Avodah Mailing List

Volume 04 : Number 064

Monday, October 25 1999

• Re: Yoatzot article
• Female learning and female worship
• Women's Roles
• Rabbi Yehuda Henkin speaks for himself
• OFF TOPIC - URGENT - Jewish girl needs home
• Re: Rabbi Yehuda Henkin speaks for himself
• Re: Yated/ Rabbi Yehuda Henkin speaks for himself
• Re: Rabbi Yehuda Henkin speaks for himself
• Re: Avodah V4 #63
• Chinuch Tuition
• Re: Avodah V4 #62
• Dr. Lamm's Position
• Re: Rashi -Bereshis 18:4

On 25 Oct 99, at 19:13, Akiva Atwood wrote:

Thanks for posting the article.

>        Jerusalem — “Chaya” is a religiously observant woman who after
> nine months of marriage failed to become pregnant. Concerned, she
> sought the advice of a gynecologist, who told her that her “window of
> opportunity” to conceive was between the 13th and 14th day after the
> start of her menstrual period.
> 
>       The problem was, Chaya — who, like many of the women interviewed
> for this article, spoke on condition of anonymity — still found traces
> of blood eight or nine days following the start of her cycle.
> According to Jewish ritual purity laws, women must wait an additional
> seven “clean” days after the end of their cycles before having
> relations with their husbands.
> 
>       By the time Chaya was halachically permitted to immerse herself
> in a mikveh and resume sexual relations, she no longer was ovulating.

This is not necessarily a halachic problem. The cycle can be 
shortened using herbs; there are two women in Yerushalayim that I 
know of who do this, but I know of them only because one of them 
is a close friend of Adina's (the other is the herbalist who gives 
women notes about bleeding from a wound rather than from the 
cervix). I am willing to bet that many of the poskim - even in 
Yerushalayim - do not know where women can go to get these 
types of herbs. If that is the type of advice the yoatzot are giving, 
then that is definitely not psak and is a service. 

If it is a halachic problem, the yoetzet could take the bedika cloths 
to a posek on behalf of a woman who is too embarassed to do so, 
again something we could all agree is permitted.

>       Although the Orthodox community has long held that women
> experiencing “female” problems must consult a rabbi, Chaya was
> extremely reluctant to do so.
> 
>       “My husband told me to go the rav,” she said in a phone
> interview, “but frankly I procrastinated. As much as I respect the
> rav, he is a man, and discussing such intimate issues with a man is
> terribly, terribly difficult.”
> 
>       Realizing that many Jewish women — perhaps most of them — would
> prefer to consult a woman on halachic matters related to menstruation,
> fertility and menopause, the Jerusalem-based Nishmat Center for
> Women’s Studies quietly launched a program in 1997 to train Orthodox
> women as halachic consultants.
> 
>       Two years later, eight graduate scholars are about to begin
> poskening, or ruling, on certain questions once reserved for rabbis.

This is inaccurate. For the time being, only two women have 
actually completed the program and taken the exams - the others 
have not taken the exams yet, and there is no guarantee they will 
pass (although I assume they will). My point being that this is not 
just a "course" which you take and graduate and magically 
become a posek afterwards. 

I also wonder if the woman who wrote the article understands the 
difference between paskening and simply repeating straight 
halacha, which so many of us have attempted to highlight on this 
list.

>       The move, according to Orthodox authorities, is nothing short of
> revolutionary. While Reform and Conservative women rabbis have made
> halachic rulings for many years, “this is the first time in history
> that [Orthodox] women have been authorized [by Orthodox rabbis] to
> answer questions in Jewish law,” according to Rabbanit Emunah Henkin,
> the director of Nishmat and the driving force behind the initiative.
> “This is quite remarkable.”

Note that Rebbetzin Henkin (whose first name is Chana as 
someone else pointed out today), used the term "answer 
questions" and not "decide halacha or "pasken halacha." 

