Avodah Mailing List

Volume 03 : Number 061

Sunday, May 23 1999

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Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:06:36 +0300 (IDT)
From: Eli Turkel <turkel@math.tau.ac.il>
Subject:
[none]


Subject: israeli elections

   Working in Tel Aviv University, one of the bastions of secularism
and anti-dati feelings in israel I wanted to give the readers an idea
of the depth of hatred that exists here and there reasons.

Please NO FLAMES these are not my opinions and I am currently involved
in a nasty fight against the anti-shas crowd here. I present their side
for information only not because I agree with it.

Furthermore, in a panel session of advertising specialists on election
eve the charedi representative admitted that from the PR viewpoint the
recent activities of the charedim have been a disaster.
The general push of the chardei political parties is what would be
described as power politics. They get things done by threatening to
resign from a narrow coalition - not by trying to justify their demands.
All israelis are used to the fact that the budget demands are not discussed
all year round based on their needs but are presented the last night before
the vote with the statement either we get what we demand or the government 
falls. Similarly, Netanyahu announced a compromize on the Reform issue
only to publically retract the next day after receiving threats to bring down
the government.

I further stress that these issues have been discussed ad nauseum
in the Israeli press as has the statement that Charedim lied at exit
polls as so there is no question of lashon hara.

1. The biggest fight I get is about budgets for yeshivot, kollelim
   and various fictitious instituitons.
   There complaints fall into 2 categories

   a) basic - why should the State pay for ten of thousands of people
   to sit and learn. If it is important enough they should do it on
   their own. Most would not object to certain top students being funded
   but why everyone who wants?

   b) practical - The budget is finite. Every shekel paid to a kollel
   comes from other budgets. The health system is a disaster and 
   Netanyahu kept on insisting their was no money to fix it. Same thing
   for roads etc. A touchy topic on campus is university fees - why
   should university students who went through the army have to pay
   while kollel boys who did not serve get a stipend?

2. Army service - My personal opinion is that this is less of an issue
   then it seems. Very few secularists really want to see thousands of
   charedim in the army. There are already complaints of too many
   kipot serugot in the officer corp and the last thing they really
   want are charedi officers. The one Charedi nachal group that exists
   has all sorts of special "deals" and the army is not anxious to expand it.

   On the other hand some rabbanim (according to reports lead by R. S.
   Auerbach) are fighting to eliminate the concept of the charedi nachal.
   How this squares with the push of army service for charedim is another
   PR problem. It is especially acute since Shas does not see this as
   a fighting issue.

3. Reform/Conservative movements - Again this is not an issue that concerns
   the Israeli on the street - It is one that Meretz pushes.
   On the other hand it seems clear that some sort of compromize along
   the Neeman commission will this time be approved.
   

4. Supreme Court
   Again within the campus this is a hot issue. There was a conference
   in Tel Aviv University several months ago including many major law
   professors and other public people. Almost all agreed that the
   Supremem Court was too activist and had gone well beyond its bounds.
   On the other hand each started his speech that he disagreed with
   the charedi approach. Again it comes down to PR. When R Ovadiah
   Yosef talks he calls the judges names. It has become a fight of
   Charedim versus the court rather than specifics that the court is
   wrong. The end result is that all secularists whether they agree or
   not are forced to defend the court even when they dont want to.

5. Religious laws - this has almost become a nonissue as the charedim
   have basically lost. The shops are open on shabbat. The one change will
   be to legitimize it.

   Other minor irritants to the chilonim are symbols like the Agudah
minister being a vice-minister rather a minister. In the unlikely
cicumstance that Agudah (yahadut haTorah) enters the coalition and get a
ministerial position I can guarantee that Barak will not agree to this
game.

I again plead that I not receive flames as these do not represent my
personal beliefs. I am already getting enough flames within the university
for objecting to the anti-shas campaign of hate being waged here.

Kol Tuv,
Eli Turkel


Go to top.

Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 08:49:11 EDT
From: Joelirich@aol.com
Subject:
Fwd: Yeshivat har etzion-virtual bet medrash-Summer Session 5759


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A List of shiurim follows- delete if you're not interested but I thought some 
might not be aware of this valuable resource

Kol Tuv,
Joel Rich


n a message dated 5/23/99 7:00:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
office@etzion.org.il writes:

<< Dear Subscriber,
 
 This  week is inter-session in the VBM.  The summer session
 will begin next week.
 
