elevator operator push button on shabbat. Can you lchatchila move in?
KT
Joel Rich
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Message: 9
From: martin brody <martinlbr...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 11:36:13 -0700
Subject: Re: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
"On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:04 AM, Marty Bluke <marty.bl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> R' Martin Brody wrote:
>
> "By doing what halacha permits in such a situation. Kli acher yad or some
> other type of shinnui.
> I don't understand why somebody wouldn't do this."
>
> A few points:
> 1. Kilacher yad and shinui are not lechatchelia but b'dieved and are not
> permitted in all circumstances. Is it really permissible to go to a hotel
> for Shabbos/Yom Tov and put yourself in a position where you will know you
> need to violate issurim b'shinui?
> 2. How exactly do you put an electronic room key in b'shinui and/or
> kilachar yad? How do you activate the air conditioning sensor b'shinui? A
> lot of the things that we are talking about can't really be done b'shinui.
>
Marty Bluke"
In my original response I only referred to the electronic lock issue.. Of
course it is b'dieved.You wouldn't put such a lock in your own home.But
it's there, and you have to get into the room. If you think sleeping in the
hotel lounge is better, go ahead.
But maybe there is no issur at all. Regardless, use your other hand or even
your teeth.
As for the air conditioning, it's a gerama.You didn't put it there.Thank
the hotel management afterwards.
Martin Brody
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Message: 10
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 16:40:30 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
On Mon, Jun 03, 2013 at 03:04:14PM +0300, Marty Bluke wrote:
: R' Martin Brody wrote:
:> By doing what halacha permits in such a situation. Kli acher yad or some
:> other type of shinnui.
:> I don't understand why somebody wouldn't do this.
:
: A few points:
: 1. Kilacher yad and shinui are not lechatchelia but b'dieved and are not
: permitted in all circumstances. Is it really permissible to go to a hotel
: for Shabbos/Yom Tov and put yourself in a position where you will know you
: need to violate issurim b'shinui?
...
Interestingly, I just (as in since reading RMBluke's email) listened
to a shiur by RARakeffetR which mentions a pesaq by RYBS on this topic.
http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/794946 at 46:30 or so. RYBS
discusses elevator apartments with amira le'aku"m. RYBS was meiqil on
the grounds that pretty much any reason you would enter or leave would
be lidvar mitzvah -- going to shul, returning for se'udas Shabbos,
even napping is oneg Shabbos.
(The shiur as a whole is interesting. It's about the respect Ginsberg
received from real gedolim. Who was he, and where did he really stand?
This is already after the merger with RIETS failed, Mordechai Kaplan's
rise to fame, no one would claim JTS was still O, or that Ginsberg
believed in Torah miSinai. And yet... So Ginsberg's son testifies that
he only used the elevator al yedei amira le'aku"m. And then RARR notes
that his rebbe too permitted!)
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
PS: Three of us on the same thread with the same initials. Don't use
"RMB" or we'll have no idea which one you're quoting!
--
Micha Berger A cheerful disposition is an inestimable treasure.
mi...@aishdas.org It preserves health, promotes convalescence,
http://www.aishdas.org and helps us cope with adversity.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - R' SR Hirsch, "From the Wisdom of Mishlei"
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Message: 11
From: eli.neuberger@_gmail.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 19:54:55 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Vaccinations
From: Eli Turkel <elitur...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:35:23
To: areivim <arei...@aishdas.org>
...
> On the halachic side R. Zilberstein quoting Rav Elyashiv came out very
> strongly on the halachic obligation to have vaccinations.
Not long ago Ami Magazine had an interview with a lady from Monsey
(who TTBOMK has no professional training) who is in the forefront of
the anti-vacinnation crowd. There has been somewhat of a groundswell in
Lakewood promoting this as well.
In what sefer is the psak of RYZ regarding this issue written?
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Message: 12
From: "Rich, Joel" <JR...@sibson.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 17:17:50 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
...
Interestingly, I just (as in since reading RMBluke's email) listened
to a shiur by RARakeffetR which mentions a pesaq by RYBS on this topic.
http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/794946 at 46:30 or so. RYBS
discusses elevator apartments with amira le'aku"m. RYBS was meiqil on
the grounds that pretty much any reason you would enter or leave would
be lidvar mitzvah -- going to shul, returning for se'udas Shabbos,
even napping is oneg Shabbos.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
Rav schachter says you can't rely on it on an ongoing basis (i.e. can't rent an apartment on a high floor)
KT
Joel Rich
THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE
ADDRESSEE. IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE. Dissemination,
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is
strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us
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Thank you.
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Message: 13
From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 18:04:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] TALKING IN SHUL
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 06:39:49PM +0000, Kenneth Miller wrote:
:> ... So how does a minhag Yisrael end up with stricter rules
:> for silence than actual dinim derabbanan?
: I propose that RDN used the word "forbidden" more literally than he
: should have, and/or RMB understood it more literally than he could have.
Actually, I was referring to the actual prohibition, not the level
of prohibitedness. There are more things permitted between berakhos
or paragraphs of Shema (other than "H' E-lokeikhem" and "Emes") than
between Barukh sheAmar and Yishtabach? In both cases there is a brake
in the middle of berakhos hasemuchos lechavertam.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger A person lives with himself for seventy years,
mi...@aishdas.org and after it is all over, he still does not
http://www.aishdas.org know himself.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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Message: 14
From: "Prof. Levine" <llev...@stevens.edu>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 07:34:28 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] The golden rule in Kibud Av V?Eim
From today's Hakhel email bulletin.
The golden rule in Kibud Av V'Eim is: The way in which one would
want his children to treat him, and what he would like them to do for
him--is the way he should treat his parents and the acts he should
undertake on their behalf!
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Message: 15
From: Marty Bluke <marty.bl...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 08:18:51 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
R' Martin Brody wrote:
"As for the air conditioning, it's a gerama.You didn't put it there.Thank
the hotel management afterwards."
Why would that be Gerama? Your movement is causing the sensor to turn the
air conditioning on.
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Message: 16
From: martin brody <martinlbrody@_gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 22:52:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
"On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Marty Bluke <marty.bl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why would that be Gerama? Your movement is causing the sensor to turn the
> air conditioning on."
Because you didn't put it there. No different to motion detectors that turn
on lights walking home from shul friday night.
Martin Brody
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Message: 17
From: Marty Bluke <marty.bl...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 14:25:43 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] hotel doors on Yom Tov (And Shabbat!)
R' Martin Brody wrote that causing something to happen like a motion
detector turning on lights or turning on an air conditioner is Gerama
because you didn't put it there.
I fail to see how that is relevant. Why should it matter who put the sensor
there? How does that make it Gerama? The fact is that your movement is
directly causing something to happen namely the light going on. Why would
that not be considered a pesik reisha?
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