>       Exactly what this “movement” is, and how far it will go, is open
> for debate. Some Modern Orthodox feminists hope the new halachic
> empowerment ultimately could lead to the ordination of women Orthodox
> rabbis.
> 
>       Others, like program graduate Deena Zimmerman, believe the
> consultant’s role in and of itself is daunting and important.
> 
>       “Could this lead to women being rabbis? That brings up the
> question of what is a full-fledged rabbi, and that question isn’t
> totally answered,” she said.
> 
>       “Could women be trained as rabbis in 20 years, starting from
> this model? Maybe, but that’s not the point of this program,”
> Zimmerman stressed.
> 
>       Nishmat’s goal, she says, “is to help women in the halachic
> process — to have women involved in the halachic process. That’s far
> more important than the title given to it.”

I note the separation between the OF "Agenda" ("women Rabbis") 
and Dr. Zimmerman who sees the role of yoetzet as important in 
itself. It doesn't sound to me like she shares the OF "Agenda." If 
the OF's plan to turn this into women Rabbis, they had better find 
some more willing candidates than Dr. Zimmerman.

>       Zimmerman, a New York-born pediatrician who moved to Israel a
> few years ago, says her new role is both exciting and unnerving.

>       Since graduating, Zimmerman says, women have consulted her on a
> wide range of issues. “I’ve had older women asking about hormone
> replacement therapy and menopause.” Younger women, she adds, “have
> questions concerning ovulation and fertility, as well as miscarriage.”

Again these could be health-related questions as much as halachic 
related questions. And there's nothing wrong with that. How many 
poskim have an understanding of women's biology that goes 
beyond what is basically needed to understand Hilchos Nidda? 

>       “If there is a question they can’t answer, they will consult a
> rabbi on your behalf. They are able to do so because they speak 
the
> same technical language as rabbis and are familiar with all the
> responsa and halachic fine points,” she says. “They bring 
suggestions
> before the rabbis, and the rabbis have even begun referring 
women to
> them.”

If the yoatzot are willing to act as "advocates" in front of a posek, I 
don't see what is wrong with that. There is nothing wrong AFAIK 
with someone going to a posek and asking a shaila and saying, 
"but why can't you allow them to do x based on so and so's shita." 
The question strikes me as fair and legitimate. That's how I 
interpret Rebbetzin Henkin's reference to "suggestions." I am sure 
that the average woman does not feel comfortable making those 
kinds of "suggestions" to a posek, and the average man (whose 
course in Hilchos Nidda probably spends more time on harchokos 
than anything else) probably doesn't either.

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:csherer@netvision.net.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

The following was copied from the Machon Meir (Jeruasalem) Parshat Hashavua
for Lech Lecha. (www.machonmeir.org.il).  I would appreciate any comments
from both men and women.:

I would also love to here some comments on Rav Dov Bigon's article in the
same place.

Shoshana Boublil

=========================
Whatever One's Heart Desires
Rabbi Shlomo Aviner
Question: Before I got married, I studied a great deal, chiefly Torah
studies. Now, since getting married, it is very hard for me to feel an
attachment to housework, and I often find myself engrossed in study rather
than in the tasks that need doing. What should I do?

Answer: First of all, everybody has to do what his spirit is inclined to do,
and a woman inclined to spirituality must involve herself chiefly in
spiritual works, and must relegate her workaday tasks to a lesser level of
importance. Obviously, however, there are compelling circumstances in life.
One has to cook and clean, and one has to bathe the children. Everybody has
mitzvot that are pleasant for him and others that are less so, yet we said
regarding them all, "All that G-d has declared, we will do and obey" (Exodus
24:7). Essentially, they are all pleasant, since they are G-d's will, and
doing G-d's will is the most pleasant thing there is.
Let it be stated clearly: The need to "feel an attachment" or to "get into
the flow" of housework is entirely secondary. We are not serving G-d in
order to feel attachments or to attain satisfaction, but in order to fulfill
His will. While indeed it is fitting that one should feel a wonderful
feeling when one serves G-d, it is secondary all the same. The main thing is
to do His will, whether we feel holiness or we feel nothing.
Quite the contrary, this situation, of a person who serves G-d and does not
feel any contentment, has the special value of allowing one to serve G-d
sincerely. When someone "feels an attachment and gets into the flow," he
might ask whether he is serving G-d for the sake of his own personal
happiness or for the sake of G-d's will. Therefore, G-d, in His benevolence,
sometimes arranges for the removal of one's happiness and enthusiasm, both
as a trial, and to guide him through a transition, so that he can become
more sincere and climb to a higher level of serving G-d.
We have to understand that our task is to sanctify G-d's name from the
lowliness of this earth. The Torah was not given to the ministering angels
but to man, in order that he should fulfill: "We will sanctify Your name in
the world even as they sanctify it in the highest heavens."
It is precisely learned, spiritual women who can feel great contentment from
fulfilling practical household duties, knowing what a great light of
kindness is hidden within these simple tasks. To what great lengths the
Torah goes to describe Abraham's kind deeds and his enormous eagerness to
perform them! Abraham did so because he felt the supreme light within them.
When the guests came, he took care of them and told G-d, "Master, please do
not go away!" (Genesis 18:3). Our sages deduce from here that hospitality is
greater than greeting the Divine Presence. The Maharal concludes that
hospitality and greeting the Divine Presence are not two disparate goals.
Rather, the former constitutes the latter. In the same way, the Divine
Presence rests upon all the mitzvot involving kindness performed by the
woman in her home.

