Avodah Mailing List

Volume 23: Number 90

Tue, 01 May 2007

• 1. Love your fellow as yourself (Prof. Levine)
• 2. Re: Peanuts and other Kitnios (Ari Zivotofsky)
• 3. Child marrying against Parents' wishes (Daniel Eidensohn)
• 4. Re: Yom Ha'Atzma'ut (Samuel Svarc)
• 5. Fw: Puzzling Tragum Yonosons... (SBA)
• 6. Re: Matza on Pesach Sheni (Zev Sero)
• 7. Re: fashion models and opera singers (David Riceman)
• 8. Re: Fw: fashion models and opera singers (Mike Miller)
• 9. Re: Puzzling Tragum Yonosons... (David Riceman)
• 10. Did Shlomo HaMelech lie when suggesting the baby be cut? (Meir Rabi)
• 11. Re: Peanuts and other kitniyos (Doron Beckerman)
• 12. Re: [Areivim] Fw: fashion models and opera singers (Daniel Israel)
• 13. Re: fashion models and opera singers (T613K@aol.com)
• 14. Re: fashion models and opera singers (T613K@aol.com)

The new translation of RSRH's commentary on Vayikra translates pasuk 
19:18 as "but you shall love your neighbor's welfare as though it 
were your own."

 From Rav Hirsch's commentary it seems to me that he interprets the 
work l'ray'acha to apply to all of mankind, to one's fellow man, and 
not just to one's fellow Jew. Indeed, he writes, "For the duty of 
love that is under discussion here is incumbent in regard to all our 
fellow men." (page 624. My emphasis on the word all.)  Further in his 
commentary of this pasuk Rav Hirsch refers to Avos 6:1, namely that 
one who loves Hashem loves His creatures. His creatures would, of 
course, include all mankind.

Yet, according to the Chinuch and the Rambam, ray'acha is taken to 
refer to one's fellow Jew only.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Yitzchok Levine 
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any word from cousin at Opa's Yahrzeit siyum if the kuntres is available?




Danny Schoemann wrote:

>As noted by some posters, I did not translate Sharvit when discussing
>the criteria for Kitnios.
>
>This is because I have no idea what it means - and I don't seem to be
>the only one.
>
>I see no correlation between: beans, barley, peanuts, mustard and canola
>
>Beans grow in a long pod - many to each pod on bushes or vines
>
>Barley grows on a stalk - each kernel in it's own bran, in  2, 3 or 6
>rows per stalk.
>
>Peanut pods (as R' Dov Bloom pointed out) grow underground in bean-like fashion
>
>Mustard grows in flowers with seeds about 1 mm in diameter
>
>Canola seems to look like mustard, but the seeds aren't as tiny, I think.
>
>I'll discuss this with my cousin at Opa's Yahrzeit siyum on Thursday
>night, and also find out how people can get hold of his Kuntras (as
>many list members have asked.)
>
>- Danny
>_______________________________________________
>Avodah mailing list
>Avodah@lists.aishdas.org
>http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
>
>
>  
>

Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 24:25 the Remah says if a father protests his son's 
choice of wife the son does not need to listen to the father. This seems 
to be the accepted halacha. And this applies also to the daughter. [see 
Tzitz  Eliezer 15:34 Yabiya Omer 8 YD 22:1

The problem is when the parents view the choice as an embarrassment.

My question is what constitutes an embarrassment. I don't think there is 
no question if the desired spouse is in violation of halacha i.e., 
doesn't observe mitzvos. We see that from Avraham insisting that 
Yitzchok not marry a Cananaite women.

However if the potential mate is in fact observant but is  a baal tshuva 
or a ger. or a mixed marriage of American and Israeli or ashkenaz with 
sefardi? A litvak marrying a chasid? What about biracial? If the person 
is retarded or has Down's syndrome? What about ben or bas nidah? Former 
drug addict or alcoholic?

Does anyone know of psak in these types of cases?


Daniel Eidensohn

As per the moderators request, this thread was moved to Avodah from Areivim.
To recap for those that might have missed it...