 
 NEW COURSES FOR THE SUMMER:
 
 YHE-Kings
 Jewish Political Theory, by Rav Mosheh Lichtenstein.
 This is a repeat of the shiur offered in 97-98.
 
 
 NEW SESSIONS FOR EXISTING COURSES:
 We will begin new sessions - starting from the introductory
 shiur - for the following courses:
 
 YHE-Develop
      Developing  a  Torah Personality, Coordinated  by  Rav
 Ronnie Ziegler.
 
 YHE-18
      The Meaning of the Shemona Esrei, by Rav Ezra Bick.
 
 THOSE  WHO ARE ALREADY SUBSCRIBED TO YHE-18 AND 
 YHE-DEVELOP NEED  NOT  DO ANYTHING; THE COURSE 
 WILL RECOMMENCE  IN  THE FALL.
 
 
 WE ARE CONTINUING THE FOLLOWING SHIURIM 
 THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER:
 
 YHE-Parsha
 YHE-Intparsha
 YHE-Pesachim
 YHE-Bavakama
 YHE-Shabbat
 YHE-Sichot
 YHE-Kitzur
 
 
 This is a good time to recommend the VBM to your friends or
 find  a virtual chavruta (study-partner).  Please send this
 announcement to someone who has not yet had the opportunity
 to join in our international Torah community.
 
 
 Subscription Instructions:
 1.   An automatic webform is available. Please see
   http://www.vbm-torah.org/howto.htm
   
 2.   By e-mail
   Write to lists@vbm-torah.org
   
   [that's L I S T S]
   
   with the message
   
   subscribe <listname>
   
   Example:  To  subscribe to yhe-kings, send  the  message:
   subscribe yhe-kings
   
   
 A full description of our shiurim follows:
 
 TORAH TEXT STUDY:
 
 PARASHAT HASHAVUA - THE WEEKLY TORAH PORTION
 List name: YHE-Parsha
 Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
 Coordinator: R. Ezra Bick
       An  analysis of the parasha, incorporating innovative
 approaches as well as traditional commentaries.  The course
 has  an associated moderated discussion list - YHE-Par.D  -
 for  comments,  questions, and discussion  of  each  shiur.
 This list must be subscribed to separately.
 
 INTRODUCTION TO PARASHAT HASHAVUA
 List name: YHE-IntParsha
 Instructors: R. Jonathan Mishkin and R. Alex Israel
       A  weekly  examination of selected  portions  of  the
 week's Torah reading with an emphasis on understanding  the
 textual problems and the underlying meaning.  The course is
 geared for beginners but is open to all levels.
 
 THEMES AND STRUCTURE IN PARASHAT HASHAVUA
 List name: YHE-Parsha.ML
 Instructor: R. Menachem Leibtag
       A  revised version of our original Parashat Ha-shavua
 series,  with  special attention to issues of structure  in
 parshiot and the overall theme of each sefer.
 
 TEHILLIM - THE BOOK OF PSALMS
 List name: YHE-Tehillim
 Instructor: R. Avi Baumol
       Each  installment in this series attempts to  examine
 the  thematic unity and literary techniques of one  mizmor.
 Its  goal  is to present a message embedded in  each  psalm
 which  can  help  us understand our relationship  with  our
 Creator.
 
 TALMUDIC METHODOLOGY
 List name: YHE-Metho
 Instructor: R. Moshe Taragin
       A shiur using a different talmudic topic each week to
 illustrate   the   nature  of  rabbinic   legal   thinking,
 emphasizing  the  analytic  methods  practiced  in   modern
 Yeshivot.
 
 GEMARA PESACHIM
 List name: YHE-Pesachim
 Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
 Coordinator: R. Yair Kahn
       Designed  for students studying Talmud on their  own,
 devoting  a number of hours a week, the shiur will  include
 sources,  assistance  in preparation  and  a  yeshiva-level
 analysis  of  what  has been learned during  the  week.   A
 faculty member is available for questions.  Level: Beginner
 
 GEMARA BAVA KAMA
 List name: YHE-BavaKama
 Instructors: R. Moshe Taragin
       Designed  for students studying Talmud on their  own,
 devoting  a number of hours a week, the shiur will  include
 sources  for  preparation and a yeshiva-level  analysis  of
 what has been learned during the week.  A faculty member is
 available for questions.  Level: Advanced
 
 TOPICS IN HALAKHA
 List name: YHE-Halak
 Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
 Coordinator: R. Mordechai Friedman
       A weekly shiur analyzing a specific halakhic question
 or a broad halakhic topic.
 