Here are 3 POVS' female leadership roles:

Kol Kvuda:
This is the RW model.  WTG's and/or Yoatzos are "kosher" only up until they 
became highly publicised. Once they are a cause celebre, they are "ipso facto" 
possul.

Zochor uN'keivo Boro Osam:
This is the total egalitarian model as espoused by Reform and Conservatives. 
essentially, any role a man can assume is ok for a woman, too.

Bocurim v'gam Besulos
This is my favorite.  Separate but equal.  Women can take leadership roles on 
behalf of other women, but they should not be taking leadership roles in front 
of men in order not to violate kol kvudo.  So Yoatzos are  ok, or even desirable
in that they minimze the need for women to consult men, especially wrt to highly
sensitive feminine internal issues <yes it's a pun> such as ThM.  Miriam 
haN'vioh exemplified this when singing shiro for the women as a separate entity.

Rich Wolpoe

I received the following letter which I share with you:

Dear Rabbi Dratch,
    Following is a letter I sent to Yated Ne'eman. I would appreciate if you 
would post it on the Aishdas Avodah site ... 
    Thank you.
                                               YHH
       



                    Bs”d, 15 Marcheshvan 5760

Editor
Yated Neeman USA

Shalom,

    This afternoon an acquaintance faxed me two articles from the 
English-language Yated Ne’eman e-mail version. The first was from April 22, 
1999 (no Hebrew date listed) by Rabbi Doniel Neustadt on halachos of 
mechitzah in shul. I was pleased to see that the article noted my Teshuvos 
Bnei Banim, volume 1, nos. 1-3 where I explicated the views of my 
grandfather, R. Yosef Eliyahu Henkin z”l. My grandfather ruled that a 
mechitzah in shul must have the properties of havdalas reshus. This can 
occasionally have a tzad lekula to it, and indeed my grandfather (and others) 
relied on it lehakel beshaas dechak gadol. But my own intention was to bring 
it lechumra, e.g., to show that a hanging curtain, even one which stretches 
from ceiling to floor and prevents looking entirely, nevertheless, if not 
tied down at the bottom does not have the din of havdalas reshus and is not a 
kosher mechitzah. Historically, at the Simchas Beis haShoevah in the Beis 
haMikdash and in all synagogues known to us through the ages, men and women 
were always each in a separate reshus, and who is permitted to say that that 
aspect of mechitzah can be ignored? And see my Teshuvos Bnei Banim, volume 2, 
nos. 12-13.  
    
    I was considerably less pleased by the second article, from this past 
week’s issue, which included the following paragraph:

More evidence of Nishmat's double-talk is evident in a bizarre statement made 
by [Mrs.] Henkin's husband, Yehuda: "The net result of authorizing women 
consultants [that word again] will be a quantum jump in mitzvah observance. 
Halacha has no objection to women making decisions, if they are competent. 
This is well grounded. A learned woman has as much of a right to issue a 
ruling as a learned man."   

    I must admit it felt strange, after years as a rav and after writing 
three volumes of teshuvos plus other sefarim, to suddenly be referred to as 
“Yehuda.” Zilzul talmudei chachamim is asur regardless of circumstances. 