In Areivim Digest, Vol 23, Issue 354, R' Moshe Feldman posted:

" I wrote someone yesterday:
"Chag Atzma'ut Sameach."

He wrote me back:
> I tried searching for this Chag in SA, but was unable to locate it. 
> Could you please give me a mareh makom?

Magen Avraham siman 686 sk 5
Chasam Sofer chelek 1 siman 191 "

I commented on this:

" Ironically, that Chasam Sofer brings down the issur of adding
Yomim Tovim for the entire Klal Yisroel.
(Scans of the Chasam Sofer available to all.) "

To which R' MF replied:

>However, the CS does very clearly state that the tzibbur of an entire 
>medinah (such as the State of Israel) can accept upon itself a chag.
>You may have a point as to whether people in Chutz La'aretz may 
>celebrate YhA to the extent we do here.
>
>(ASCII text of Chasam Sofer available to all.)

Here then is my response:

When something is established illegitimately, as a new Yom Tov for Klal
Yisroel, the whole thing falls off. If instead, they would have made a
"Purim d'EY" like many cities made "Purim's" throughout history when they
had a nes, who knows, many more people might be holding it today. But this
didn't happen. It was packaged as a new "Yom Tov", something which is
problematic halachically and led people to suspect, rightly or wrongly, that
this was to push the view that the Medina is 'aschalta d'geulah'. "T'fosteh
m'rubah, lo t'fostah."

KT,
MSS

From: "SBA" <sba@sba2.com>
>2 Targum Yonosons that I could do with some help in understanding.
> Kedoshim (19:24): "Ubashono Horevi'is yihyeh kol Piryo kodesh hilulim 
> LaHashem" TY adds: "...misperak min kahano".
>  How do Kohanim come into this?
=====

I now see that the Pardes Yosef mention sthis and also quotes the 
Ibn Ezra and Abarbanel writing: "vehakohanim yochleno" !!

It also notes "ayen Shu't Maharatz Chayos -Imrei Binah 2" (?).

It continues that the sefer Hadrash Veha'iyun explains (the TY) "shenafik 
mireshus hakohen"  ayin shom.

SBA

kennethgmiller@juno.com wrote:
> Pesach Sheni is this week, on Wednesday. The Sefer Hatodaah (as 
> translated by RnTK's father, Rav Bulman zt"l) writes: "Some have the 
> custom of eating some left-over matzah from Pesach, as a memorial to 
> the Pesach sacrifice which was eaten together with matzot."
> 
> Does anyone know, according to this minhag, when would the matza be 
> eaten? On Wednesday afternoon, corresponding to when the Pesach Sheni 
> is shechted, or on Wednesday night, corresponding to when the Pesach 
> Sheni is eaten?

There are sources for both, but lich'orah only the latter makes sense.
Of course there is still a chance that we will eat matzah that night,
not as a zecher lepesach sheni but as the pesach sheni itself.  In
which case matzah in the afternoon might very well be assur...

-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev@sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas

> RSP writes:
>   
>> A former student of mine is a very successful budding opera
>> singer.  Although she knows that halacha does not permit kol 
>> isha in performance (even in the most lenient piskei halacha 
>> that I'm aware of, at least) 
>>     
IIRC the most lenient opinion prohibits only solo a capella singing.  I 
don't own a copy, but IIRC it's cited in Otzar HaPoskim.