 MISHNA BERURA
 List name: YHE-MB
 Instructor: R. Asher Meir
       Designed  for  students who  wish  to  study  Halakha
 independently, devoting a number of hours a week, the shiur
 accompanies  the  study of the Mishna Berura  by  providing
 background,  explanations, expansion of select points,  and
 applications to new questions.
 
 THE LAWS OF SHABBAT
 List name:  YHE-Shabbat
 Instructor: R. Doniel Schreiber
        Guided   introduction  to  the  laws   of   Shabbat,
 emphasizing    practical   ramifications   together    with
 understanding the underlying principles. This  series  will
 cover  the  39  categories of forbidden labor  as  well  as
 positive commandments such as kiddush, candlelighting,  and
 meals. Appropriate for veteran Shabbat observers as well as
 newcomers.
 
 JEWISH POLITICAL THEORY: HILKHOT MELAKHIM
 List name: YHE-Kings
 Instructor: R. Mosheh Lichtenstein
      An investigation of the ideal Jewish political system,
 focusing  on  the  Biblical and Talmudic debates,  medieval
 halakha  and  philosophy,  and  questions  surrounding  the
 establishment of the State of Israel.
 
 SICHOT OF THE ROSHEI YESHIVA
 List name: YHE-Sichot
 Instructors:   Harav  Yehuda  Amital   and   Harav   Aharon
 Lichtenstein
 Coordinator: R. Ronnie Ziegler
      Addresses (sichot) on the weekly parasha by the Roshei
 Yeshiva   of  Yeshivat  Har  Etzion.  The  sichot   examine
 fundamental  principles of Judaism  and  issues  of  modern
 Jewish  society,  and  their  application  to  daily  life.
 (Repeat from 1996).
 
 DEVELOPING A TORAH PERSONALITY
 List name: YHE-Develop
 Instructor: HaRav Aharon Lichtenstein
 Adapted by: R. Ronnie Ziegler
      Addresses by one of the intellectual leaders of Modern
 Orthodoxy,  dealing  with a variety of  fundamental  issues
 such  as:  religion  and  ethics,  faith,  contributing  to
 society, secular studies, the concept of commandment, Torah
 study,  repentance, and determining objectives in spiritual
 growth.
 
 INTRODUCTION TO THE THOUGHT OF RAV J. B. SOLOVEITCHIK
 List name: YHE-Rav
 Instructor: R. Ronnie Ziegler
       An  analysis  of  the writings of  one  of  the  most
 creative  and  influential Jewish  thinkers  of  our  time.
 Topics  covered include the role of religion in the  modern
 world,   the  philosophy  of  Halakha,  man's  crisis   and
 redemption,  and  a deeper understanding of  such  familiar
 concepts as prayer, Torah study, repentance and Zionism.
 
 UNDERSTANDING THE PRACTICE AND MEANING OF HALAKHA
 List name: YHE-UndHalakha
 Instructor: R. Ezra Bick
       The  course  will  examine the practice  of  halakhic
 Judaism, explicating the meaning and significance of select
 laws,  such as Shabbat, prayer, kashrut, holidays, charity,
 etc.  Appropriate for all levels.
 
 THE MEANING OF SHEMONA ESREI
 List name: YHE-18
 Instructor: R. Ezra Bick
       The  course  will closely examine  the  text  of  the
 central  daily  prayer, the "Shemona Esrei,"  in  order  to
 extract  the  basic  philosophic  ideas  embedded  in  each
 section.
 
 MEANING IN MITZVOT
 List name: YHE-Kitzur
 Instructor: R. Asher Meir
      The  course  will follow the sequence of laws  in  the
 popular   halakhic  digest,  the  Kitzur  Shulchan   Aruch,
 explaining  the  inner  meaning  and  significance  of  the
 practices of daily Jewish observance.
 