    As for the facts of the matter, your correspondent quoted me very 
partially, copying only the last of three paragraphs from a report he read in 
the NY Jewish Week. The report said:

Rabbi Henkin, who has supported his wife’s endeavor from its inception, says 
the need for women consultants is well established.  “Any rabbi who has been 
in the field is astonished and troubled by the miniscule number of questions 
addressed to him in the area of taharat hamishpacha. And this is in a 
community of tens, hundreds, even thousands of women,” he says.  “You have 
to wonder what is going on. The answer is that the questions aren’t being 
asked.”

 Consequently, he says, many women do not seek outside advice and wrongly 
interpret ‘benign’ staining or discharges as menstrual bleeding and 
needlessly refrain from relations with their husbands.

The net result of authorizing women consultants “will be a quantum jump in 
observance in this area,” the rabbi predicts. “Halacha has no objection to 
women making decisions, if they are competent. This is well grounded. A 
learned woman has as much of a right to issue a ruling as a learned man."

    The entire context of the last paragraph, a context which your 
correspondent completely omitted, is the alarming reticence of women to ask 
she’elos in taharas hamishpacha, a reticence which leads to unwarranted 
personal chumros in the best of cases, and in the worst of cases contributes 
to not observing taharas hamishpacha properly or at all, chalilah. And while 
the problem exists mainly within the modern Orthodox or traditional Sephardic 
communities—v’lav milsa zutrasa hi, we are speaking of thousands and 
thousands of observant women—it is by no means limited to them, nor to 
communities in Eretz Israel.

    The question is what to do about the problem. Aside from platitudes about 
the fact that women shouldn’t be reticent about turning to a rav on such 
matters—of course they shouldn’t be, but they are!— the most effective way 
of solving it is by training women halachic consultants in the field of 
taharas hamishpacha. That’s all. No “women rabbis,” no “Reform and 
Conservative” inroads.

    That is my opinion and the opinion of many rabbis who answer she’elos in 
hilchos nidah, particularly among local rabbis here in Israel. Others 
disagree, some vehemently. In this regard, as far as I know the Jewish Week 
writer did not turn to R. Aharon Feldman in order “to make him sound 
partially supportive of the Nishmat program.” The writer asked me for the 
name of someone who opposed the program, so that for balance she could also 
print an opinion different from my own. I suggested that she ask R. Feldman, 
under the assumption that he would be opposed.  I respect R. Feldman’s 
opinion as a rosh yeshiva but I strongly disagree with him, particularly with 
his view that the problem I described above is not a serious one.  

    One final comment, among many remaining to be made. The Jewish Week 
article is full of mistakes, starting from getting my wife’s first name wrong 
(copied by your correspondent) and Rav Warhaftig’s first name wrong (here 
your correspondent knew enough to correct it), and culminating in the quote 
from R. Feldman that your correspondent insists was completely distorted.

    However, your correspondent did not consider the possibility that other 
quotes in the Jewish Week report were also garbled, not just the one from R. 
Feldman. Specifically, my wife never said that the graduates of the two-year 
Nishmat program "are at least as well versed in the intricacies of ritual 
purity laws as many rabbinic poseks." “Poseks” is a Jewish Week barbarism 
she would never use, but more importantly, she well knows not to confuse a 
posek with even an ordinary rav. Her graduates are taught to work in 
cooperation with a rav and not to pasken on their own. What she did say was 
that the graduates knew hilchos niddah as well as do many new semichah 
graduates. This happens to be true, as the women learned exactly the same 
syllabus in gemara Niddah and hilchos niddah as taught in many kollelim.

    My observation that  “Halacha has no objection to women making decisions, 
if they are competent…. A learned woman has as much of a right to issue a 
ruling as a learned man" also happens to be halachically true: see Birchei 
Yosef to Choshen Mishpat 7:12 and Minchas Chinuch 78. The controversy is not 
over that, but is, or should be, over the best way to deal with a serious 
problem in taharas hamishpacha in many communities today.

            With Torah Greetings,


                    Rabbi Yehuda Henkin

I have been asked to forward this message.

-- Carl

This message was copied and forwarded from the Jewish parenting group.