David Riceman

On 4/30/07, Samuel Svarc <ssvarc@yeshivanet.com> wrote:
> >The other point I was making is that perhaps it would be better for us
> >to say "their behavior is wrong" or "their behavior appears wrong."
> >Why do we need to go the extra step?
>
> Because not judging reveals an ambivalence to the action.
>
> R' Sholom Schwadron used to say over a true story, as follows. One day his
> wife rushed into the house and told him that a kid had fallen and cut his
> head. R' Sholom grabbed a towel and ran outside to the kid (a neighbor's
> son). He pressed the towel to the kid's head and started running up the hill
> to a doctor. The kid's grandmother was walking down the hill and seeing R'
> Sholom running with the kid, she figured it must be R' Sholom's son, so she
> called out, "R' Sholom, he'll be all right! Don't worry!" As R' Sholom came
> closer she saw that the kid wasn't a Schwadron, so she said, "Oy! He should
> have a refuah shleimah!" As R' Sholom sprinted past her and she saw that the
> kid was *her* grandson, she shrieked, "YANKEL!!!"
>
> R' Sholom used to say, when it's your Yankel, then you're not ambivalent.
> When shabbos means as much to you as your bank account, you shriek. When
> someone rips you off, you're not ambivalent about it; you say, "That person,
> he's a ganef!". When someone rips off the Ribona Shel Olam, it's the same
> thing... if it's your Yankel.

True. However, the fact that our actions (or feelings) in one case may
match what's expected from us doesn't mean we're necessisary doing it
for the right reasons.

If we scream "shabbos" at cars driving by, but don't scream "choshen
mishpat" when we see financial improprieties, or, conversely, we
protest improper social conduct on behalf of leaders but ignore
religious deficiencies, then it suggests that our actions may not
(yet) be 100% leshem shamayim. This in no way suggests we should lower
our standards, but it does require a great deal of introspection.

Of course, this is all assuming that screaming Shabbos is what Hashem
actually wants from us, which is a topic that I think has been
sufficiently addressed in other forums.

> >Side note: one of the people in our building recently approached me to
> >ask about another tenant. The first individual (let's call him O)
> >wanted to make a private eruv for the building, but had some concerns
> >about whether another individual (let's call him A) was shomer shabbos.
> >I told him that I don't know, I know that A considers himself shomer
> >shabbos, even though there are some things he does that I wouldn't do,
> >but I believe he's in a category of "Omer Mutar."
>
> So he's a shomer shabbos. Judge him accordingly.

Done and done.

> >Since I
> >have no relevant questions regarding A's Kashrus, etc., I've never
> >really considered the issue -- why bother?

I meant that I've never considered the exact details of his case to
decide if he's ne'eman. The halachos of mechalel shabbos k'goy, as
well as proper conduct for those involved in security forces are
things that I have some familiarity with (although I can't claim to be
extremely well versed in either).

<long quote snipped>

> How could some one like [MM added: A] this be a rasha? Shomer shabbos, keeps kashrus, etc?

One of the concerns was shmiras shabbos. As you pointed out, and as I
mentioned to O, his din certainly appears to be as a shomer shabbos.

-- Mike Miller
Ramat Bet Shemesh

> 1) Acharei (16:21) on "Beyad Ish Iti" it translates "Beyad gevar di 
>      mezamen min ishtakad".
>      Is there any source or reason (why) this person was arranged 
>      a year ago?
>   
eshtakad is a contraction of "sha'ata kadma", which I would translate as 
"previously".  It often means "last year" in context, but that's a 
derivative meaning.

David Riceman

Did Shlomo HaMelech lie when he proposed that the baby be cut?

The Gemara Shevuos 30 defines MidVar SheKer TirChok as misrepresenting that
two witnesses exist thereby inducing an admission, rather than presenting a
single witness which only requires that an oath be taken, and we are fairly
sure he will swear falsely. There is no suggestion that any testimony is
presented, the fake witness just comes along to BD and just by impression,
convinces the admission of the defendant.

 One would have thought this a fantastic outcome, no lies, false oaths and
true restitution. But we are wrong, this is bad, evil and sinful.

Now, how was the ploy utilised by Shlomo HaMelech any different? He
threatened to cut the baby thereby discovering the true mother.