 JEWISH PHILOSOPHY CONFRONTS THE MODERN WORLD
 List name: YHE-JewPhi
 Instructor: Prof. Shalom Rosenberg
       This  course analyzes major issues of modern  culture
 and   philosophy  against  the  backdrop  of   the   Jewish
 philosophical    tradition,    using    the    11th-century
 masterpiece,  The  Kuzari  of  R.  Yehuda  HaLevi,  as  its
 starting point.
 
 HOLIDAY SPECIALS
 List name: YHE-Holiday
 Coordinator: R. Ronnie Ziegler
       Special  packages sent out before each holiday,  with
 lectures  and  sichot  on various topics,  to  enhance  the
 appreciation of the holiday.
 
 
  >>


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From: office@etzion.org.il
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:18:39 +0300
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Subject: Summer Session 5759
Reply-to: office@etzion.org.il
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d)
X-ListMember: Joelirich@aol.com

Dear Subscriber,

This  week is inter-session in the VBM.  The summer session
will begin next week.


NEW COURSES FOR THE SUMMER:

YHE-Kings
Jewish Political Theory, by Rav Mosheh Lichtenstein.
This is a repeat of the shiur offered in 97-98.


NEW SESSIONS FOR EXISTING COURSES:
We will begin new sessions - starting from the introductory
shiur - for the following courses:

YHE-Develop
     Developing  a  Torah Personality, Coordinated  by  Rav
Ronnie Ziegler.

YHE-18
     The Meaning of the Shemona Esrei, by Rav Ezra Bick.

THOSE  WHO ARE ALREADY SUBSCRIBED TO YHE-18 AND 
YHE-DEVELOP NEED  NOT  DO ANYTHING; THE COURSE 
WILL RECOMMENCE  IN  THE FALL.


WE ARE CONTINUING THE FOLLOWING SHIURIM 
THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER:

YHE-Parsha
YHE-Intparsha
YHE-Pesachim
YHE-Bavakama
YHE-Shabbat
YHE-Sichot
YHE-Kitzur


This is a good time to recommend the VBM to your friends or
find  a virtual chavruta (study-partner).  Please send this
announcement to someone who has not yet had the opportunity
to join in our international Torah community.


Subscription Instructions:
1.   An automatic webform is available. Please see
  http://www.vbm-torah.org/howto.htm
  
2.   By e-mail
  Write to lists@vbm-torah.org
  
  [that's L I S T S]
  
  with the message
  
  subscribe <listname>
  
  Example:  To  subscribe to yhe-kings, send  the  message:
  subscribe yhe-kings
  
  
A full description of our shiurim follows:

TORAH TEXT STUDY:

PARASHAT HASHAVUA - THE WEEKLY TORAH PORTION
List name: YHE-Parsha
Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
Coordinator: R. Ezra Bick
      An  analysis of the parasha, incorporating innovative
approaches as well as traditional commentaries.  The course
has  an associated moderated discussion list - YHE-Par.D  -
for  comments,  questions, and discussion  of  each  shiur.
This list must be subscribed to separately.

INTRODUCTION TO PARASHAT HASHAVUA
List name: YHE-IntParsha
Instructors: R. Jonathan Mishkin and R. Alex Israel
      A  weekly  examination of selected  portions  of  the
week's Torah reading with an emphasis on understanding  the
textual problems and the underlying meaning.  The course is
geared for beginners but is open to all levels.

THEMES AND STRUCTURE IN PARASHAT HASHAVUA
List name: YHE-Parsha.ML
Instructor: R. Menachem Leibtag
      A  revised version of our original Parashat Ha-shavua
series,  with  special attention to issues of structure  in
parshiot and the overall theme of each sefer.

TEHILLIM - THE BOOK OF PSALMS
List name: YHE-Tehillim
Instructor: R. Avi Baumol
      Each  installment in this series attempts to  examine
the  thematic unity and literary techniques of one  mizmor.
Its  goal  is to present a message embedded in  each  psalm
which  can  help  us understand our relationship  with  our
Creator.

TALMUDIC METHODOLOGY
List name: YHE-Metho
Instructor: R. Moshe Taragin
      A shiur using a different talmudic topic each week to
illustrate   the   nature  of  rabbinic   legal   thinking,
emphasizing  the  analytic  methods  practiced  in   modern
Yeshivot.