>>Subject: [SCJ-PARENTING:4449] Jewish 2yo with CP needs adoptive family
From: "MINDY R ELLIOTT-ADELMAN" <MINDYE@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:47:34 EDT

There is a Jewish little girl in need of a very special home... She is two
years old with Cerebral Palsy.  She is severely disabled and will need a
lot
of love and attention and care for the rest of her life.  If you think you
might be the parents for this little girl, please email MindyE@prodigy.net
or call 888-517-7035, Adoption and Pregnancy Support  Services.

Please forward this message to all Jewish groups, and please print in your
synagogue newsletters and make announcements at Jewish services and
meetings!

This Jewish little girl needs a home!
Mindy Elliott-Adelman


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:csherer@netvision.net.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

Having written several letters to the Yated Nee'man on various issues, I am
sure that this one, despite it's high quality will not be published.


DANIEL B. SCHWARTZ, ESQ. SPECIALIZING IN ALL ASPECTS
OF MATRIMONIAL, FAMILY AND COMMERCIAL LITIGATION FOR
FURTHER INFORMATION INQUIRE AT:
SCHWARTZESQ@WORLDNET.ATT.NET
----- Original Message -----
From: <MSDratch@aol.com>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 2:46 PM
Subject: Rabbi Yehuda Henkin speaks for himself


I received the following letter which I share with you:

Dear Rabbi Dratch,
    Following is a letter I sent to Yated Ne'eman. I would appreciate if you
would post it on the Aishdas Avodah site ...
    Thank you.
                                               YHH




                    Bs”d, 15 Marcheshvan 5760

Editor
Yated Neeman USA

Shalom,

    This afternoon an acquaintance faxed me two articles from the
English-language Yated Ne’eman e-mail version. The first was from April 22,
1999 (no Hebrew date listed) by Rabbi Doniel Neustadt on halachos of
mechitzah in shul. I was pleased to see that the article noted my Teshuvos
Bnei Banim, volume 1, nos. 1-3 where I explicated the views of my
grandfather, R. Yosef Eliyahu Henkin z”l. My grandfather ruled that a
mechitzah in shul must have the properties of havdalas reshus. This can
occasionally have a tzad lekula to it, and indeed my grandfather (and
others)
relied on it lehakel beshaas dechak gadol. But my own intention was to bring
it lechumra, e.g., to show that a hanging curtain, even one which stretches
from ceiling to floor and prevents looking entirely, nevertheless, if not
tied down at the bottom does not have the din of havdalas reshus and is not
a
kosher mechitzah. Historically, at the Simchas Beis haShoevah in the Beis
haMikdash and in all synagogues known to us through the ages, men and women
were always each in a separate reshus, and who is permitted to say that that
aspect of mechitzah can be ignored? And see my Teshuvos Bnei Banim, volume
2,
nos. 12-13.

    I was considerably less pleased by the second article, from this past
week’s issue, which included the following paragraph:

More evidence of Nishmat's double-talk is evident in a bizarre statement
made
by [Mrs.] Henkin's husband, Yehuda: "The net result of authorizing women
consultants [that word again] will be a quantum jump in mitzvah observance.
Halacha has no objection to women making decisions, if they are competent.
This is well grounded. A learned woman has as much of a right to issue a
ruling as a learned man."

    I must admit it felt strange, after years as a rav and after writing
three volumes of teshuvos plus other sefarim, to suddenly be referred to as
“Yehuda.” Zilzul talmudei chachamim is asur regardless of circumstances.

    As for the facts of the matter, your correspondent quoted me very
partially, copying only the last of three paragraphs from a report he read
in
the NY Jewish Week. The report said:

Rabbi Henkin, who has supported his wife’s endeavor from its inception, says
the need for women consultants is well established.  “Any rabbi who has been
in the field is astonished and troubled by the miniscule number of questions
addressed to him in the area of taharat hamishpacha. And this is in a
community of tens, hundreds, even thousands of women,” he says.  “You have
to wonder what is going on. The answer is that the questions aren’t being
asked.”

 Consequently, he says, many women do not seek outside advice and wrongly
interpret ‘benign’ staining or discharges as menstrual bleeding and
needlessly refrain from relations with their husbands.