 

meir

 

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*Jeremiah 32 -

"37* Behold, I will gather them out of all the countries, whither I have
driven them in Mine anger, and in My fury, and in great wrath; and I will
bring them back unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely;  *38
* and they shall be My people, and I will be their God;  *39* and I will
give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me for ever; for the
good of them, and of their children after them;"

According to the Kuntress Mima'aynei HaYeshuah, written by a son of a major
Talmid of the Vilna Gaon based on the teachings of the Gaon, on matters
related to the Geulah, the phrase "one heart" (in Passuk 39) means no
Litvish-Polish- Sefardic etc. internecine strife, and "one way" means no
variation of Minhagim between the various segments.

Apparently, this is part of the Messianic utopian vision. Until then...
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On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:12:45 +0000 Harry Maryles 
<hmaryles@yahoo.com> wrote:
>But IIRC when Fiddler on the Roof first came to the Chicago stage
>(the play, not the movie), Arie Crown Hebrew Day School used it as 
a
>fund raiser. Of course the subjet of Kol Isha came up. I can't say
>this for sure but I kind of remember that there was a Heter given 
by
>RAS (It was about 1966 so as I indicated my memory may be off.) 
>
>I believe the Heter was based on the fact that the faces of the 
women
>in the play could not be seen from the seats that were being sold 
by
>ACHDS and the sound heard was that of a microphone reproduction and
>not their actual voices. If that's true, it may be possible for 
this
>talented young lady to pursue a career in opera without violating
>Halacha.

Assuming your memory extends this far: do you recall is this was a 
heter to see the show, or to do the fund raiser?  IOW, to what 
extent was this a l'chatchila that a frum man should go to the 
show?  (I ask out of curiosity; the case at hand of the budding 
opera singer is really more like the fund raiser than the 
l'chatchila attendance, as far as the kol isha issue is concerned.)

--
Daniel M. Israel
dmi1@cornell.edu

 
 
From: "Chana Luntz" _chana@kolsassoon.org.uk_ 
(mailto:chana@kolsassoon.org.uk) 





R'n SP wrote:
> A former student of mine is a very successful budding opera
>  singer.  Although she knows that halacha does not permit kol 
> isha  in performance (even in the most lenient piskei halacha 
> that I'm aware  of, at least) [--old R'n SP]

In response, R'n CL wrote:




>>>>Sigh, rejected from Areivim again on the grounds that it  is more suited
to Avodah:
....assuming that there is no
issur on a non  Jewish men, why should a Jewish women not be able to earn
a living performing  for non Jewish men and women (knowing that no frum
Jewish man would be found  in an opera house). <<
 
>>>>>
But it would be OK for a woman to perform for a non-frum Jewish man, who  
might well be found in an opera house?   There are at least some  Jews living in 
every city in the world big enough to have an opera house, and  it's 
reasonable to assume that Jews -- being among the most cultured and  affluent people in 
every city -- will sometimes go to the opera.
 
If it's not OK for a Jewish man to hear a woman sing I don't know how it  can 
be OK for a Jewish woman to sing in a venue where there is a very high  
probability that at least one member of the audience is a Jewish man.
 
 
BTW Chana should not feel bad about having her post rejected by arvm and  
reposted to avodah, because here on Avodah the subject header is still  directly 
related to the substance of the posts, whereas on arvm the thread has  become 
increasingly divorced from its ostensible subject line.




--Toby  Katz
=============



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From: Harry Maryles <hmaryles@yahoo.com>
>>But IIRC when  Fiddler on the Roof first came to the Chicago stage
(the play, not the  movie), Arie Crown Hebrew Day School used it as a
fund raiser. ....
I  believe the Heter was based on the fact that the faces of the women
in the  play could not be seen from the seats that were being sold by
ACHDS and the  sound heard was that of a microphone reproduction and
not their actual  voices. If that's true, it may be possible for this
talented young lady to  pursue a career in opera without  violating
Halacha.<<

>>>>>
I think opera singers eschew the use of microphones and pride themselves  on 
being able to fill a  hall with their own natural voices -- but I could  be 
wrong about that.
 

However, as to being seen by male audience members -- how could she  ensure 
that all Jewish men would sit in the furthest-away seats and that only  women 
and non-Jews would occupy the front seats?  




--Toby  Katz
=============




************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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