GEMARA PESACHIM
List name: YHE-Pesachim
Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
Coordinator: R. Yair Kahn
      Designed  for students studying Talmud on their  own,
devoting  a number of hours a week, the shiur will  include
sources,  assistance  in preparation  and  a  yeshiva-level
analysis  of  what  has been learned during  the  week.   A
faculty member is available for questions.  Level: Beginner

GEMARA BAVA KAMA
List name: YHE-BavaKama
Instructors: R. Moshe Taragin
      Designed  for students studying Talmud on their  own,
devoting  a number of hours a week, the shiur will  include
sources  for  preparation and a yeshiva-level  analysis  of
what has been learned during the week.  A faculty member is
available for questions.  Level: Advanced

TOPICS IN HALAKHA
List name: YHE-Halak
Instructors: Yeshivat Har Etzion Faculty
Coordinator: R. Mordechai Friedman
      A weekly shiur analyzing a specific halakhic question
or a broad halakhic topic.

MISHNA BERURA
List name: YHE-MB
Instructor: R. Asher Meir
      Designed  for  students who  wish  to  study  Halakha
independently, devoting a number of hours a week, the shiur
accompanies  the  study of the Mishna Berura  by  providing
background,  explanations, expansion of select points,  and
applications to new questions.

THE LAWS OF SHABBAT
List name:  YHE-Shabbat
Instructor: R. Doniel Schreiber
       Guided   introduction  to  the  laws   of   Shabbat,
emphasizing    practical   ramifications   together    with
understanding the underlying principles. This  series  will
cover  the  39  categories of forbidden labor  as  well  as
positive commandments such as kiddush, candlelighting,  and
meals. Appropriate for veteran Shabbat observers as well as
newcomers.

JEWISH POLITICAL THEORY: HILKHOT MELAKHIM
List name: YHE-Kings
Instructor: R. Mosheh Lichtenstein
     An investigation of the ideal Jewish political system,
focusing  on  the  Biblical and Talmudic debates,  medieval
halakha  and  philosophy,  and  questions  surrounding  the
establishment of the State of Israel.

SICHOT OF THE ROSHEI YESHIVA
List name: YHE-Sichot
Instructors:   Harav  Yehuda  Amital   and   Harav   Aharon
Lichtenstein
Coordinator: R. Ronnie Ziegler
     Addresses (sichot) on the weekly parasha by the Roshei
Yeshiva   of  Yeshivat  Har  Etzion.  The  sichot   examine
fundamental  principles of Judaism  and  issues  of  modern
Jewish  society,  and  their  application  to  daily  life.
(Repeat from 1996).

DEVELOPING A TORAH PERSONALITY
List name: YHE-Develop
Instructor: HaRav Aharon Lichtenstein
Adapted by: R. Ronnie Ziegler
     Addresses by one of the intellectual leaders of Modern
Orthodoxy,  dealing  with a variety of  fundamental  issues
such  as:  religion  and  ethics,  faith,  contributing  to
society, secular studies, the concept of commandment, Torah
study,  repentance, and determining objectives in spiritual
growth.

INTRODUCTION TO THE THOUGHT OF RAV J. B. SOLOVEITCHIK
List name: YHE-Rav
Instructor: R. Ronnie Ziegler
      An  analysis  of  the writings of  one  of  the  most
creative  and  influential Jewish  thinkers  of  our  time.
Topics  covered include the role of religion in the  modern
world,   the  philosophy  of  Halakha,  man's  crisis   and
redemption,  and  a deeper understanding of  such  familiar
concepts as prayer, Torah study, repentance and Zionism.

UNDERSTANDING THE PRACTICE AND MEANING OF HALAKHA
List name: YHE-UndHalakha
Instructor: R. Ezra Bick
      The  course  will  examine the practice  of  halakhic
Judaism, explicating the meaning and significance of select
laws,  such as Shabbat, prayer, kashrut, holidays, charity,
etc.  Appropriate for all levels.

THE MEANING OF SHEMONA ESREI
List name: YHE-18
Instructor: R. Ezra Bick
      The  course  will closely examine  the  text  of  the
central  daily  prayer, the "Shemona Esrei,"  in  order  to
extract  the  basic  philosophic  ideas  embedded  in  each
section.