The net result of authorizing women consultants “will be a quantum jump in
observance in this area,” the rabbi predicts. “Halacha has no objection to
women making decisions, if they are competent. This is well grounded. A
learned woman has as much of a right to issue a ruling as a learned man."

    The entire context of the last paragraph, a context which your
correspondent completely omitted, is the alarming reticence of women to ask
she’elos in taharas hamishpacha, a reticence which leads to unwarranted
personal chumros in the best of cases, and in the worst of cases contributes
to not observing taharas hamishpacha properly or at all, chalilah. And while
the problem exists mainly within the modern Orthodox or traditional
Sephardic
communities—v’lav milsa zutrasa hi, we are speaking of thousands and
thousands of observant women—it is by no means limited to them, nor to
communities in Eretz Israel.

    The question is what to do about the problem. Aside from platitudes
about
the fact that women shouldn’t be reticent about turning to a rav on such
matters—of course they shouldn’t be, but they are!— the most effective way
of solving it is by training women halachic consultants in the field of
taharas hamishpacha. That’s all. No “women rabbis,” no “Reform and
Conservative” inroads.

    That is my opinion and the opinion of many rabbis who answer she’elos in
hilchos nidah, particularly among local rabbis here in Israel. Others
disagree, some vehemently. In this regard, as far as I know the Jewish Week
writer did not turn to R. Aharon Feldman in order “to make him sound
partially supportive of the Nishmat program.” The writer asked me for the
name of someone who opposed the program, so that for balance she could also
print an opinion different from my own. I suggested that she ask R. Feldman,
under the assumption that he would be opposed.  I respect R. Feldman’s
opinion as a rosh yeshiva but I strongly disagree with him, particularly
with
his view that the problem I described above is not a serious one.

    One final comment, among many remaining to be made. The Jewish Week
article is full of mistakes, starting from getting my wife’s first name
wrong
(copied by your correspondent) and Rav Warhaftig’s first name wrong (here
your correspondent knew enough to correct it), and culminating in the quote
from R. Feldman that your correspondent insists was completely distorted.

    However, your correspondent did not consider the possibility that other
quotes in the Jewish Week report were also garbled, not just the one from R.
Feldman. Specifically, my wife never said that the graduates of the two-year
Nishmat program "are at least as well versed in the intricacies of ritual
purity laws as many rabbinic poseks." “Poseks” is a Jewish Week barbarism
she would never use, but more importantly, she well knows not to confuse a
posek with even an ordinary rav. Her graduates are taught to work in
cooperation with a rav and not to pasken on their own. What she did say was
that the graduates knew hilchos niddah as well as do many new semichah
graduates. This happens to be true, as the women learned exactly the same
syllabus in gemara Niddah and hilchos niddah as taught in many kollelim.

    My observation that  “Halacha has no objection to women making
decisions,
if they are competent…. A learned woman has as much of a right to issue a
ruling as a learned man" also happens to be halachically true: see Birchei
Yosef to Choshen Mishpat 7:12 and Minchas Chinuch 78. The controversy is not
over that, but is, or should be, over the best way to deal with a serious
problem in taharas hamishpacha in many communities today.

            With Torah Greetings,


                    Rabbi Yehuda Henkin

It seems to me that the Yated writer based himself strictly on the
Jewish Week article, without doing his own interviewing of the people
involved.  (Will the person in touch with the Yated writer confirm
this?)  I infer this from the fact that he made the same mistake as
to Rabbanit Henkin's first name (Channah, not Emunah) and that he
selectively quoted from the Jewish Week article.  As a result, the
information he based himself on was tainted by the pro-feminist bias
of the Jewish Week writer.  If only he had made the effort to get
first hand information!

=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

--- "Daniel B. Schwartz" <SCHWARTZESQ@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> wrote:
> Having written several letters to the Yated Nee'man on various
> issues, I am
> sure that this one, despite it's high quality will not be
> published.
> 
> 

Quite possibly, you're right.  Nevertheless, if Yated receives many
letters on this issue, this may influence how it chooses to deal with
these sorts of issues in the future.