MEANING IN MITZVOT
List name: YHE-Kitzur
Instructor: R. Asher Meir
     The  course  will follow the sequence of laws  in  the
popular   halakhic  digest,  the  Kitzur  Shulchan   Aruch,
explaining  the  inner  meaning  and  significance  of  the
practices of daily Jewish observance.

JEWISH PHILOSOPHY CONFRONTS THE MODERN WORLD
List name: YHE-JewPhi
Instructor: Prof. Shalom Rosenberg
      This  course analyzes major issues of modern  culture
and   philosophy  against  the  backdrop  of   the   Jewish
philosophical    tradition,    using    the    11th-century
masterpiece,  The  Kuzari  of  R.  Yehuda  HaLevi,  as  its
starting point.

HOLIDAY SPECIALS
List name: YHE-Holiday
Coordinator: R. Ronnie Ziegler
      Special  packages sent out before each holiday,  with
lectures  and  sichot  on various topics,  to  enhance  the
appreciation of the holiday.



--part1_bf4def22.24795347_boundary--


Go to top.

Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:39:03 EDT
From: C1A1Brown@aol.com
Subject:
Ma'akeh


I few weeks ago the topic of ma'akeh was discussed on the list.  It is 
interesting that although a beit haknesset is patur from ma'akeh, the beit 
hamikdash had a ma'akeh of 3 amot (Middot 4:6).  Don't have a good hesber 
yet...

-CB


Go to top.

Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 14:20:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject:
Re: EUREKA! etc... (fwd)


From Remy Landau...

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 14:07:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Remy Landau <rlandau@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
To: "Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: EUREKA! etc...

Dear YGB,

The problem with your hypothesis is that it raises many unanswered 
questions which would have to be addressed in order to gain more 
acceptability.

Off the top of my head, is there any historical evidence to substantiate 
any known contact between the Jewish community(ies) of Palestine and 
China of 920g (4681H)?

Is there any historical evidence that Ben Meir had any knowledge of such 
communities in China?

It is known that medieval astronomers had difficulties measuring the 
distance between proximate points on the globe. In fact, Albiruni 
overestimates the distance between Bagdad and Jerusalem by as much as 11 
minutes. So how could a lesser astronomer, Ben Meir, possibly figure out 
the distance from Palestine to any point in China at that time?

These are significant hurdles in trying cope with the acceptability of 
the conclusions in your hypothesis. 

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\|
|/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Regards From  Remy  Landau /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|
|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Downsview, Ontario, Canada \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\|
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 15:48:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@ymail.yu.edu>
Subject:
R. Soloveitchik and Golda Meir


> 
> This reminds me of a quip quoted in the name of R. Soloveitchik.  After
> the election of Golda Meir as Prime Minister, some talmidim asked the
> Rav if this was assur to vote for her, on the basis of the halakahah of
> melekh, ve-lo malkah.  The Rav replied, "And it was muttar to vote for
> Ben Gurion?"

My own recollection of this incident: The question was raised in the
Gemara shiur, as we were learning the sugya in Yevamot about
qualifications for malkhut. Someone interjected as to how Mrs Meir could
serve as Prime Minister. The Rav responded that the same question would
apply to Ben Gurion and continued the shiur.


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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:27:33 -0400
From: "sweinr1@icarus.cc.uic.edu" <sweinr1@icarus.cc.uic.edu>
Subject:
hallel on Yom Haatzmaut


I would like to give Reb Moshe Feldman a yasher Koach on his wonderful post
regarding the history of Chanukah and its comparison to Yom Haatzmaut.  I
sometimes really learn new things from this list, and this is one great
example.  While I do not personally say hallel on the fifth of iyar, I do
believe that the debate should be based on intellectually and factually honest
arguments, not on sevaros shel shtus.  Your post has emphasized that in order
to claim something about a historical fact, one must first research to the best
of one's ability to determine if in fact this is the truth.  I'm not really
sure anymore why I don't say hallel on Yom Haatzmaut, because I used to use
many of the arguments you brought besheim Rav Ovadiah Yosef SHLITA.  Especially
when it comes to history this is difficult, but all the more necessary.

May HKB'H grant all of us the wisdom to base our decisions on the Emes.

-Shaul Weinreb



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