Kol tuv,
Moshe

=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Meir Shinnar, in his recent post says of my article that it contains
"significant distortions (?lies) where published (e. g., the statement that
they advocated using the Conservative siddur, when all they did was xerox
the nekeva form of the mi sheberach..).  What I did was to quote a
discussion leader as saying that her group had gone so far as to xerox pages
from the Conservative siddur.  By the way, the mi sheberach changes more
than just the gender.  Was I exagerating the amount of of copying?  Possiby.
Was I unfairly inferring that the women's tefilah movement was getting some
of its inspiration from the Conservative movement?  After monitoring the WTN
discussion list, I do not think so.  As to other "distortions" or "lies" in
June of 1998, R. Aryeh Frimer posted a request on the WTN list for specific
examples of distortions, misquotes, or quotations out of context in my
article.  It is now 16 months later, and not one participant responded.
(There was one comment about the 1997 article which was basically R. Nisson
Wolpin's work; that comment was printed by the JO).

FWIW, when I was growing up in Hartford, parents who could not afford {full} 
tuition did volunteer work at our Day School.  They didn't teach, rathey they  
worked either in the kitchen or helped stuff envelopes in the office, etc. It 
was sort of a barter arrangement.

Rich Wolpoe

 former.  Thus I would think that they would call their publication 
> Yoseid or some such rather than the very modern israeli-sepharadi style
> transliteration adopted.
	Do you also feel that all non-"zionist/hascoloh/modernizing" type people
should speak Ivrisss?  I agree with you on the Jewish Press,  disagree on
the Jewish Observer,  and suggest that keeping a sefer in one's pocket
will obviate the need to peruse the checkout counter tabloids.  Your
suggestion of "Yoseid" however,  I consider a little silly.  Sorry.

Gershon

The recent postings from The Jewish Week and Yated Neeman have attributed 
certain positions to Rabbi Norman Lamm.  He is my father-in-law and I wish to 
set his position straight on this matter:


Rabbi Lamm never approved--nor did Nishmat claim--that the insitution was 
graduating "Poseks" (or "Rabbis.") That was an invention of the  Jewish Week
reporter. Nor was he one of the organizers or founders. He simply was
invited to speak because of his friendship with the late Moshe Green, z"l, 
(whom, it is true, he encouraged in his support of Nishmat) and he responded 
to Chana Henkin's request. He does not intend to have a "Women's Posek" 
program at YU, but YU is indeed thinking seriously of an advanced Talmud 
program for post-BA women.   He remains unmoved and unimpressed by the 
attacks.

Mark Dratch

I have a pshat that I think may work, with one stipulation: Rashi is quoting
Unkelus and should read "*Techos* Ilana" (not tachas).

If that is the case, efsher ken mir zogen azoi:

Considering Avrohom Avinu's great midda of Hachnosas Orchim, in the middle
of the desert where there is not much shade, AA might have stood over the
Malachim in lieu of a tree to provide them with shade. "Tachas" might mean
that, as indeed it does in Parashas Mishpatim in "Ayin tachas ayin". Rashi
means to preclude that interpretation of "tachas" (as "instead of") by
quoting Unkelus. In Mishpatim Unkelus translates "tachas" as "chalaf", but
here as "techos". Rashi means to quote Unkelus' translation here to stress
to us that here, indeed, "tachas" does not mean "instead of" but "under
the".



----- Original Message -----
From: <Yzkd@aol.com>
To: <avodah@aishdas.org>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Rashi -Bereshis 18:4


> In a message dated 10/24/99 10:38:22 PM EST, millerr@mail.biu.ac.il
writes:
>
> > Can anyone help me with the above Rashi
> >
> >  We know that etz=elan
> >
> >  I saw the Sifsay Chachomim but it seems dachuk.
> >
> Perhaps, here Rashi needs to specify, as we just learned that Avrohom
Avinu
> told them to wash their feet as he didn't want A"Z in his "house," that
might
> imply that they were brought into the house, and Eitz would refer to a
piece
> of wood in the house/tent.
>
> Kol Tuv
>
> Yitzchok Zirkind
>

********************


[ Distributed to the Avodah mailing list, digested version.                   ]
[ To post: mail to avodah@aishdas.org                                         ]
[ For back issues: mail "get avodah-digest vXX.nYYY" to majordomo@aishdas.org ]
[ or, the archive can be found at http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/              ]
[ For general requests: mail the word "help" to majordomo@aishdas.org         ]